Intending to upgrade my CPU and probably more. Life story included. - Hardware & Software

It is now November and that means that in a few weeks, American Thanksgiving, and eventually Black Friday will arrive. I am intending to use this opportunity to upgrade a few components of my computer (which I will in turn give my old components as hand-me-downs to my family). This will depend partly on if the store does a Black Friday sale here (Canada). [U][B]My current system is as follows:[/B][/U] [B]Motherboard[/B]: ASUS M3N78-VM (Supports AM2/AM2+ with an upgrade to BIOS that I think allows AM3) [B]CPU[/B]: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition @3.20 GHz [B]CPU FAN[/B]: Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus (Box says it also supports Core i7, i5, i3 and AM3.) (Also says it supports LGA 775/1556/1366 & AM2/AM2+/AM3) [B]Memory[/B]: 8 GB DDR2 (5/5/18/23) (Unsure of brand and I'd have to remove my CPU cooler to find out.) [B]GPU[/B]: EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 Ti w/ 1GB Cache [B]PSU[/B]: Corsair VX 550w Power Supply I also have Windows 7 Professional, a 1TB Internal HDD, and a 1TB USB External HDD. I have a 17" 1920x1080 main monitor, and a 1280x1024 secondary monitor on the side. Other peripherals include a TrackIR5, Bamboo tablet, and a simple Logitech laser mouse and mechanical keyboard. I also have spent around $200 on an audio recording setup, particularily a Shure SM57 dynamic studio microphone, and a Xenyx 802 pre-amp. (This unfortunately goes from dual L/R 1/4" to 1/8" mono input which goes into the motherboard's line-in, and I hate it.) [U][B]Why I need an upgrade[/B][/U] There is certainly no doubt my X4 955 is a strong processor. With four cores, I can run many games, and even the newest ones like BF4 and Arma 3 at high graphics settings. While it is always an option that I delay my upgrade a while and wait on other parts, I have certainly been feeling the strain on some of the programs I have been trying to use recently. Not to mention I have family members who are eyeballing my computer parts as they are even in a worse-off condition than me, yet are less aggressive over buying new parts, nor do they run any demanding programs. Recently my younger brother received a new GTX 650 Ti for his birthday, yet to discover with horror that his computer runs just as slow (if not slower) than before (he went from the ATI 5770). He is using my old CPU from 2009 which is an AMD Dual Core clocked at 2.6 Ghz(?), which is obviously the bottleneck. Being that the new graphics card is a hefty upgrade (and even better than mine by a small margin), my family isn't too keen on getting him a new CPU too. This is where my upgrade comes in. Being that I've been becoming less satisfied with my computer (my 560 artifacts frequently and is always overheating at 50c and above, even on idle), and that my CPU doesn't run at the most absolute flawless state which I really honestly shouldn't feel that bad about, I've been eyeing new hardware for around a year. Problem is, the motherboard I have is from my first build back in 2008-2009, so it is very old, and cannot handle any of the new CPUs like the AMD FX, because they are all AM3+ (that one goddamned pin). Because of this, I would need to replace a large part of my computer, and that involves new motherboard, new CPU, and even new ram. Because this is coming out of my own pocket, it comes as no surprise that I haven't done an upgrade yet. Now, paths are starting to merge here, as I've been eyeing new CPUs, and my family knows it, and because my brother is absolutely miserable with the zero-change with his recent upgrade, they are looking at me. Like I said before, my CPU is still a very competent piece of technology, and for my brother, it should keep him very satisfied for the games he plays (only Warframe and XCOM runs good for him, even though he has games like BF3 and Chivalry, etc.) This means that I could upgrade my computer to the REALLY high end, and my brother gets his computer to run his games at a sicknasty speed. Although I could go for [U][B]What I am looking for[/B][/U] It comes as no surprise that I am very involved with computers. Since moving middle schools and away from my friends, I moved almost entirely into computers. After graduating highschool, I've spent almost every waking hour looking at a screen, either playing games or working on some abandoned project. I practically live by the motto "Eat, Sleep, Breathe, Videogames" Although I have little to no talent or experience coding, I am becoming confident in my artistic capabilities. When I was working fixed-term at a local store for christmas season last year, I had generated a bit of money (which is large to me but small to others). This has become my life-savings which I rarely ever tap into, for fear of getting another job again. I've been slowly investing some of my hard-gotten gains on bits and bobs for my computer, with part hobby, part project in mind. While I was working at the retail, I had thought of an idea for a project that struck me like lightning. It threw me into a frenzy and I've had the idea slow-cooking in my mind for the entire year. I have been working and methodically adding to my computer in order to make this project become a reality, and that has included spending $200 on a microphone setup (which admittedly seems a bit fruitless considering the 1/4-1/8 bottleneck that mutilates the sound quality). It is now coming time for me to upgrade my CPU. Although I can play games comfortably, I am going to need it for a lot more productive work from here and ahead. I have already generating assets for models and textures, as well as the world which I will render it all in. I am building these models in Blender and I am putting them into Source Filmmaker for my project, which is going to be an online animated series. I am hoping to generate ad revenue off of it provided I can upload them to youtube at a decent pace, and I am also hoping I could compile it together when it is all finished into some DVD which I could also try to sell. I have also been practicing on my family's guitar almost every day for practically two years, and I've become confident enough in my skills and my songs to use them in production and possibly also compile that into an OST which I could either monetize or just upload to youtube as someone will do it anyways. [U][B]So what do I need?[/B][/U] I intend for [B]very high-quality sound[/B] and [B]low render-times[/B] once I start/finish animating for SFM, and being that SFM renders into lossless AVI, I will probably need to re-compress the video in another program to be small enough to put on Youtube or equivalent. I also want a CPU that can [B]destroy any new or current video games[/B] that may come out. I've been looking at an i7 4770K @3.5 GHz (will probably be ~$350 for the CPU itself, excluding motherboard), but I am also aware of the AMD monopoly on the new consoles, and the effect it would have on future console-ports. I might get a new AMD GPU down the line for that Mantle API if it is worth a damn or if it follows the same path as that Voodoo API ("The voodoo what?" Yeah.. exactly). Also bear in mind that I am unsure if my PSU is up to scratch anymore. 550w is enough for what I have, but is it enough for a new system? [U][B]Budget[/B][/U] I have up to $1000 (of my life savings) I can spend on a new CPU, Motherboard, and RAM. My family is saying that because I'm giving my brother my old CPU, they could buffer a bit of money to help me, which could be possibly around $200, so this could mean either I only need to spend $800 or I could spend $1200. Bear in mind this is incredibly painful for me to drop all of my money considering how dirt-poor I am, but I am also a lazy sack of shit, and if I am really desperate for money, could probably find another job in retail. [U][B]Where I am probably going to buy[/B][/U] I live in Alberta, Canada. Near Calgary. Being that Black Friday is kind of a store thing, I'll probably need to go out and buy it. It really depends on whether the store I'm looking at will do the sale or not, but I might just bite the bullet and buy it anyways. I could possibly buy online but my debit card does not do online purchases, so it gets a lot more complicated that way. It is difficult, but not impossible. I'll be going to a store called Memory Express. Site link here: [url]http://www.memoryexpress.com/[/url] There is a store in NW Calgary, and one in NE Calgary, as well as one SE Calgary. It all depends on how desperate I am, but the closest one is probably NE Calgary. You could also try Newegg.ca if you know of anything better on there. I'm looking at it now and it looks as though they are doing a Black Friday sale(?), where I don't know if Memex will. [url]http://www.newegg.ca/[/url] [U][B]Conclusion[/B][/U] So please, Facepunch. Help me pimp my computer!

Keep in mind i'll be using pcpartpicker to list the prices, so they'll differ from stuff you'll find from memoryexpress/newegg. They can't predict any sales prices either, so i've just picked some baseline components to populate the build [url]http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/20FL5[/url] The processor is an obvious choice, the 4770K. This should give you the best single-core performance for games while being the best haswell processor for compiling and such. Unless you can find a significantly cheaper i7 3770K on a sale, there is no reason to get anything else(keep in mind that you'll need to get a 1555 socket motherboard instead if you find a cheap 3770K) I've added the 212 evo in case you'd want to give your old cooler to your brother alongside your processor. If you don't need a new cooler, don't mind it. You'll need some thermal paste to apply to your old cooler regardless, and you'll need something to remove the old one(nail polish remover containing acetone will work) The MSI G45 Gaming is the recommended motherboard around here, and it has pretty decent sound compared to most other motherboards. You'll probably need a soundcard for professional sound work though. As i've never needed one myself, i'm afraid i can't help you there. I've added two kinds of storage to the list. The 840 EVO is an SSD, which gives crazy improvements to loadtimes and responsiveness to stuff put on it, like your OS or commonly used programs and maybe even games. The WD Blue is usually recommended around here as the best price/performance harddrive, so i've added one to the list in case you'll want more storage. The other recommended alternatives are the 840 Pro for SSD's and WD Black's for harddrives, both offering a slight boost in performance but costing more. I wouldn't bother with these unless they're on a good sale somewhere. As for the graphics card, it's the high-end model of AMD, beating NVidia's by cost and slight performance. Your 660Ti will bottleneck game performance with a new processor, but if you'd rather save money this is a prime thing to cut. Everything should be able to run fine with your PSU wattage, but it'll be cutting awfully close for any serious overclocking. You should think about a CX600M or a CX750M corsair PSU if they're decently cheap and you expect to overclock a lot. The best parts to choose really depend on the sales, but this should work like a guideline

I suggest you get 2 RAM modules instead of 4 for upgradeability's sake. Also the WD Blue is not the best price/performance drive. Seagate's Barracuda (same price within 5 dollars) is much faster (in fact it's faster than WD Black). People go for western digital because they have a better reputation for reliability.

Wow you guys certainly went above and beyond. I can trim the pieces I don't need, but I had never considered a SSD or even getting anything higher than 8GB of memory. It blows my mind that all of this uses less than 550w, so I still have around 100w of breathing room. Just a bit of clarification, my GPU is a 560 Ti, while my brother has a 650 Ti (I don't think he wants to trade). The only real difference between our cards is that mine runs hotter and needs an extra 6-pin PCI-E power connector. Is a card like this not up to snuff these days? I had always figured that it was my CPU bottlenecking and my GPU still had a little more to give, much like my brother's. I was also hearing the AMD CPUs were able to give you just as much bang for less buck. Do you buy into that? I don't see the 212 Evo cooler in the list, but I can find it easily enough on the site. (Which I didn't even know existed, this should save me a lot of time.) What do you mean by 2 RAM modules instead of 4? Do you mean 2 ram slots? 2 sets of 4 slots? What is this Form Factor thing about? ATX? Micro ATX? Mini ITX? Thanks for the help so far, guys. EDIT: I just realized you meant the ram itself, rather than the slottings on the motherboard. Doh.

Don't buy that video card. Gigabyte HD79xx and R9 cards have a horrible failure rate because they overclock the cards too far and probably use binned GPUs that weren't great to begin with. [QUOTE=Leintharien;42834400]I was also hearing the AMD CPUs were able to give you just as much bang for less buck. Do you buy into that?[/QUOTE] Not really. The bulldozer architecture is a disaster. You first have to realize that AMD FX (Bulldozer) CPUs aren't what they're advertised as. The "octa" cores are quads, the hex cores are tris, the quads are duals and the duals are single cores. AMD markets them as such because each core can process two threads, but this is a far cry from actually being what they say they are. About the only thing they can hold ground in is heavily threaded applications. Single thread performance will always be terrible due to threads sharing core resources.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42834400]I was also hearing the AMD CPUs were able to give you just as much bang for less buck. Do you buy into that?[/QUOTE] They do not give [I]as much[/I] bang(nowhere near really), but they are more for people on a budget and still need decent power. And as Gigabite said they really only have half the cores advertised.

I guess I had things entirely backwards, as I was under the assumption that Intel's cores were the ones with less. i7 = 6, i5 = 4, i3 = 2. What was this I was hearing about Intel's chips being marked up in price purely because they were intel? Similarily to Alienwares being 'better just cause'.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42836115]I guess I had things entirely backwards, as I was under the assumption that Intel's cores were the ones with less. i7 = 6, i5 = 4, i3 = 2. What was this I was hearing about Intel's chips being marked up in price purely because they were intel? Similarily to Alienwares being 'better just cause'.[/QUOTE] Well even though they cost more, they deliver a lot more performance than the AMD's equal. For example the FX 6300 is about an i3(maybe a little better in some circumstances), and the 8350's are close to an i5, but the i5 still beats it.

What about warranties? There is no doubt they'll try to shove them down my throat when I go to buy, but the only problem I've ever had with a computer part was my old 8800 GT that died a few months after warranty ended almost 2 years after I bought it. Do you guys think it's worth it? Is there a balance or reasonable medium?

Usually parts will come with a good warranty standard, so there is really no reason to buy an extended warranty unless you really want to.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42836115]I guess I had things entirely backwards, as I was under the assumption that Intel's cores were the ones with less. i7 = 6, i5 = 4, i3 = 2. What was this I was hearing about Intel's chips being marked up in price purely because they were intel? Similarily to Alienwares being 'better just cause'.[/QUOTE] That's not exactly how the Intel line works. I3 = Dual core line I5 = Quad core line I7 = Quad core line with hyper threading (Each core can run two processing threads, giving you a total of 8 CPU threads, as opposed to 4. This is beneficial for programs that can use as many threads as your PC has, such as rendering videos.) Also, Intel is more expensive because they put out significantly superior processors, especially when comparing single-threaded performance and power consumption. AMD's biggest advantage is having a good integrated GPU, so if you're going for a very, very cheap build ($400-600), AMD can fill a nice niche of decent processing power, along with good graphical performance for the price, and the fact that it's integrated. However most people don't recommend AMD processors on modern builds in which you're planning to purchase a dedicated GPU, because unless you're taking advantage of AMD's superior integrated graphics, the only reason to get one is if you're only really doing things that take advantage of their multi-threaded performance/price ratio, like if you do a lot of video processing and can't afford an I5/I7, or dedicated GPU. /end rant

They make the i7's in quad and hexa core.

And what name would those be going by? I mean, I probably wont get those because they are probably $1000+ on their own regard. Just curious.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42837049]And what name would those be going by? I mean, I probably wont get those because they are probably $1000+ on their own regard. Just curious.[/QUOTE] The 4960X if you are talking about the six core i7.

Those are the sandy bridge and ivy bridge e processors, and you are correct. They range from 250 - 1000 dollars usually being on the much higher side of that range. There single core performance is actually worse than the 4670k and 4770k though because they are always a generation behind (there is no haswell-e and there won't be until broadwell comes). They are not worth the cost at all, unless you have a server, and you may as well buy xeon then.

[QUOTE=flayne;42837400]Those are the sandy bridge and ivy bridge e processors, and you are correct. They range from 250 - 1000 dollars usually being on the much higher side of that range. There single core performance is actually worse than the 4670k and 4770k though because they are always a generation behind (there is no haswell-e and there won't be until broadwell comes). They are not worth the cost at all, unless you have a server, and you may as well buy xeon then.[/QUOTE] No there not worth it at all(especially just for gaming), but they do make them. Also for them they have their own socket the 2011. I was just correcting Soulharvester, not recommending it.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42834400]It blows my mind that all of this uses less than 550w, so I still have around 100w of breathing room.[/QUOTE] It's got the watts but it's also got some years on it if it's from 2008-09, might be a good idea to think about replacing it

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42834400]Wow you guys certainly went above and beyond. I can trim the pieces I don't need, but I had never considered a SSD or even getting anything higher than 8GB of memory. It blows my mind that all of this uses less than 550w, so I still have around 100w of breathing room. Just a bit of clarification, my GPU is a 560 Ti, while my brother has a 650 Ti (I don't think he wants to trade). The only real difference between our cards is that mine runs hotter and needs an extra 6-pin PCI-E power connector. Is a card like this not up to snuff these days? I had always figured that it was my CPU bottlenecking and my GPU still had a little more to give, much like my brother's. I was also hearing the AMD CPUs were able to give you just as much bang for less buck. Do you buy into that? I don't see the 212 Evo cooler in the list, but I can find it easily enough on the site. (Which I didn't even know existed, this should save me a lot of time.) What do you mean by 2 RAM modules instead of 4? Do you mean 2 ram slots? 2 sets of 4 slots? What is this Form Factor thing about? ATX? Micro ATX? Mini ITX? Thanks for the help so far, guys. EDIT: I just realized you meant the ram itself, rather than the slottings on the motherboard. Doh.[/QUOTE] The 560Ti/650Ti is in a "budget gaming" niche, it'll "run" your games but it'll bottleneck the instant you get a decent processor, nevermind an i5/i7. The R9 280X on the other hand handles anything you throw at it at 1080p resolutions without known issues. It's really between "cheap budget-card" and "high-end mainstream card" so it's pretty significant. The AMD CPU thing was explained well already. The only time they really offer better performance is for computers designed solely as workstations/for rendering+compiling while staying cheaper than intel. I forgot to update to the link with the 212 evo. oops :v: To clarify, he meant you should get two sticks with 8GB of RAM each instead of four sticks with 4GB. Costs more or less the same. The form factor thingy is the size of motherboards. An ATX motherboard is the standard size, while micro-ATX is somewhat smaller. mini-ITX is for tiny builds. There's no reason not to get ATX unless you're intentionally targetting a tiny form factor, in which case you'd need other components designed to be as small as possible too. Cases have different support for form factors, but most cases support ATX and yours should too. Doesn't hurt to check, however.

Yeah my case is an Antec 300. Quick google search shows it is ATX. So the motherboard listed above is a fairly good fit for me? I was looking at the motherboards at that partfinder site and I found myself quickly up to my neck in terms I don't recognize. Does this motherboard future-proof me for any other upcoming CPUs that Intel might release? Or will I have to buy another one once those come? It would kill me if I'd have to purchase yet another motherboard and respective set of RAM 'just because'. I don't particularly see the audio specs on the builder site, but checking newegg does yield more information. It mentions gold jacks, but I don't think it is 1/4". Guess I'd have to look up a soundcard with two 1/4" sockets at a later time. What is with the HDMI port in the motherboard? Surely it would be the GPU's job for HDMI video output. So what is that one for?

The motherboard HDMI output will output either integrated graphics or the output from the GPU. It's just an alternative output that you probably won't use. I believe Broadwell (Intel's next CPU) is planned to be on a different socket. You won't have to buy new RAM though. DDR4 won't be popular enough by then.

Well for a $350 i7, I should be fine for a few years, right? Should I try to find some lesser motherboard then?

The 4770K is more than good enough for years to come, there's no reason to bother with a cheaper motherboard in case you'll upgrade

Question time again. I've found that although Memex might not do a black friday sale (as the only thing on the site with the name "Black Friday" is for pre-built computer towers) for any of the parts, it might be possible for me to use their price beater thing in conjunction with pcpartpicker to possibly get them/some at the lowest possible price. I've been looking at graphics cards, and I am very lost as to which one I should go for. It seems AMD and NVIDIA are neck and neck when it comes down to GPUs, and I think I've narrowed the list down to either a R9 280x or the GTX 770. I know you guys don't like A vs. B type questions, but if there is any information that would greatly tip odds in another favor (such as if the 770 uses too much power or something), I would really like to know. GiGaBiTe mentioned above that the R9s have a high failure rate, but I can't really find anything that goes with what he is saying. My list of advantages to the cards, that I've managed to find so far is as follows: GTX 770 2GB Cache Shadowplay GForce Experience R9 280x 3GB Cache Mantle API Catalyst Control Centre / Steam Driver Support Now as for pricing, I was going to say that it seemed as though the 770 was slightly more expensive, but after I did a sort list at Memex, they were equally priced there, too. 770 happened to be the cheapest in the list (@ $330), but it is by a group that I've never even heard of (Zotac). Listing from cheapest to expensive, it goes as such: ZOTAC GTX 770 ($329.99 (After -$20)) HIS iPower IceQ R9 280x ($334.99 (After -$5)) MSI R9 280x ($339.99) ASUS 280x ($339.99) GIGABYTE 280x ($339.99) MSI N770(?) GTX 770 ($339.99) etc.. It progressively gets more expensive as it goes. So what about the temperatures? Are the fans loud? Does one overheat at idle while the other doesn't? Any history I should know about? Power usage? Failure rates? Personal experiences?

The GTX 770 is slower and more expensive than the R9 280X normally (they're normally $300). I'm not sure why those prices are showing the opposite thing. Also Gigabite was saying Gigabyte's R9 280Xs had bad failure rates not R9 280Xs in general. I would go for the MSI R9 280X.

So I've built my probable build list from the one you guys have suggested for me and the ones I had found. [url]http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/26pVp[/url] So long as I don't buy 3 of each part, I should be fine with using memex's pricebeat with PC partpicker for ultimate deals. Pricebeat won't work on BlackFriday / CyberMonday so I'll have to wait until I see the Black Friday prices before I can continue to decide which and when I'll buy. I decided to stick with 16GB of ram (4x 4GB), as I don't really feel as though I would ever need to upgrade to 32GB. I had found a cheaper one than the one suggested, and it is cheapest at Memex. Although I don't really know what the CAS latency timings mean so they could be bad in comparison(?). But it is quad channel! The MSI R9 280x is out of stock right now everywhere, but I'm under the hope that they will regain stock in time for Black Friday. The motherboard seems a bit expensive but I am so lost when I look at them, and if you guys really think its the best one for me, I guess I'll give it a go. (The description page at memex for the G45 is like I'm looking at WWII wartime propaganda posters.) I decided that I will buy an SSD. I do have a primary 1TB HD already, but it clicks like a geiger counter at Chernobyl NPP / Fukushima Daiichi exclusion zones, and it has me worried. So I want to reformat and move important data onto the SSD or my lifeboat just in case it happens to fail on me. EDIT: I just realized that setting all of them to the Memory Express prices made a difference of +$50. All that effort for trying to find the best prices, and the best I could do was $50. I hope Black Friday yields better results. [url]http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/26quK[/url]

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42944519]So I've built my probable build list from the one you guys have suggested for me and the ones I had found. [url]http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/26pVp[/url] So long as I don't buy 3 of each part, I should be fine with using memex's pricebeat with PC partpicker for ultimate deals. Pricebeat won't work on BlackFriday / CyberMonday so I'll have to wait until I see the Black Friday prices before I can continue to decide which and when I'll buy. I decided to stick with 16GB of ram (4x 4GB), as I don't really feel as though I would ever need to upgrade to 32GB. I had found a cheaper one than the one suggested, and it is cheapest at Memex. Although I don't really know what the CAS latency timings mean so they could be bad in comparison(?). But it is quad channel! The MSI R9 280x is out of stock right now everywhere, but I'm under the hope that they will regain stock in time for Black Friday. The motherboard seems a bit expensive but I am so lost when I look at them, and if you guys really think its the best one for me, I guess I'll give it a go. (The description page at memex for the G45 is like I'm looking at WWII wartime propaganda posters.) I decided that I will buy an SSD. I do have a primary 1TB HD already, but it clicks like a geiger counter at Chernobyl NPP / Fukushima Daiichi exclusion zones, and it has me worried. So I want to reformat and move important data onto the SSD or my lifeboat just in case it happens to fail on me. EDIT: I just realized that setting all of them to the Memory Express prices made a difference of +$50. All that effort for trying to find the best prices, and the best I could do was $50. I hope Black Friday yields better results. [url]http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/26quK[/url][/QUOTE] Your CPU doesn't support quad channel, it's still dual channel.

Oh good catch. I've changed it to a different one. CAS timings seem a bit middleground on PCPP, but it is 16GB and it is Dual Channel. [url]http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/gskill-memory-f312800cl10d16gbxl[/url]