Stereoscopic 3D Thread

[Mister Royzo]

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Welcome to the Stereoscopic 3D thread. This is where we discuss using stereoscopic 3D in gaming, movies and software.
Feel free to discuss why it's great/crap, what hardware is best suited for it, what software is useful and what's particularly great to watch in 3D.

If you're interested in getting into 3D, feel free to ask questions about price, usage, compatibility, comfort, et cetera.

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Despite everyone with two working eyes having depth perception, not everyone knows how it actually works.

Seeing things in 3D is actually very simple. All you need is to see the same scene from two perspectives;
one slightly to the left (left eyeball), and one slightly to the right (right eyeball). From these two images,
your brain can piece together which objects are distant and which are close by.

All 3D technology revolves around getting a distinct image to each eye ball, of the same scene.
Some rely on showing each image in a contrasting color, and using tinted lenses to block out the opposite image (that would be Anaglyph 3D, whose workings are probably the most famous).

Another popular technique is to quickly show one image after the other, and block the eye it doesn't concern (that's the active shutter system, which has recently been made popular in cinemas and by NVidia)

Physicists might tell you that time is a dimension as well, and that therefore every video is automatically 3D. If any one of them ever does so, you're free to club them on the head, because they're snidey gits.
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Most of you who are seriously interested in 3D are probably interested in the kind of 3D effects you see at the movies.
Autostereoscopic devices exist (3D devices that don't require peripherals such as glasses, like the Nintendo 3DS),
but right now the devices that [i]do[/i] require glasses produce superior quality images.

There are many technologies out there, but the one I personally recommend out of experience is the [i]active shutter system[/i].
Those require glasses that very quickly block the right eye while the left perspective is shown, and the left eye when the other image is shown.

Because of this, the framerate you see is half the framerate that's actually produced. This is why most 3D monitors are 120Hz, because while most movies are shot in 24fps, most gamers won't be content until their space marines are blasted at their eyeballs at 60 frames per second.

Coincidentally, because half the time your eyes are being blocked by a black lens, you lose some of the brightness of your image. To counteract this,
NVidia developed Lightboost glasses that enhance the perceived brightness. If it's still too dark for you, you can always adjust gamma and contrast.

Please take note that these side-effects are only visible while you're wearing the glasses and 3D content is being displayed.

Here's what you need to get started with the active shutter system on your desktop PC:
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[b]A 3D Ready monitor[/b]
Mostly this means that it has a refresh rate of 120hz.

Look through the specifications to be sure it's 3D Ready.

For $300 - $400 you can find some really decent 1920x1080 monitors.
The one I have right now is a BenQ XL2420T (pictured to the right).
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[tr][td][/td][td][b]Shutter glasses[/b][/td][/tr]
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No, not the ones Kanye West wears. The ones that actually have a function
beyond making you look like a tosser.

You can get most shutter glasses for $100 - $200.

They need to be synchronized to your monitor and GPU, that's why NVidia produces a lot of 3D glasses. I myself have NVidia GPU's, and have subsequently chosen their 3D Vision 2 Wireless Glasses, but there are other brands available as well.
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[b]A decent GPU (or several)[/b]
Because you will be rendering every frame from two perspectives, your performance will take quite a hit.

It's not exactly twice as slow to render something in 3D, but it suffices to say it requires a little more juice.

Advice on GPU's is beyond the scope of this thread, if you're not complaining about a lack of drivers or being on fire already, you can join the various GPU threads present today.
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[b]Q: Does it get uncomfortable wearing 3D glasses for a long time?[/b]

[i]A: It varies per person, but so far even those I know who get headaches in 3D cinemas have reported that they were much more comfortable while using them during gameplay. Films are always shot at 24fps, and most games run at 60fps, which makes a great difference. Most home 3D systems also come with options to increase or decrease the 'intensity' of the 3D effect, which should help relax your eyes a little bit more during long gameplay sessions. Protip: don't adjust it while wearing the glasses, it feels really weird.[/i]

[b]Q: Is it worth it?[/b]

[i]A: I thoroughly enjoy playing games in 3D. You feel more immersed in the world, and it can help with spatial reasoning. For instance, in Portal you can almost instantaneously see how portals work because you can actually see that they're a 'hole' in the wall. If you're not actively against 3D, and you enjoy video games, I highly recommend it.[/i]

[b]Q: What games are compatible with 3D?[/b]

[i]A: Most of them. Stereoscopic 3D is implemented at a very low level, meaning that even games that weren't specifically developed to work in 3D work in 3D. In my experience, all DirectX based games work in 3D, in varying levels of quality, with options available to improve the effect (for instance, turning off the grain in Left 4 Dead 2 and disabling or overriding crosshairs). OpenGL games have generally struggled to work in 3D for me (like Amnesia: The Dark Descent), although I'm told it's possible.[/i]

[b]Q: Can I take the 3D glasses I got at the cinema, poke out the lenses and wear them in public?[/b]

[i]A: Get out.[/i]
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[notgeogzm]

3D reminds me of those popup books for children.

[editline]1st August 2012[/editline]

Skeletons can pop out at me in more depth now though

[Mister Royzo]

[QUOTE=geogzm;37025745]3D reminds me of those popup books for children.

[editline]1st August 2012[/editline]

Skeletons can pop out at me in more depth now though[/QUOTE]

It's like you're looking at 60 popup books a second. And the popup books have space marines, zombies, dragons, portals and nudy ladies, if you're into that sort of thing.

[notgeogzm]

[QUOTE=Mister Royzo;37025864]It's like you're looking at 60 popup books a second. And the popup books have space marines, zombies, dragons, portals and nudy ladies, if you're into that sort of thing.[/QUOTE]

My popup books had nude ladies in them when I was little, so I'll be used to it.

[legolover122]

I had access to a 3D laptop at one point. (It was meant for gaming so it had some high specs).

TF2 is fucking kickass in 3d, but in higher requirement games using 3D caused a genocide against framerate.

[notgeogzm]

[QUOTE=legolover122;37026774]I had access to a 3D laptop at one point. (It was meant for gaming so it had some high specs).

TF2 is fucking kickass in 3d, but in higher requirement games using 3D caused a genocide against framerate.[/QUOTE]

3D laptop (sounds like upwards of 1gb vram) + high performance game + flipping the laptop over = ghetto frying pan

[meppers]

3d gives me migraines

both in the movies and on the 3ds

[Greenen72]

I'm usually fine with 3D movies, but I imagine that low specs on a laptop running 3d is why it's basically unbearable.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uef17zOCDb8[/media]

My life got so much better when I got Glasses-free 3d for my laptop, it's hilarious that you guys are basically running stone-age tech

[Pardalis]

Does 3D porn exist?

[mr hobo]

I also have the BenQ XL2420T. I would highly recommend it if your looking for a 3D monitor. Very happy with it so far.

[Silikone]

What about the XL2420TX? IIRC, it's the same monitor, but with a 3D kit included.

[Mister Royzo]

[QUOTE=Silikone;37031539]What about the XL2420TX? IIRC, it's the same monitor, but with a 3D kit included.[/QUOTE]

Yeah from what I can tell, the little IR Emitter you use to sync your glasses to your monitor is built into the monitor itself, and the NVidia 3D Vision 2 Glasses are included.

It seems slightly more convenient, although I like having the little IR Emitter around, because I find the scroll wheel on the back that adjusts the '3D intensity' useful.

You can also adjust it with keyboard shortcuts though, so I guess the XL2420TX is just nice and compact.

[PyroCF]

I have an ASUS VG236 (3D vision ver. 1) and VG278 (3D vision ver. 2) and I really do like the 3D it offers. It's nothing like cinema 3D and the active technology used is by far better, it doesn't cause me any problems with eye strain.

It's great when your character stands out and scenery looks great below are some games I've played where it is great:
Just Cause 2
World of Warcraft
ArmA II sort of looks good with your character but some trees seem to ghost
Crysis 2
Serious Sam (any of them, it's bloody crazy)

Blu-ray 3D films look great too, try and get PowerDVD 10, it even converts DVDs into 3D which sort of works.

Even when you're not using 3D the 120Hz monitors look great.

[editline]1st August 2012[/editline]

Also there is no dimming of the picture with this monitor.

[Køleskab]

Arkham City 3D is the absolute SHIT! Even if you just use 3D vision Discover with Trioviz colors instead of Red/blue.

[Nafrayu]

I don't have stereoscopic vision [IMG]http://sae.tweek.us/static/images/emoticons/mad.gif[/IMG]

[Crest]

[QUOTE=latin_geek;37027612]Does 3D porn exist?[/QUOTE]

Indeed it does. I have about 15 films in 1080p stereoscopic.

I have a 720p interlace3D laptop.

[notgeogzm]

[QUOTE=Brt5470;37034762]Indeed it does. I have about 15 films in 1080p stereoscopic.

I have a 720p interlace3D laptop.[/QUOTE]

Top lad.

[Mister Royzo]

[QUOTE=DrogenViech;37034624]I don't have stereoscopic vision [IMG]http://sae.tweek.us/static/images/emoticons/mad.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

I think you'll be happy to hear that even you would benefit from having a 3D Ready monitor.

If you play games in regular 2D, you can benefit from the 120hz refresh rate, and see movements that are twice as fluid.

I play games like Max Payne 3 in regular 2D because shooting in slow motion is eyegasmically fluid, and you can too.

[tratzzz]

3D is a neat thing, but being able to afford a PC + a nice 3D screen needs a quite big bit of money.

Because instead of running the game at 60FPS, now you should try to get 120FPS instead.

And I saw a 3DS at a shop, used it and it was pretty good. A lot of people try to max out the thingy and then throw the 3DS away saying OH GOD IT WAS HORRIBLE AND DIDN'T WORK. For the 2 minutes I tried it, I had it at somewhere in the middle. The 3D effect worked fine.

[Taipan]

Id rather get a screen that uses polarised glasses.
I cant stand the flicker of the shutters.

[Køleskab]

[QUOTE=tratzzz;37040123]3D is a neat thing, but being able to afford a PC + a nice 3D screen needs a quite big bit of money.

Because instead of running the game at 60FPS, now you should try to get 120FPS instead.

And I saw a 3DS at a shop, used it and it was pretty good. A lot of people try to max out the thingy and then throw the 3DS away saying OH GOD IT WAS HORRIBLE AND DIDN'T WORK. For the 2 minutes I tried it, I had it at somewhere in the middle. The 3D effect worked fine.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure you don't HAVE to keep a constant 120FPS for it to work. I'm also rather sure that you can force half Adaptive v-sync.

[Crest]

120hz is so that each eye is only 8.3333ms away from the next frame. Since it's shifting from each. Each eye is shown 8.3333ms of an image. Even it's the same as before. That's why 60hz screens don't work because they are so slow.

120hz is to help with the effect, but nothing to do with fluidity.

[Køleskab]

[QUOTE=Brt5470;37053561]120hz is so that each eye is only 8.3333ms away from the next frame. Since it's shifting from each. Each eye is shown 8.3333ms of an image. Even it's the same as before. That's why 60hz screens don't work because they are so slow.

120hz is to help with the effect, but nothing to do with fluidity.[/QUOTE]

So in theory, you could rape it into working with a 60 HZ monitor, but still keeping the glasses at 120 HZ and just view each frame twice?

[Darkimmortal]

3D on my Samsung S23A750D (or any other time I've tried it such as cinema etc.) causes me major eye strain and headaches within minutes :(

Pity because things like Mirror's Edge and Sonic Generations are absolutely gorgeous for the few fleeting seconds I can enjoy them in 3D..

But yeah overall 120hz is a much bigger benefit than 3D in my opinion, and makes 3D monitors worth it even for those who cannot take advantage of 3D.

[Crest]

[QUOTE=Bomimo;37060462]So in theory, you could rape it into working with a 60 HZ monitor, but still keeping the glasses at 120 HZ and just view each frame twice?[/QUOTE]

It's not simply about frames. it's about perspectives. Left eye and right eye perspectives. With a 60hz screen the shortest amount of time each eye can see if 16.666ms. Each eye is receiving 1/60th of video and then 1/60th of darkness. It will be stroking at 30 times per second.

That's if the eyes stayed open for as long as the frames are, that would cause the strobing issue. Iffff you hacked it to switched, then left eye is seeing the left eye's info, as the right eye is blank. 8.333ms later the left eye closes and right eye opens and you're still seeing the left eye's perspective.

This is REGARDLESS of the framerates. You need two perspectives and in each case each eye is being flashed at 30fps or each eye is seeing both perspectives which completely ruins the point.

120hz allows for each eye to see 60hz even if those frames are the same for instance, this significantly reduces strobing and for the most part makes the 3D work.

Even 30fps content on 120hz 3D system will be fine because it's like this.

Left Eye sees Frame A Left
Right Eye sees Frame A right
Left eye sees Frame A left
Right Eye sees Frame A right
Left Eye sees Frame B Left
Right Eye sees Frame B Right
Left Eye sees Frame B Left
Right Eye sees Frame B Right

So this is 30fps on 120hz 3D. It really just won't work on 60hz.

[editline]2nd August 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=Darkimmortal;37060706]3D on my Samsung S23A750D (or any other time I've tried it such as cinema etc.) causes me major eye strain and headaches within minutes :(

Pity because things like Mirror's Edge and Sonic Generations are absolutely gorgeous for the few fleeting seconds I can enjoy them in 3D..

But yeah overall 120hz is a much bigger benefit than 3D in my opinion, and makes 3D monitors worth it even for those who cannot take advantage of 3D.[/QUOTE]

Lower the parallax, that might help.

[Køleskab]

[QUOTE=Brt5470;37061367]It's not simply about frames. it's about perspectives. Left eye and right eye perspectives. With a 60hz screen the shortest amount of time each eye can see if 16.666ms. Each eye is receiving 1/60th of video and then 1/60th of darkness. It will be stroking at 30 times per second.

That's if the eyes stayed open for as long as the frames are, that would cause the strobing issue. Iffff you hacked it to switched, then left eye is seeing the left eye's info, as the right eye is blank. 8.333ms later the left eye closes and right eye opens and you're still seeing the left eye's perspective.

This is REGARDLESS of the framerates. You need two perspectives and in each case each eye is being flashed at 30fps or each eye is seeing both perspectives which completely ruins the point.

120hz allows for each eye to see 60hz even if those frames are the same for instance, this significantly reduces strobing and for the most part makes the 3D work.

Even 30fps content on 120hz 3D system will be fine because it's like this.

Left Eye sees Frame A Left
Right Eye sees Frame A right
Left eye sees Frame A left
Right Eye sees Frame A right
Left Eye sees Frame B Left
Right Eye sees Frame B Right
Left Eye sees Frame B Left
Right Eye sees Frame B Right

So this is 30fps on 120hz 3D. It really just won't work on 60hz.

[editline]2nd August 2012[/editline]

Lower the parallax, that might help.[/QUOTE]

Well, thanks for that. I might just dive into the Asus displays Carmack recommended. Mentioned less than a frames latency. That would be relevant, no?

[Crest]

Carmack knows his shit since he's been working them with for a while. I follow him on twitter and read all of his interesting ramblings of 3D and stereoscopy.

Less than a frame is the most you can pretty much wish for. When it comes to screens at 120hz, you're looking at 8.333ms before you see the image refreshed so visually, you're going to be fine as long as the input delay is within that 8ms window.

Generally speaking.

[Mister Royzo]

[QUOTE=Darkimmortal;37060706]3D on my Samsung S23A750D (or any other time I've tried it such as cinema etc.) causes me major eye strain and headaches within minutes :(

Pity because things like Mirror's Edge and Sonic Generations are absolutely gorgeous for the few fleeting seconds I can enjoy them in 3D..

But yeah overall 120hz is a much bigger benefit than 3D in my opinion, and makes 3D monitors worth it even for those who cannot take advantage of 3D.[/QUOTE]

Try switching the left and right eye. There should be an option for it somewhere. I'm told that if they get mixed up it's [i]very[/i] taxing on your eyes.

[alien_guy]

IIRC if you find an image somewhere which has the two perspectives side by side, you can rename the file .jpn? and it will open with nvidia 3d vision picture viewer thing.

[Romka]

Is this monitor worth getting if I want to try out 3D for games?

[url]http://www.asus.com/Display/LCD_Monitors/VG278H/[/url]

[img]http://www.asus.com/websites/global/products/scyOAkYbYqeWhq8e/P_500.jpg[/img]

Also, are there any large size 3D monitors with 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 resolution or just 27" IPS panels instead of shitty TN panels?