External Graphics Card Thread v1 - What is this shit? - Hardware & Software

[B]External Graphics Card? What is this? [/B] An external graphics card is a graphics card that operates outside of a computer (usually a laptop) to boost gaming performance (or other GPU related activities). [B] How is this possible? [/B]A company by the name of BPLUS ([URL="http://www.hwtools.net"]www.hwtools.net[/URL]) produces many adapters to allow the use of desktop PCIe cards on a system not intended for it. The PE4L v2.1b is currently the best solution for most people, providing a 1x desktop PCIe slot connected either by ExpressCard, or mini pcie which is usually used for WIFI and BlueTooth cards. [B]What are the reasons I would want to create an External GPU setup?[/B] -Get better performance out of an existing laptop without getting a whole new laptop or desktop. -Have better gaming performance per £ in a new setup. A second hand Lenovo X220, PE4L, and GeForce 650Ti will beat any laptop in that price range. -Add output capabilities to a laptop which does not support them, for example a 2560x1440 display, or driving many (4+) displays in a multi-monitor or mirrored setup. -A unified setup. Use a small (12.5) laptop on the road/at uni/etc, and when returning home, dock to your External GPU to provide desktop-level gaming performance whilst not having to install all of your programs and games twice, and not having to worry about keeping your documents in sync. A ultraportable in the lecture theatre can become a gaming machine in your room. [B]What are the disadvantages of an External GPU?[/B] -The GPU requires a source of power. For GPU's less than 203W, an XBox 360 power supply can be used as a cheap solution. With any GPU with a TDP over 203W an appropriate ATX PSU would be needed. -The GPU is only connected via a 1x PCIe express link, as opposed to a 16x link in a standard desktop. This reduces performance, however some games are more affected than others by this loss of bandwidth. This is somewhat mitigated if the system has a select range of Intel cards (HD Graphics), and the External GPU is NVidia Fermi or greater. -Some laptops cannot fit an External GPU into the PCIe address space. This can often be sorted with the use of a software known as Setup 1.x, however this increases the faff of setting up the GPU. It is considered that any laptop which already features two graphics cards will be tricky to use an External Graphics Card without fidling. [B] What is the ideal setup hardware wise?[/B] -A Laptop with an Intel Core I Series processor (any generation) and an Expresscard 2.0 slot. -A NVidia Fermi or later GPU. The reason for this is upon detecting a 1x PCIe link, the NVidia driver firstly engages PCIe data compression, increasing performance from anything between 20-333%, and also lets the External Graphics Card drive the internal laptop display, as the functionality mirrors Optimus Switchable Graphics. Whilst there are ways to drive the internal LCD with an AMD/ATI card, PCIe compression is not present, thus causing a larger potential bottleneck. -If starting fresh, a Lenovo X220 makes the ideal External Graphics Card companion, as Lenovo specifically changed the BIOS to make external GPUs work as close to plug-and-play as possible. [B] Do any Facepunchers use an External GPU? [/B]Currently, I am the only user I know of who uses an External GPU. This is my current setup (Lenovo X220T, PE4L v2.1b, XBox 360 203W PSU, 650Ti, and generic Maplins project box). [IMG_THUMB]http://i.imgur.com/Ra3p2nm.jpg[/IMG_THUMB] [IMG_THUMB]http://i.imgur.com/FaSLoXc.jpg[/IMG_THUMB] If you own a External Graphics Card, are considering making one, or are just curious, feel free to discuss here, and I will try and help answer any questions.

Good thread and OP, but there's a reason external GPU's haven't caught on. * Adding a beefy GPU to an older laptop will probably get bottlenecked by the older CPU. * Separate power source (decent cards need atx psu) * cumbersome, removes portability factor. Theres probably a lot more.

I was going to buy into one of their kits to put a Professional PCI-E Audio interface into for a portable recording rig. Went with a Mini ITX build in the end but they (HWTools) make some pretty bloody niche products.

[QUOTE=Brandy92;39891832]Good thread and OP, but there's a reason external GPU's haven't caught on. * Adding a beefy GPU to an older laptop will probably get bottlenecked by the older CPU. * Separate power source (decent cards need atx psu) * cumbersome, removes portability factor. Theres probably a lot more.[/QUOTE] I do agree to a point, although I believe that a fair amount of people just do not know this is possible. [B]* Adding a beefy GPU to an older laptop will probably get bottlenecked by the older CPU.[/B] This is 100% true and right. An older laptop will also not support PCIE Gen2, thus the PCIe connection its self will be more of a bottleneck. [B]* Separate power source (decent cards need atx psu)[/B] A 660Ti, which is a very decent card only needs 170W, which can be provided by the 203W XBOX PSU. Working examples with a 660Ti and XBOX PSU have been created. [B]* cumbersome, removes portability factor.[/B] This is also a big flaw, however if utmost portability is a concern a Clevo or similar should be your first port of call. Saying that, my setup with PSU + my mechanical keyboard can fit in a decent size backpack. Having a very portable laptop but a GPU waiting at home is one of the main benefits. [editline]12th March 2013[/editline] Also thanks for being kind, tis my first OP.

Also check out this thread: [url]http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu-projects/2109-diy-egpu-experiences-%5Bversion-2-0%5D.html[/url] And its subform: [url]http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu-projects/[/url] It's extremely resourceful for eGPU related stuff

[QUOTE=B!N4RY;39892266]Also check out this thread: [url]http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu-projects/2109-diy-egpu-experiences-%5Bversion-2-0%5D.html[/url] And its subform: [url]http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu-projects/[/url] It's extremely resourceful for eGPU related stuff[/QUOTE] I concur, this is where I learnt all of my eGPU stuff too. I thought it'd be more appropriate for facepunch to introduce it on a higher level first before getting into the nitty gritty details.

How well would an eGPU work with a HP 6730s? 2.26GHZ penryn 3m core 2 duo p8400 4GB DDR2 GM45 (intergrated GPU, is utter shite) ICH9M Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit And most importantly, an express card 54 slot. [editline]13th March 2013[/editline] And there's the solder pads for another mPCIE slot.

I sorta did this with my T61 and an Advanced Dock. Doesn't work very well because the GPU I used (Sapphire 6570) is just SLIGHTLY too big, and it can't be cooled properly. And it shorts out if you jiggle it around because of a retarded piece of metal in the PCI bay thing in the dock :v:

[QUOTE=spinpoint F3;39893261]How well would an eGPU work with a HP 6730s?2.26GHZ penryn 3m core 2 duo p84004GB DDR2GM45 (intergrated GPU, is utter shite)ICH9MWindows 7 ultimate 64 bitAnd most importantly, an express card 54 slot.[editline]13th March 2013[/editline]And there's the solder pads for another mPCIE slot.[/QUOTE] Is the graphics card a GMA 4500MHD?Can you post the Device ID of the Intel Card?

Can you do it with USB 3.0?

[QUOTE=RoboChimp;39898163]Can you do it with USB 3.0?[/QUOTE] There are commercially available USB3.0 Graphics cards, however they are really only for adding more monitors. I am not aware of any USB to PCIe adapters, as PCIe is a much lower level standard. Due to the way USB works, if you did try to run any kind of decent GPU over it, you'd have horrible latency, crap FPS and really high CPU usage. If the purpose of your eGPU is gaming, then PCIe (Over Expesscard, mini pcie, or thunderbolt) is the only way to go. But if you just want to add monitors, or run a 2560x1440 etc monitor on a laptop which does not support it, the [URL="http://www.scan.co.uk/products/evga-uv-plusplus-uv39-usb-to-dvi-hdmi-vga-converter-upto-2048x1152-hd-res"]UV Plus+39 [/URL] is a good shout.

Dammit, my laptop only has eSATA and USB inputs :C I would've used my GTX 280 for this if that wasn't the case.

[QUOTE=paul simon;39898516]Dammit, my laptop only has eSATA and USB inputs :C I would've used my GTX 280 for this if that wasn't the case.[/QUOTE] If your laptop has a wifi card, it is possible that you could use the mini-pcie PE4L version, however this would require removal of the wifi card, and obviously the bottom panel whenever you wanted to use the eGPU.

[QUOTE=rhx123;39898707]If your laptop has a wifi card, it is possible that you could use the mini-pcie PE4L version, however this would require removal of the wifi card, and obviously the bottom panel whenever you wanted to use the eGPU.[/QUOTE] Oh, well that kind of ruins the purpose of the laptop :v:

Not enough mentions of Thunderbolt. Most higher-end laptops nowadays should sport 'em.

My eSATA port has three logos by it, eSATA, USB3 and a lightning bolt. I guess it's a 3-in-1 thing that also supports thunderbolt then?

[QUOTE=paul simon;39898788]My eSATA port has three logos by it, eSATA, USB3 and a lightning bolt. I guess it's a 3-in-1 thing that also supports thunderbolt then?[/QUOTE] No, that'l be eSATAP, which is a way of powering eSATA devices with the USB power lines. [editline]13th March 2013[/editline] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATAp[/url] [editline]13th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Van-man;39898759]Not enough mentions of Thunderbolt. Most higher-end laptops nowadays should sport 'em.[/QUOTE] There are currently no DIY adapters available for thunderbolt; there are a few professional ones but the cost for the adapter alone eclipses a fairly decent desktop build price. Also, the number of modern laptops that aren't apple machines that feature thunderbolt can probably be counted on one hand. MS doesn't like thunderbolt.

The new Ultrabooks with Ivy Bridge CPU-s should have a thunderbolt connection. I remember reading that it was a requirement to be called an ultrabook, but Wikipedia says differently (USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt)

[QUOTE=tratzzz;39899415]The new Ultrabooks with Ivy Bridge CPU-s should have a thunderbolt connection. I remember reading that it was a requirement to be called an ultrabook, but Wikipedia says differently (USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt)[/QUOTE] This rumour has been going around for ages. First it was Sandy Ultrabooks, then Ivy. The only feasible way I see Thunderbolt becoming more widely available in Windows machines is if it is integrated onto the die of Hawswell, especially with Microsoft's alleged dislike of TB. Manufacturers will choose USB3 as that is integrated therefore adds less to the BOM cost. And anyway, in it's current implantation it is not much better for eGPUs. It only currently provides PCIe 2.0 2x functionality (at least it did with the BPLUS/HWTOOLS adapter before Intel killed it). This can be eclipsed by the 1x with NVidia compression, which brings me onto the second point that driving the internal screen becomes much harder over TB, again currently due to the Optimus only kicking in when a 1x link is detected. [editline]13th March 2013[/editline] Plus thunderbolt hardware costs more. [editline]13th March 2013[/editline] If NVidia were to Enabled Optimus mode over any link, and both the laptop and adapter side supported PCIE3.0, then we would be effectively seeing PCIE 2.0 8x performance, which would remove the bottleneck almost completely on most low to fairly high end Kepler cards.

[QUOTE=RoboChimp;39898163]Can you do it with USB 3.0?[/QUOTE] No you cannot. USB 3.0's architecture is drastically different than PCI-e, and even if some sort of bridge does exist, it most likely will choke the bandwidth to nothing [editline]13th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Van-man;39898759]Not enough mentions of Thunderbolt. Most higher-end laptops nowadays should sport 'em.[/QUOTE] Problem with thunderbolt is that there are no "cheap" adapters. BPlus made a ~$200 adapter recently but recalled it as a lot of them doesn't work. Most commercial pci>tb solutions costs $500-$1000

Huh - now I'm tempted to get a few more years out of my loyal GTX460 like this as a college solution - far cheaper than building from scratch. Adding insult to injury is the fact that I have the misery of being issued a "future-proofed" laptop with a frigging i7-2620M in it - presumably they intended for us to go datacrunching when we're not typing up essays; in any case it probably gets more per-core than the grody old PII X4 965 that's currently running alongside it.

[QUOTE=HubmaN;39900289]Huh - now I'm tempted to get a few more years out of my loyal GTX460 like this as a college solution - far cheaper than building from scratch. Adding insult to injury is the fact that I have the misery of being issued a "future-proofed" laptop with a frigging i7-2620M in it - presumably they intended for us to go datacrunching when we're not typing up essays; in any case it probably gets more per-core than the grody old PII X4 965 that's currently running alongside it.[/QUOTE] What model of laptop is it? I will look into it for you. You have all the requirements (Sandy Bridge CPU, Fermi GPU) for a 1.2Opt configuration, the fastest available. [editline]13th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=B!N4RY;39899695] Problem with thunderbolt is that there are no "cheap" adapters. BPlus made a ~$200 adapter recently but recalled it as a lot of them doesn't work. Most commercial pci>tb solutions costs $500-$1000[/QUOTE] There is much speculation the adapter was recalled at the request of Intel due to it not being certified by them. I don't ever recall any reports of a TH05 doing anything bad to a system or not working outside the scope of incorrect configuration. See [URL="http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu-projects/2680-th05-recall-notice.html"]this[/URL] thread.

[QUOTE=rhx123;39900468]What model of laptop is it? I will look into it for you. You have all the requirements (Sandy Bridge CPU, Fermi GPU) for a 1.2Opt configuration, the fastest available.[/QUOTE] Huh, thanks for that. It's a nice gesture when I'm stressing about getting arrangements worked out for nearly every goddamn thing. It's an [url=http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/tablets/product-detail.html?oid=5071191]HP EliteBook 2760p[/url] (don't be fooled by the pretty promo shots - the damn "brushed metal" is plastic) - AFAIK, it's got the "slim" type ExpressCard slot. I presume Optimus doesn't impose any chipset requirements or anything?

[QUOTE=HubmaN;39900595]Huh, thanks for that. It's a nice gesture when I'm stressing about getting arrangements worked out for nearly every goddamn thing. It's an [url=http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/tablets/product-detail.html?oid=5071191]HP EliteBook 2760p[/url] (don't be fooled by the pretty promo shots - the damn "brushed metal" is plastic) - AFAIK, it's got the "slim" type ExpressCard slot. I presume Optimus doesn't impose any chipset requirements or anything?[/QUOTE] No, as long as you have the correct iGPU and eGPU, Optimus will engage. Your machine looks good to go for an eGPU. All you would need to buy is a PE4L v2.1b with ExpressCard Adpater, and a method of powering the card. The TDP is in the limit of the XBOX 203W PSU, so you could use one of those so they are rather cheap (at least in England), or a standard ATX PSU. It should be plug-and-play.

Lovely, lovely. Now I get to bide my time until I get through exams. I'm not convinced I'll be able to use the XBox PSU, though - an odd tic with the GTX 460s is that they use 2 6-pin PCI power connectors.

[QUOTE=rhx123;39900468] There is much speculation the adapter was recalled at the request of Intel due to it not being certified by them. I don't ever recall any reports of a TH05 doing anything bad to a system or not working outside the scope of incorrect configuration. See [URL="http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu-projects/2680-th05-recall-notice.html"]this[/URL] thread.[/QUOTE] I didnt' say it broke anything, i just said it doesn't work for a lot of systems

[QUOTE=B!N4RY;39900886]I didnt' say it broke anything, i just said it doesn't work for a lot of systems[/QUOTE] Yeah, that's true, but all BPlus products are sold to the public as "engineering samples" which should be expected to not work perfectly with all systems. Recalling an engineering sample for reasons such as not working with some systems when the purpose of a sample is really to test what systems it works with rings a few alarm bells at least. [editline]13th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=HubmaN;39900868]Lovely, lovely. Now I get to bide my time until I get through exams. I'm not convinced I'll be able to use the XBox PSU, though - an odd tic with the GTX 460s is that they use 2 6-pin PCI power connectors.[/QUOTE] It's perfectly feasable to wire it up that way, even with one 6-pin power connector I had to make my own adapter. If you are comfortable with stripping and joining wires, it's easy enough to use an xbox one, but if you'd rather an out-of-the-box solution, a standard ATX PSU is certainly the way to go.

I just might - it'll offer me an upgrade path when I finally put some roots down. Thanks for the advice, though.

PCI slots have always confused me. There is all this talk of x1, x2, x4, and x16, how do I find out which one I have and which eGPU solution I should take advantage of? I'm using a Lenovo y480 with an mPCIe slot.

The number is simply the number of PCIe Lanes that the connector has. PCIe cards are lane-independent, so a 1x card in a 16x slot will work fine, as a 16x card will work in a 1x slot, but only at 1/16th of the bandwidth because there are only 1/16th of the lanes available. [IMG]http://i.dell.com/images/global/learnmore/pcie_connector.jpg[/IMG] For you, the best eGPU solution is [URL]http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4L V2.1.html[/URL], with a Fermi or later GPU. You would have to take the bottom off to use it as there is no ExpressCard slot.