I don't see why it's a massive issue - all the mods I've checked out so far have been 'pay what you want'. The majority of complaints have been 'why would I pay $3 for a hentai reskin of Parthunax', to which the obvious reply is [I]you probably weren't going to download that one anyway, so why is it an problem?[/I]
I was under the impression people were already making money off of workshop content?
I think things will only become worth evaluating after the topic's cooled down, there's a lot of speculation without much precedent on the community side of things and a lot of modders are trying to see how much bullshit they can get away with with this new system.
There's a lot of systems related to monetization of what's usually free content where people would ask "Well once content creators get those features, why wouldn't they use them all the time?!" be it midrolls on YouTube, or deviantART's automated watermarks and "pay to download full res" option or Newgrounds' opt-in ad thing or Twitch's option to restrict VoDs and chat access to subscribers.
But usually that stuff gets hardly used by anyone (mostly people trying out for the first time - what's probably happening right now) because it just drives people to the competition, and there's a lot of that out there for amateur quality stuff, which is the vast majority of creative content on the net. Those that can start charging without losing their audience usually provide content high enough in demand that charging for it starts being justifiable.
I kinda get what people are saying about modding losing its magical innocent charm by getting tainted by monetization, but honestly it also kinda sounds ridiculous next to other forms of art that have done just fine despite their amateurs having options for making money - even if it's unlikely that option will live up to their hopes.
Not that it's all cotton candy, I do wonder about the conflicts with third party sites like Nexus this will bring and whether there will need to be a Greenlight-like entry hurdle to prevent people from downright flooding the Workshop. Tho I guess the "you must have made $100 to get paid" hurdle already kinda fights that, similar system that Newgrounds is using (and probably a lot more, but I've never looking into the numbers of other opt-in sites). I also wonder how Valve are gonna handle stuff like mods ceasing to work and constantly fluctuating in price if you've got a bunch of them installed, neither of which are issues that will make their project help succeed. Telling customers to politely ask the content creators to fix their shit in case it breaks is everything but responsible behavior, and I'm not so sure the invisible hand will just drive people to better modders as opposed to just driving them away from a Workshop system not worth bothering with. Especially since its biggest appeal previously was its convenience.
This is a terrible idea for one reason that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere: there really isn't a way to prevent people from uploading copyrighted content as mods. Workshop items that make money had to be preapproved by Valve first, but this isn't necessarily the case now for these games with paid mods. If enough people try to do this, it might end up bothering developers enough that they may request C&Ds for even simple mods due to people leeching money from their work.
[i]This could actually end up killing all mods entirely for those featuring characters and items from other games if developers are forced to intervene.[/i]
hey garry imagine what if your mod would have been for money back in v3 when the prop RPG was crashing the game physics by launching crts too fast
[QUOTE=The Duke;47585621]This is a terrible idea for one reason that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere: there really isn't a way to prevent people from uploading copyrighted content as mods. Workshop items that make money had to be preapproved by Valve first, but this isn't necessarily the case now for these games with paid mods. If enough people try to do this, it might end up bothering developers enough that they may request C&Ds for even simple mods due to people leeching money from their work.
[i]This could actually end up killing all mods entirely for those featuring characters and items from other games if developers are forced to intervene.[/i][/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure all these things still have to be approved
[QUOTE=Handsome Matt;47585754]oh my god who cares, nobody is forcing you to buy it, but if a creator wants to charge for something, why shouldn't they be able to![/QUOTE]
Say hello to modding for every single game that implements this 'feature' to become like gmod is now.
aka copy paste bullshit on coderhire with noone really making anything interesting anymore, because why would you when you can make hud mods on coder hire and make the big bucks.
The problem is people will be doing shit for financial gain not because they actually enjoy it so it'll be greenlight all over again. Very few actual good mods and most will be quick cash grabs.
I mean you really don't have to think that hard about how it could go wrong.
Someone releases a huge bugfix mod at like £10 for a game that needs it and got abandoned by devs. That's the kind of shit that will inevitably happen.
[QUOTE=spekter;47585795]The problem is people will be doing shit for financial gain not because they actually enjoy it so it'll be greenlight all over again. Very few actual good mods and most will be quick cash grabs.[/QUOTE]
Nobody is forcing you to buy said "cash grabs".
[QUOTE=The Duke;47585621]This is a terrible idea for one reason that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere: there really isn't a way to prevent people from uploading copyrighted content as mods. Workshop items that make money had to be preapproved by Valve first, but this isn't necessarily the case now for these games with paid mods. If enough people try to do this, it might end up bothering developers enough that they may request C&Ds for even simple mods due to people leeching money from their work.
[i]This could actually end up killing all mods entirely for those featuring characters and items from other games if developers are forced to intervene.[/i][/QUOTE]
They still have to be approved by valve. That doesn't guarantee an absence of copyrighted content but the TOU states that you could be liable for copyright infringement and it's insanity to think that it could kill all mods entirely.
Bottom line about this is it's a bit entitled to insist that content creators not [i]have the option[/i] of creating content for money if it's being offered to them. Vote with your wallet if you don't like this, and others who are angry will do the same.
Passion and profit are not mutually exclusive.
I can't believe are resorting to this "it's the heart of the mods" bullshit.
[QUOTE=MaxLeb;47585803]Nobody is forcing you to buy said "cash grabs".[/QUOTE]
Problem is, mods shouldn't and never should be paid for content. If there is a mod that is extremely well done that warrants a donation, I seek the owner or their website and make a donation. Simple.
Not only is Valve literally fucking modders (25% cut, what a joke) but they are fucking the consumer as well. Nobody wants to pay for mods, plain and simple.
Half the fun of downloading mods is simple browsing through pages, finding something that tickles your fancy, and downloading it. Tons of different weapons, skins, and small addons will now be segregated into paid for and non paid for. Why can't people just donate if they really like it? There'd be more incentive to send the creator money this way.
This entire program is a way for Valve to make a quick buck while ripping off content creators who are greedy enough to also make a quick buck.
Garry's enthusiasm about this seems pretty near-sighted considering that arguably the largest factor of GMod's popularity and longevity are free third party modifications and gamemodes (some of which have been picked up and edited by multiple people throughout the years, something you wouldn't be able to do with paid mods)
Somehow I don't think you'd find nowhere as many people willing to pay 5 bucks to play DarkRP
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47585914]Garry's enthusiasm about this seems pretty near-sighted considering that arguably the largest factor of GMod's popularity and longevity are free third party modifications and gamemodes (some of which have been picked up and edited by multiple people throughout the years, something you wouldn't be able to do with paid mods)
Somehow I don't think you'd find nowhere as many people willing to pay 5 bucks to play DarkRP[/QUOTE]
Garrys mod was successfully solely because of other peoples contributions. Garry just laid the foundation
[QUOTE=redBadger;47585930]Garrys mod was successfully solely because of other peoples contributions. Garry just laid the foundation[/QUOTE]
Garry's Mod isn't the same thing. It started as a mod for Half-Life 2, and remained that way for like four years until GMod 11 (or something). Which by then, it had effectively become a standalone game built on the Source engine. Garry even has the source code for Source.
A more apt comparison would be buying GMod 3 where you could only create ropes and selling that.
[QUOTE=MaxLeb;47585803]Nobody is forcing you to buy said "cash grabs".[/QUOTE]
That doesn't change the fact that literally all of steam greenlight is complete shit though does it? They're flooding the steam market with crap and it becomes hard to actually find anything decent.
Quality control is massively important but Steam won't do a thing to ensure that's doable.
Let's not forget the inevitable really huge bug fix mods that'll charge out the ass for you to get them.
I agree there should be a wider market for paid modded content. But I don't think valve should get a massive cut of it.
Literally all these people who support all have the same damn arguement:
[b]"No one is forcing you to buy it."[/b]
You know what? Those people are right. And you know what else? No one forced the modders to make those mods in the first place. I never asked anyone personally to make those mods. Not to mention some of those mods were free to begin with, but when you hold greed over their sense of creativity, of course they're gonna change their mind.
[b]"Well, people need to be paid for their hard work."[/b]
If you main source of income are fan-made game modifications, than I don't know what to say to you. I make drawings and fanart for fun and for others to simply enjoy. If someone personally asks me to specifically make a drawing for them, then yes I hold every right to ask for money because I'm going out of my way to make something for you, not for me.
I never asked for any of these mods for be created in the first place. Why should I have to buy them all of a sudden? Because Valve simply wanted to make more money off it's user by doing absolutely nothing and using the "modders hard work" as an excuse? Yeah, no. Not even the modders themselves barely get any revenue.
I honestly never thought I'd see the day where I'd have to pay for something that made PC Gaming separate itself from console gaming. A community of fan-made content for a game I already paid being turned into a business. This is only going to spread. This is not going to get better, this is going to get worse.
I don't care how you view this. This literally helps no one.
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;47586209]No one forced the modders to make those mods in the first place. I never asked anyone personally to make those mods.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;47586209]I never asked for any of these mods for be created in the first place.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;47586209]Why should I have to buy them all of a sudden?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;47586209]I honestly never thought I'd see the day where I'd have to pay for something that made PC Gaming separate itself from console gaming.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;47586209]This literally helps no one.[/QUOTE]
Why are you acting like all mods have to exist for you personally, and you have to buy them no matter what? You seriously don't have to buy them. I promise.
the entitlement over this is absolutely insane
valve has provided a 'pay what you want' option, and even a way to sort it so that you only see free content
[editline]24th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=The Duke;47585621]This is a terrible idea for one reason that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere: there really isn't a way to prevent people from uploading copyrighted content as mods. Workshop items that make money had to be preapproved by Valve first, but this isn't necessarily the case now for these games with paid mods. If enough people try to do this, it might end up bothering developers enough that they may request C&Ds for even simple mods due to people leeching money from their work.
[i]This could actually end up killing all mods entirely for those featuring characters and items from other games if developers are forced to intervene.[/i][/QUOTE]
the only mature criticism of this on facepunch
Should modders get paid for their work? Sure. Should players pay for mods? Hell no. If you want to support modders, valve, pay them yourself. Oh wait, you needed another cash river.
[editline]24th April 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=bitches;47588634]the entitlement over this is absolutely insane
valve has provided a 'pay what you want' option, and even a way to sort it so that you only see free content
[/QUOTE]
What if I want to pay $0?
[QUOTE=damnatus;47588655]What if I want to pay $0?[/QUOTE]
Then pay $0. If valve is willing to provide a service where people get paid for making mods, and they want to use it, you have literally zero say in what they do. It's their work, and if you don't think it's worth money then don't pay for it and if enough people follow suit then only the mods that really are worth paying for will remain that way.
[QUOTE=damnatus;47588655]Should modders get paid for their work? Sure. Should players pay for mods? Hell no. If you want to support modders, valve, pay them yourself. Oh wait, you needed another cash river.
[editline]24th April 2015[/editline]
What if I want to pay $0?[/QUOTE]
"everything anyone works on should be given to me for free because i say so"
The way I see it, either we abolish capitalism, and dish out things according to how much of them we have and who needs them (ie digital content is free) or we let this go on, because frankly, in this system there is no real reason not to charge for this. Under this system some people might even benefit greatly in their lives from a successful mod, thus driving the machine of industry and innovation. Yes there will be crap out there, but the crap will be paid for less than the good stuff which will gain in popularity due to how good it is. Just as well, the pay what you want system that many people are using could be a good way to get around the whole issue of inflation.
People getting paid for their work is fine, but 75% is way way too much for valve to take. If a mod is worth what someone charges then it will get bought and will be fine, if people overcharge then it will be rejected by everyone. The price will sort itself out.
Also money being involved means there will be some utterly amazing mods because people can do it full time.
[QUOTE=mecaguy03;47588821]People getting paid for their work is fine, but 75% is way way too much for valve to take. If a mod is worth what someone charges then it will get bought and will be fine, if people overcharge then it will be rejected by everyone. The price will sort itself out.
Also money being involved means there will be some utterly amazing mods because people can do it full time.[/QUOTE]
It may be that the developers of the base game receive 25-50% as well for allowing the sale of things for their game; making valve's cut only 1/4 or 1/2.
I don't get all the fuss about paid mods.
If someone have spent a year on new stories, re-textured skins, music .. buy him a Starbucks coffee.
I can't see any problems with a price-tag for some hard work and dedication.
[i]Greed, like the love of comfort, is a kind of fear.[/i] - Cyril Connolly, The Unquiet Grave
And you're all bloody fearing for loosing that coin under your pillow? Pitty
And Steam should only get max 15% .. and 20% should go to the makers of Skyrim.
[QUOTE=Killuah;47585643]hey garry imagine what if your mod would have been for money back in v3 when the prop RPG was crashing the game physics by launching crts too fast[/QUOTE]
I bet JBmod would be dominating the workshop market.
[QUOTE=Nak;47588965]I don't get all the fuss about paid mods.
If someone have spent a year on new stories, re-textured skins, music .. buy him a Starbucks coffee.
I can't see any problems with a price-tag for some hard work and dedication.
[i]Greed, like the love of comfort, is a kind of fear.[/i] - Cyril Connolly, The Unquiet Grave
And you're all bloody fearing for loosing that coin under your pillow? Pitty
And Steam should only get max 15% .. and 20% should go to the makers of Skyrim.[/QUOTE]
A mod that size would require a team, which you would then have to divide the 25% share with. And that's a recipe for disaster.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;47589035]A mod that size would require a team, which you would then have to divide the 25% share with. And that's a recipe for disaster.[/QUOTE]
I've seen plenty of mods at great scale don by 1 person. Just lookup Falskaar.
The price-tag shouldn't be seen as a business-model but rather a fair trade for a cup of coffee.
A donate option is nice .. but sadly not used that often.
"Something that someone took time to create can now cost money? What a world"
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
