Most rifles and guns have the perpetual issue of recoil where the weapon gets jerked upwards whenever it fires, forcing the user to make pauses between shots and readjust. This is also frequently found in videogames with recoil patterns. Could a rifle be created which shoots an equivalent force downwards whenever the weapon is fired to neutralize the upwards force?
[QUOTE=Shalaska;52864025][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_brake[/url]
yes.[/QUOTE]
muzzle brakes reduce felt recoil but don't typically do anything about muzzle flip so it doesn't speed up follow up shots any. to reduce muzzle flip on an existing firearm you need a ported barrel, but those bring in the additional problem of the flash obscuring your sight picture.
to reduce muzzle flip with no compromises to usage you need to lower the barrel axis to almost in line with your index finger such as in the case of a chiappa rhino, mateba autorevolver, or olympic-style target pistol. this unfortunately creates packaging issues with anything that's not a single shot or a revolver, so few companies bother to lower the barrel axis to such an extent on account of the fact that the action needs to be longer to account for the linkages. this isn't reasonably possible in a magazine fed pistol and completely impossible in a bullpup, though in the case of the latter it's not as big a deal since the reciprocating mass is behind the center of gravity and thus provides a counter to muzzle flip on it's own
Many modern firearms are, or already have implemented firing mechanisms of their own to counter-act recoil springing upwards. Some are unique and others are outdated but a commonly mentioned one is the Kriss Vector as it's selling point is it's mechanism that significantly reduces muzzle lift as compared to other models. The way it works is by mitigating the amount of muzzle lift upwards using a system built internally in the gun that pushes the pressure downwards when each shell is ejected. (a very crude explanation and I probably butchered it but you can look it up yourself for specifics.)
If you're asking this for a project, such as a novel or a video game, you could easily design some sci-fi gun that's an advanced version of the Kriss.
[QUOTE=SirDavid255;52864146]Many modern firearms are, or already have implemented firing mechanisms of their own to counter-act recoil springing upwards. Some are unique and others are outdated but a commonly mentioned one is the Kriss Vector as it's selling point is it's mechanism that significantly reduces muzzle lift as compared to other models. The way it works is by mitigating the amount of muzzle lift upwards using a system built internally in the gun that pushes the pressure downwards when each shell is ejected. (a very crude explanation and I probably butchered it but you can look it up yourself for specifics.)
If you're asking this for a project, such as a novel or a video game, you could easily design some sci-fi gun that's an advanced version of the Kriss.[/QUOTE]
that's a gun that uses the low barrel axis I mentioned earlier, and does a good job showing the packaging issues I mentioned. it controls recoil easily but it's heavy and slow to aim for what it is
The AEK-971, AK-107, and AK 108 have what is called a BARS, (Balanced Automatic Recoil System) which uses a countermass that cancels out the force of the gas piston recoiling backwards by going forward at the same time. It works really well. It makes the weapon more complex, but it works.
The trick is to have the gun fire a bullet of equal caliber in the opposite direction, canceling all forces resulting in zero recoil
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52864689]The trick is to have the gun fire a bullet of equal caliber in the opposite direction, canceling all forces resulting in zero recoil[/QUOTE]
[t]https://thereaganwing.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/reverse-pistol-2-1024-1.jpg[/t]
weld to another pistol and badaboom
I had a very amusing idea for a hypothetical science fiction gun. It would resemble a saucer like device that would spin at a really high speed and only have a single barrel attached to one side that would spin with in. and the weapon would automatically fire at the right target as soon as the user pulled the trigger regardless of the barrel's position, and since the saucer would be spinning extremely quickly it would determine the position and automatically fire whenever the barrel lined up with the target.
The advantage of the device could consist of hitting targets at wildly different locations extremely quickly as the barrel continued traveling in the circle.
[QUOTE=genkaz92;52864724]I had a very amusing idea for a hypothetical science fiction gun. It would resemble a saucer like device that would spin at a really high speed and only have a single barrel attached to one side that would spin with in. and the weapon would automatically fire at the right target as soon as the user pulled the trigger regardless of the barrel's position, and since the saucer would be spinning extremely quickly it would determine the position and automatically fire whenever the barrel lined up with the target.
The advantage of the device could consist of hitting targets at wildly different locations extremely quickly as the barrel continued traveling in the circle.[/QUOTE]
Better yet, a sphereical gun where there's a barrel on it that spins around the gun in completely random directions at like a hundred billion times a second. When it happens to line up with a target it takes the shot. You can shoot in any direction, side to side, up or down.
[QUOTE=genkaz92;52864724]I had a very amusing idea for a hypothetical science fiction gun. It would resemble a saucer like device that would spin at a really high speed and only have a single barrel attached to one side that would spin with in. and the weapon would automatically fire at the right target as soon as the user pulled the trigger regardless of the barrel's position, and since the saucer would be spinning extremely quickly it would determine the position and automatically fire whenever the barrel lined up with the target.
The advantage of the device could consist of hitting targets at wildly different locations extremely quickly as the barrel continued traveling in the circle.[/QUOTE]
can you PM me a visual representation?
otherwise op i'd just go for an AN-94, no need to worry about recoil when you can fire again before the recoil takes effect
[QUOTE=SKEEA;52864352]The AEK-971, AK-107, and AK 108 have what is called a BARS, (Balanced Automatic Recoil System) which uses a countermass that cancels out the force of the gas piston recoiling backwards by going forward at the same time. It works really well. It makes the weapon more complex, but it works.[/QUOTE]
That still doesn't counteract muzzle flip though. Compensators, which are related to muzzle brakes, do somewhat, but not very noticeably on anything that isn't a magnum revolver. The only gun that I know of that DOES counteract muzzle flip effectively is the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KRISS_Vector]KRISS Vector.[/url] It has a hinged mass on the back of the bolt that gets shoved downwards behind the magwell to mitigate upwards recoil force. That's why the body of it is so damn thick. There's about half a pound of steel flying through there with every shot.
It makes the most difference in full-auto firing, not as much effort to keep on target. [video]https://youtu.be/lbqTINMgPCw[/video] Notice how there's almost zero muzzle climb at all, so mowing shit down is easy as hell. You can buy a semi-auto Vector, but they're pricey at $1200 for a pistol version or $1500-1800 + $200 ATF tax for a Short barreled rifle version that has a proper stock.
[QUOTE=zombini;52875049]You can buy a semi-auto Vector, but they're pricey at $1200 for a pistol version or $1500-1800 + $200 ATF tax for a Short barreled rifle version that has a proper stock.[/QUOTE]
What a cool looking gun, looks like something straight out of near future sci fi.
yes its called a muzzle break or recoil compensator.
or you can go like vector and have the bolt cycle downwards as the muzzle climbs upwards
if you want to make a gun that doesn't have recoil why not just make it fire two identical bullets in opposite directions
Just make sure that you get directly between two enemies before using it
edit: oh fuck someone else thought of this first, should have read the topic before posting
[QUOTE=zombini;52875049]That still doesn't counteract muzzle flip though. Compensators, which are related to muzzle brakes, do somewhat, but not very noticeably on anything that isn't a magnum revolver. The only gun that I know of that DOES counteract muzzle flip effectively is the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KRISS_Vector]KRISS Vector.[/url] It has a hinged mass on the back of the bolt that gets shoved downwards behind the magwell to mitigate upwards recoil force. That's why the body of it is so damn thick. There's about half a pound of steel flying through there with every shot.
It makes the most difference in full-auto firing, not as much effort to keep on target. [video]https://youtu.be/lbqTINMgPCw[/video] Notice how there's almost zero muzzle climb at all, so mowing shit down is easy as hell. You can buy a semi-auto Vector, but they're pricey at $1200 for a pistol version or $1500-1800 + $200 ATF tax for a Short barreled rifle version that has a proper stock.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely no reason to buy one other than looks however.
The entire system (gimmick) is designed for full auto fire.
Is there a gun that shoots another gun that shoots a bullet?
[QUOTE=shrinkme;52875458]Is there a gun that shoots another gun that shoots a bullet?[/QUOTE]
Is there a bullet that shoots a gun? Is there a gun which has the emergency backup of the user throwing it and having the gun activate a backup explosive cartridge which propels it at a high speed?
[editline]10th November 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;52875411]if you want to make a gun that doesn't have recoil why not just make it fire two identical bullets in opposite directions
Just make sure that you get directly between two enemies before using it
edit: oh fuck someone else thought of this first, should have read the topic before posting[/QUOTE]
This may be a silly question, but do blank bullets still cause recoil? If they do, it could be possible to design a double fire gun with a double sided magazine, one filled with real bullets and the other one with blank versions of them that fires both at the same time.
If the actual movement of the bullet is the thing that causes the recoil then it could be possible to have a double magazine with a modded second set of bullets which cockblocks the bullets from exiting the barrel somehow or making them not be harmful to the user.
It could be done by having a third loading mechanism of auto stuffing the second anti recoil barrel with a round steel piece which blocks the bullet and then ejects it from the side.
Having a permanent barrel cork would probably not work because the second set of bullets would probably shoot through it eventually, so an alternative to a cork reloader would be to easily replace the fucked up metal blocker at the rear barrel that could screw on and off like a screw.
Maybe there is a way to redirect the force of the bullet explosion downwards without making the gun inherently heavier or much more complicated, but that could probably result in a bullet velocity decrement.
In terms of sci fi there would probably be an arm servo attachment that would artificially make the combatant's arm strong and responsive up to the degree of making it possible to jerk it downwards really quickly to cancel the recoil, but it would have to redirect the recoil force to the equipment and not to the actual human arm.
^
essentially recoiless rifles already do this. most systems vent a charge of gas backwards out of the rifle through some kind of choke which keeps enough in to prepell the projectile forward. now they're nowhere near recoiless but it greatly reduces the recoil. some systems even have a second calibrated charge to provide this thrust instead.
the idea is that your shooter isn't tossed backwards because he's firing a ten pound projectile, or blown backwards by the exhaust from the high powered rockets they also use
in terms of controling muzzle climb though, just using vents at the end of the barrel helps compensate since you get a lot of leverage, but its pretty hard to remove all muzzle climb because of the way people are shaped when they are holding a gun, you're always going to have an induced rotation because of the way forces are transfered through the gun to the human body and outwards.
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