[quote]The move to the cloud was also seen as an effort to combat piracy - Adobe's products regularly rank as the most illegally downloaded worldwide.[/quote]
Instead of combating it. Why not make the software better than pirated version? Kinda what Gabe talked about with his Steam.
[QUOTE=Pappi_man;44823584]Instead of combating it. Why not make the software better than pirated version? Kinda what Gabe talked about with his Steam.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think the main problem with Adobe's products is the stupidly high price tag for individuals. Not many people are going to pay a subscription for Photoshop either.
The issue isn't how good the stuff is, its the overinflated price tag they slap on it and subscriptions for shit like photoshop? Fuck off, no wonder people pirate it.
Unacceptable.
At least let it run if previous authentications were successful and transparently try again every hour to authenticate until the servers come back up. Not taking into account network downtime is the biggest flaw you can make in online DRM.
[QUOTE=Morgen;44824399]Yeah, I think the main problem with Adobe's products is the stupidly high price tag for individuals. Not many people are going to pay a subscription for Photoshop either.[/QUOTE]
120 bucks a year (10 dollars a month) for photoshop CC and photoshop CS6 is VERY reasonable. Adobe has done a great job in inciting people to actually purchase photoshop. I don't agree with their 'cloud' approach, but I thought they had safe guards set up to keep the network license from not being usable even if the network is down.
[quote]With the system down for around 24 hours, many businesses were unable to carry out some work.[/quote]
[b]????[/b]
if you can't log into the service you're still fully capable of using the programs on your computer for 30 days. The only thing a day long outtage could hinder is installing new software
[QUOTE=Pappi_man;44823584]Instead of combating it. Why not make the software better than pirated version? Kinda what Gabe talked about with his Steam.[/QUOTE]
That's exactly what this cloud thing was. Instead of buying the software outright for a ridiculous price you "subscribed" to the cloud version.
[QUOTE=Pappi_man;44823584]Instead of combating it. Why not make the software better than pirated version? Kinda what Gabe talked about with his Steam.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean better than the pirated version? Every version has been cracked and every single new version is going to be cracked.
[QUOTE=BlueYoshi;44824731]What do you mean better than the pirated version? Every version has been cracked and every single new version is going to be cracked.[/QUOTE]
What he means is that pirating sucks. Finding a decent torrent, waiting seven centuries for it to download, and cracking it are a pain in the ass. People will pay a price for the convenience of clicking a button and downloading a program from decent servers and not having to do anything special afterwords. That price just has to be right. Nobody pirates "because they're dicks" they do it because they either can't get a product conveniently legally (see: Game of Thrones) or it's insanely expensive (see: every Adobe product ever released.)
Didn't even notice it going down.
You don't even have to be logged in to use the stuff.
Why not sell it on steam and the special add-ons can be sold like a DLC?
I find it had to justify paying a subscription for a static product. If they were adding new features - even relatively minor ones - at a steady pace that it'd pay the monthly price for, I'd be all for switching.
Yeah yeah CC is supposedly going to be the next revision from now until forever with free updates, but if they're not going to make their relatively annual boatload -o- update cash, why would they put in the effort? If you're giving them money either way, what is their motivation to create substantial new products that'd previously be bait for getting people to shell out several hundred to update?
It's not competition, photoshop is a virtual monolopy. They've got the best products and .psds are the industry standard - and they know it. I mean by forcing subscriptions as the only future update path, they've made it clear that they have a strong 'my way or the highway' mentality about it already.
Monthly subs mean they can milk their products for every penny and don't have to put in the effort to innovate ever again.
[QUOTE=Major_Vice;44824839]I find it had to justify paying a subscription for a static product. If they were adding new features - even relatively minor ones - at a steady pace that it'd pay the monthly price for, I'd be all for switching.
Yeah yeah CC is supposedly going to be the next revision from now until forever with free updates, but if they're not going to make their relatively annual boatload -o- update cash, why would they put in the effort? If you're giving them money either way, what is their motivation to create substantial new products that'd previously be bait for getting people to shell out several hundred to update?
It's not competition, photoshop is a virtual monolopy. They've got the best products and .psds are the industry standard - and they know it. I mean by forcing subscriptions as the only future update path, they've made it clear that they have a strong 'my way or the highway' mentality about it already.
Monthly subs mean they can milk their products for every penny and don't have to put in the effort to innovate ever again.[/QUOTE]
- they constantly update features and you get "what's new" popups from time to time
- they do make the cash. People are far more willing to pay small amounts over time than drop it in one chunk, so more people, companies, schools, etc are buying it up and sticking with it. It's a steady flow of income that, when major revisions come around, will be better than just asking people to throw a wad of cash down on another version
- complaining someone else wants things "my way or the highway" is a great way of making it known you want it [i]your[/i] way of the highway. Still, I agree they've established themselves above and beyond as the industry standard. (Thanks to being lax about piracy). People know their programs because they knew they were good, but expensive and they didn't want to buy it. People pirated it, and soon enough they had [i]skill[/i] in the program that was applicable to real-world jobs. this made it high demand because it was easier to hire someone who knew important software than to take on someone you have to train in something they've never touched
- monthly subs means I'm paying $50/month ($600/year) for a product that will have consistent updates and full upgrades through the past few CS's every 1.5 years,
SO, for someone who'd be upgrading anyways, that's $2600 saved off the first copy then $200/version provided you keep track of your prior licencing info. It'd take you, the consumer with a LENIENT 2 years between version upgrades, 5 years just to break even against the sub model. at 1.5 year upgrades, a bit over 6.5 years
[img]http://i.imgur.com/A8Z3EUU.png[/img]
have you had anywhere near the service available now in paying for upgrades on photoshop since CS2? Who's to say you even need 6 years of photoshop? Tons of companies will have short projects and don't want to drop big money on a bunch of licences for something that'll only last a year, or even a few months. This opens up short pay options that are way more fair to the end user and more likely to bring in a ton more revenue to adobe due to the influx of people who'd otherwise deem it not worth buying
[QUOTE=dai;44825076]points[/QUOTE]
Solid points all around, and you're right, for short term projects and people with a solid revenue stream of their own, it's a solid switch. I'm still very skeptical and will be until they a 'killer' reason that previously would have meant a jump in CS versions - as of yet, unless I've missed something, I haven't seen substantial feature changes from CC day one and CC today. I'll admit, Adobe products have always had a progressive and building feature-set and although one version to the next isn't groundbreaking, generally jumping two to three versions constitutes a huge change. I'd like to see if the changes they have made when we would have otherwise seen CS8 or 9 are in fact as big as they could have been; to see what hand they play now that they have all these users paying them money for the products regardless if they generate upgrade level features or not. If I'm wrong and we see huge creative suite level upgrades then I'll happily eat my words and insert my foot in my mouth as I sign up. As it stands right now, without a crystal ball, it's hard for me to really buy in. I simply don't trust Adobe that much.
It's not that I hate the idea of subscription models, I just think that cutting out all vectors of buying a product except subscription is not a good one. I'd be much more open to the idea if they still offered the traditional single lifetime licenses for those of us that can't plan 20 or 30 quarters down the road - I, for example, bought CS3 and CS6 as student editions while in college. I make a few bucks on the side from work done but mostly it's a hobby, nothing near worth the price of monthly admission (conversely, I haven't made enough money to outright buy a copy of PS, if that were an option). I[I] might [/I]end up working in the field where it becomes something worth the money, but it is likely it'll just be a creative outlet. Either way, I have a permanent legal copy of CS that I don't have to pay monthly to use. Students today and in the future just won't have that kind of freedom (legally), and I think that's a bit of a shame.
Keeping CS revisions alive would have also given added value to the CC folks, something to look at and say 'glad I didn't go with the upgrade path,' and honestly, I think the reason why it's gone is because they might not be able to offer that feeling with this new payment model. With no bar to compare against, there'll never be a definitive 'this was worth the money' or 'this was a bad idea,' it's simply 'better pony up another $20 to use this thing I need/enjoy using.' I hope they prove me wrong though, I really do.
I'd make the argument also that you might enjoy 'the old version' of your favorite tool, but Adobe is exceptional at providing newer products that are all around better then their older ones, so that's moot. (Same can't be said for say, MS Office)
[QUOTE=Major_Vice;44827112]Solid points all around, and you're right, for short term projects and people with a solid revenue stream of their own, it's a solid switch. I'm still very skeptical and will be until they a 'killer' reason that previously would have meant a jump in CS versions - as of yet, unless I've missed something, I haven't seen substantial feature changes from CC day one and CC today. I'll admit, Adobe products have always had a progressive and building feature-set and although one version to the next isn't groundbreaking, generally jumping two to three versions constitutes a huge change. I'd like to see if the changes they have made when we would have otherwise seen CS8 or 9 are in fact as big as they could have been; to see what hand they play now that they have all these users paying them money for the products regardless if they generate upgrade level features or not. If I'm wrong and we see huge creative suite level upgrades then I'll happily eat my words and insert my foot in my mouth as I sign up. As it stands right now, without a crystal ball, it's hard for me to really buy in. I simply don't trust Adobe that much.
It's not that I hate the idea of subscription models, I just think that cutting out all vectors of buying a product except subscription is not a good one. I'd be much more open to the idea if they still offered the traditional single lifetime licenses for those of us that can't plan 20 or 30 quarters down the road - I, for example, bought CS3 and CS6 as student editions while in college. I make a few bucks on the side from work done but mostly it's a hobby, nothing near worth the price of monthly admission (conversely, I haven't made enough money to outright buy a copy of PS, if that were an option). I[I] might [/I]end up working in the field where it becomes something worth the money, but it is likely it'll just be a creative outlet. Either way, I have a permanent legal copy of CS that I don't have to pay monthly to use. Students today and in the future just won't have that kind of freedom (legally), and I think that's a bit of a shame.
Keeping CS revisions alive would have also given added value to the CC folks, something to look at and say 'glad I didn't go with the upgrade path,' and honestly, I think the reason why it's gone is because they might not be able to offer that feeling with this new payment model. With no bar to compare against, there'll never be a definitive 'this was worth the money' or 'this was a bad idea,' it's simply 'better pony up another $20 to use this thing I need/enjoy using.' I hope they prove me wrong though, I really do.
I'd make the argument also that you might enjoy 'the old version' of your favorite tool, but Adobe is exceptional at providing newer products that are all around better then their older ones, so that's moot. (Same can't be said for say, MS Office)[/QUOTE]
You're not allowed to use your student edition for commercial work, and the license is only valid for one year.
[QUOTE=surfur;44824521]120 bucks a year (10 dollars a month) for photoshop CC and photoshop CS6 is VERY reasonable. Adobe has done a great job in inciting people to actually purchase photoshop. I don't agree with their 'cloud' approach, but I thought they had safe guards set up to keep the network license from not being usable even if the network is down.[/QUOTE]
That's great for someone who uses it frequently but for people who might only use it a few times a year to touch up holiday photos or whatever, it's not worth it.
[QUOTE=surfur;44824521]120 bucks a year (10 dollars a month) for photoshop CC and photoshop CS6 is VERY reasonable. Adobe has done a great job in inciting people to actually purchase photoshop. I don't agree with their 'cloud' approach, but I thought they had safe guards set up to keep the network license from not being usable even if the network is down.[/QUOTE]
They had an awesome offer lately. 20 dollars a month for 20 programs (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Muse, Lightroom) and many others.
[QUOTE=Pappi_man;44823584]Instead of combating it. Why not make the software better than pirated version? Kinda what Gabe talked about with his Steam.[/QUOTE]
Thing is also adobe products are so incredibly easy to bypass. People can do it in their sleep. They'll always find a way. Overall I will consider moving to CC from CS6 once I start getting more freelance work likely. Until then, my old CS6 copy will do me just fine.
[QUOTE=Morgen;44839880]That's great for someone who uses it frequently but for people who might only use it a few times a year to touch up holiday photos or whatever, it's not worth it.[/QUOTE]
That's fair enough, but if you're not going to rely on it too heavily, then you're probably going to be okay just sticking with an older version of it.
[QUOTE=Morgen;44839880]That's great for someone who uses it frequently but for people who might only use it a few times a year to touch up holiday photos or whatever, it's not worth it.[/QUOTE]
get photoshop elements then ?
Our designers at work didn't have any issues continuing work - they had it installed. I guess this only affects new installs?
[QUOTE=Pappi_man;44823584]Instead of combating it. Why not make the software better than pirated version? Kinda what Gabe talked about with his Steam.[/QUOTE]
Because Adobe is to Software as Apple is to Hardware
It's over priced so bad. You can get schools, businesses and freelance artists to buy it, but you're not going to get your every day average joe that might want to touch up a photo or skin a model for a game to fork over that amount of money for it. Especially when Gimp is free
[QUOTE=TheTalon;44844404]Because Adobe is to Software as Apple is to Hardware
It's over priced so bad. You can get schools, businesses and freelance artists to buy it, but you're not going to get your every day average joe that might want to touch up a photo or skin a model for a game to fork over that amount of money for it. Especially when Gimp is free[/QUOTE]
$10 a month for photoshop isn't that bad
just scoff away a pizza
master suite was overpriced, that i can agree on
[QUOTE=Morgen;44824399]Yeah, I think the main problem with Adobe's products is the stupidly high price tag for individuals. Not many people are going to pay a subscription for Photoshop either.[/QUOTE]
People need to realize students/individual users aren't Adobe's target audience (or at least before the introduction of cloud service). Also, Adobe's products aren't even that expensive compared to other "professional" programs. For example, my company dished out 23,000 dollars for a 5 year single user license like 3 weeks ago.
[QUOTE=aydin690;44845078]People need to realize students/individual users aren't Adobe's target audience (or at least before the introduction of cloud service). Also, Adobe's products aren't even that expensive compared to other "professional" programs. For example, my company dished out 23,000 dollars for a 5 year single user license like 3 weeks ago.[/QUOTE]
Yea if we want to go to over priced software we can look at Autodesk.
both Maya and 3DS Max for a Perpetual license: $3,675.00
And if you want future upgrades and cloud support: $4,700.00
So yea, Adobe's pricing is fucking great compared to the other shit we have to deal with.
also yea, you can get 3DS and Maya with a subscription, but it's 195 a month..
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