[quote]He now thinks that Valve made a terrible mistake in picking Skyrim as their testbed, with its long-established community and complicated combo mods.[/quote]
[quote]“Our customers are more familiar with us and the way we work,” said Walker. “I think they understand our thinking.”[/quote]
Oh piss off. Like it was the game that was the problem. Seems like they learnt nothing, this is gonna be fun.
I still don't know what's wrong with paid mods. Don't buy stuff you don't want, and support those who do cool stuff. If you don't like it, move on with your life and keep doing what you were doing.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48942871]I still don't know what's wrong with paid mods. Don't buy stuff you don't want, and support those who do cool stuff. If you don't like it, move on with your life and keep doing what you were doing.[/QUOTE]
I don't mind the principle of it, just the developer getting 50% and Valve getting 25% I think it was, is idiotic.
I thought the pricing of the mods was kinda nuts. Wasn't one of the armors on sale for like $5?
[QUOTE=Novangel;48942881]I don't mind the principle of it, just the developer getting 50% and Valve getting 25% I think it was, is idiotic.[/QUOTE]
You are getting it wrong, it was 25% for the creator of the mod and 75% for Valve (the creator decided where to "donate" that money or something).
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=PotatoArmada;48942892]I thought the pricing of the mods was kinda nuts. Wasn't one of the armors on sale for like $5?[/QUOTE]
If I am not totally mistaken, Apocalypse, one of the most known spells mods, was being sold for like the price of the game itself or almost.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48942871]I still don't know what's wrong with paid mods. Don't buy stuff you don't want, and support those who do cool stuff. If you don't like it, move on with your life and keep doing what you were doing.[/QUOTE]
If the modders get 100% of the money, then I'm fine, but as of right now, they get a very sad amount of money.
Not to mention the fact that as shown in the last attempt at monetizing, the community will turn into a wild mob of witch hunters, aggressively bullying every modder that makes paid mods out of the community.
If that's the case, protest that and not the paid mod system as a whole. I'm sure people were doing that and I missed it, but reading through online comments I just kept hearing "this is stupid" and not why.
[QUOTE=DaWhatTheFox;48942895]You are getting it wrong, it was 25% for the creator of the mod and 75% for Valve (the creator decided where to "donate" that money or something).
[editline]20th October 2015[/editline]
If I am not totally mistaken, Apocalypse, one of the most known spells mods, was being sold for like the price of the game itself or almost.[/QUOTE]
That's even more retarded then.
[QUOTE=kaukassus;48942906]If the modders get 100% of the money, then I'm fine, but as of right now, they get a very sad amount of money.
Not to mention the fact that as shown in the last attempt at monetizing, the community will turn into a wild mob of witch hunters, aggressively bullying every modder that makes paid mods out of the community.[/QUOTE]
Sadly this is the current state of the TES modding community. The ones complaining about the ridiculous cuts but approved of the concept were the minority, most people were simply outraged by it. It doesn't help that there was a few controversies like copyright infringing, flat out stealing, and other things that fueled the disapproval of paid mods.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48942926]If that's the case, protest that and not the paid mod system as a whole. I'm sure people were doing that and I missed it, but reading through online comments I just kept hearing "this is stupid" and not why.[/QUOTE]
It's been discussed to hell and back the day the system was released.
-Asset theft
-Wholesale mod theft
-No guarantees, safeguards or refunds in case of bugs/conflicts/crashes
-Mod co-dependency
-Asinine pricing on the modders' part
-Modders only getting 25% of the profits, while Bethesda got 45% for the SDK and Valve another 30% for doing basically nothing they weren't doing before
-Modders changin their previously 100% free work into nagware (Midas' spell mods, having existed since fucking [I]Morrowind[/I], being the worst example)
-And more
[QUOTE]-Modders changin their previously 100% free work into nagware (Midas' spell mods, having existed since fucking [I]Morrowind[/I], being the worst example)[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, it was Midas' not Apocalypse. Sorry.
Valve: "We still want to make money any where we can, so we're gonna act like we're working on our customer service, but we're still modern Valve."
[QUOTE=Ager O'Eggers;48942945]-Modders changin their previously 100% free work into nagware (Midas' spell mods, having existed since fucking [I]Morrowind[/I], being the worst example)
-And more[/QUOTE]
This should not be the issue. If a developer is going to be a dickhead with their world, download their previously working mods, bitch at them about it, or don't download it. Garry's Mod goes past nagging and actually requires payment, so there's that. Blaming the mod system for turning people into assholes is a way of diverting attention from the issues with mod developers themselves.
That is true; there's no accounting for people being huge assholes.
The point is it brought an extremely negative attitude from modders (or profiteering scumbags, at least), seemingly overnight.
Up until that point, mods had been works of passion. Modders knew what they were getting into.
There was no funding, save for the odd donation, or the exceptional case where mods got turned into full-fleshed games (eg Garry's Mod).
Like people stated time and before, there's nothing wrong with people getting compensation for their work, and donations would've been the best implementation.
Instead, we got a system that was fucked in every conceivable way (morally questionable, and a shitstorm in the making from a legal point of view).
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48942978]This should not be the issue.[/QUOTE]
But it is. And it's gonna take a hell lot of effort to change this. They are going against a mindset that has been established over decades, it's gonna take many years to change this.
It will require the cooperation of the community at large, modders, service providers (Steam Workshop & TES Nexus and similiar) and the upstream devs to combat this.
* upstream devs must give a precise TOS that also targets paid modding and is permissive.
* upstream devs must give insurance to not change anything in their game to break existing mods, because mod authors may or may not abandon mods, and this would void the customers purchase.
* service providers must act swiftly to remove and ban any accounts engaging in harassing mod authors.
* service providers must guarantee that asset theft will be dealt with swiftly and each claim will be reviewed by a human person (as opposed to something like contentID or automated DMCA request processing)
Basically, Valve put in place a system that would require strict curation in order to work properly, but left it to the masses to figure it out (as usual), while taking a huge cut of the profits. And that's no good.
I can only see it working by using a humble bundle like system, charge what you want, (gain bonuses for going above average) and let us choose percentages for mod dev, game dev and valve. The cuts could still be within a limited range so you can go less than 20% for anyone, but no more than 60%.
I really didn't appreciate the paid mod system last time and I'm not optimistic about it this time either. What's stopping me from stealing a bunch of shit and making my own shitty mod to scam people with?
Paid mods? Fuck off, Donate button? Yea, I approve of that way more
The shitty part of paid mods was anyone could charge for "Hey I reskinned this sword give me $5" Paid mods more expansions/added quests is fine, armor weapon spell mods should remain free i thinks
I'm not against modders getting paid for their work, I'm all for that even. Would love to have an easier way to give money to some of my favourite modders.
But enforcing payment, and not giving them the majority of the payments, that's not something I could ever agree with.
I bought the Elder Scrolls games (IV and V) on PC even after owning and completing them on PS3 for the simple reason of mods. Thanks to them you can add many many more hours to your game or even add decent new armors. Mods are supossed to be created for and by community members and one shouldn't need to pay for it if the person doesn't want to, otherwise an optional donation part would be really good and believe it or not many people would donate.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;48942978]This should not be the issue. If a developer is going to be a dickhead with their world, [B]download their previously working mods[/B], bitch at them about it, or don't download it.
[...][/QUOTE][emphasis mine]
That's only possible to a very limited extent with Workshop mods, unless you technically pirate them from elsewhere.
If the creator updates it the previous version becomes unavailable and it auto-updates to the new one.
It depends on the game whether there's a large secondary modding platform of course.
Paid mods are going to happen, just not sure Valve will pioneer them. Well they already have, TF2, CSGO and Dota skins and weapons are community made. But the real paid mods will likely hit the poor Consolers playing Fallout 4.
I'd rather go for the donation system. Unless Valve is willing to enforce quality control rules to keep the consumer protected, I think it will come crashing down once again.
[QUOTE=DaWhatTheFox;48942895]You are getting it wrong, it was 25% for the creator of the mod and 75% for Valve (the creator decided where to "donate" that money or something).
[/QUOTE]
25% Creators
75% Valve, Steam, Devs and Publishers of the original game. Also there are a lot of maintaining costs, licensing and moderation covered.
Most developers get between 25% and 50% of profit for their game that they created from the ground up in Steam.
[QUOTE=lolo;48943411]I'd rather go for the donation system. Unless Valve is willing to enforce quality control rules to keep the consumer protected, I think it will come crashing down once again.[/QUOTE]
This, or else enjoy your $2 low poly sword mod again.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48944927]Let's not even get into the legality of developers making mods with pirated copies of photoshop and whatnot.[/QUOTE]
That never stopped 99% of tf2 contributors lol
We still got the Nexus at least if workshop plans to pull this shit. Except its full of erotic armor mods and bullshit.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;48943337][emphasis mine]
That's only possible to a very limited extent with Workshop mods, unless you technically pirate them from elsewhere.
If the creator updates it the previous version becomes unavailable and it auto-updates to the new one.
It depends on the game whether there's a large secondary modding platform of course.[/QUOTE]
The auto-update only betrays how poorly Valve understands Skyrim modding. Some mods get updates that require a clean save so they can make a bigger improvement to how it works, and some compatibility patches only work with the right version of the mods they apply to.
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