Best match of dreamhack for sure, it just showed a strategy change can impact the whole game.
Taken from the CSGO thread.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb_OI13vDkU[/media]
Hilarious.
Except now they will be DQ'd for a boost they did earlier against another team. GG
[QUOTE=ovoxo;46596450]Except now they will be DQ'd for a boost they did earlier against another team. GG[/QUOTE]
You're thinking of a different boost.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;46596480]Why is it such a big deal? This is actually an interesting thing since you need to have good teamplay and timing to pull this out[/QUOTE]
It's a big deal because LDLC were winning by a landslide.
Fnatic started using this to basically see half the map at once, which is kind of against the way CT team is played (either gamble with all players protecting one site or split up so terrorists have the number advantage on attack), meaning they can immediately respond to attack on any bombsite.
LDLC did not realize for 10 straight rounds where they were being shot/spotted from and by the time they realized it was too late.
The even bigger deal is that the boost is arguably against the rules, since it relies on a map bug that shouldn't be there - it allows you to pixelwalk (is it or is it not actually pixelwalking is the argument here, pixelwalking is against the rules) which means walking on a basically nonexistent ledge.
The decision still hasn't been reached.
EDIT: Another thing to point out is that Fnatic knew about it for 2 months (which was a admitted on DH stream by a player) and not submitting it to Valve as a bug, and also alledgedly telling someone to remove a video of the boost when it was discovered so they have the upper hand in the next tournament. That makes the usage of this, what is unarguably a map bug, premeditated, which makes it kinda very shady and dicky.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;46596480]Why is it such a big deal? This is actually an interesting thing since you need to have good teamplay and timing to pull this out[/QUOTE]
Your using tools that are available to you in game
1. Common Sense
2. Rifle
3. The Buddy System
As far as I'm concerned that was fair game
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;46596480]Why is it such a big deal? This is actually an interesting thing since you need to have good teamplay and timing to pull this out[/QUOTE]
Buy Scar-20, jump on teammate and get 3 frags.
[QUOTE=roxter;46596535]Buy Scar-20, jump on teammate and get 3 frags.[/QUOTE]
It's not quite that simple, you'd need one person to pixel walk like in the image below, another to provide a boost to jump on top of that person, and then you have a sniping spot that covers half of the map.
[T]http://i.imgur.com/sq9444M.png[/T]
[T]http://i.imgur.com/9vjGMf9.jpg[/T]
This is obviously not intentional by the map makers and it gives an even bigger advantage to an already CT sided map.
I might not be the biggest CS:GO guy out there. But how is this any different than the Dota 2 exploit Navi did during TI3? Where pudge would hook someone with the help of chen to "Fountain Hook" the enemies for a granted kill. TI3 Admins called it legal and even some of the Devs thought it was funny. Navi did not get any consequences either and the "Bug" was patched a month later.
[video=youtube;J5I-5eo_vDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5I-5eo_vDM[/video]
[QUOTE=leetnoobify;46596586]
[T]http://i.imgur.com/9vjGMf9.jpg[/T][/QUOTE]
That image does not do it justice, though. The surfaces are, as far as you can see in the editor, perfectly parallel (player clip recolored to solid color so it's easier to see)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/q1NQ9H3.png[/img]
Slightly different viewing angle it becomes invisible because of the way rendering works
[img]http://i.imgur.com/aDKcw4s.png[/img]
View of one corner at maximum zoom in Hammer editor (same on other corner)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/J4LUJdD.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;46596510]Your using tools that are available to you in game
1. Common Sense
2. Rifle
3. The Buddy System
As far as I'm concerned that was fair game[/QUOTE]
DH games have a rulebook
[QUOTE=Minimal;46596602]I might not be the biggest CS:GO guy out there. But how is this any different than the Dota 2 exploit Navi did during TI3? Where pudge would hook someone with the help of chen to "Fountain Hook" the enemies for a granted kill. TI3 Admins called it legal and even some of the Devs thought it was funny. Navi did not get any consequences either and the "Bug" was patched a month later.
[video=youtube;J5I-5eo_vDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5I-5eo_vDM[/video][/QUOTE]
that's not an exploit though, it uses mechanics that are supposed to be in the game
[QUOTE=Minimal;46596602]I might not be the biggest CS:GO guy out there. But how is this any different than the Dota 2 exploit Navi did during TI3? Where pudge would hook someone with the help of chen to "Fountain Hook" the enemies for a granted kill. TI3 Admins called it legal and even some of the Devs thought it was funny. Navi did not get any consequences either and the "Bug" was patched a month later.
[video=youtube;J5I-5eo_vDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5I-5eo_vDM[/video][/QUOTE]
"Dendi Express" haha I love it
[QUOTE=Minimal;46596602]I might not be the biggest CS:GO guy out there. But how is this any different than the Dota 2 exploit Navi did during TI3? Where pudge would hook someone with the help of chen to "Fountain Hook" the enemies for a granted kill. TI3 Admins called it legal and even some of the Devs thought it was funny. Navi did not get any consequences either and the "Bug" was patched a month later.
[video=youtube;J5I-5eo_vDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5I-5eo_vDM[/video][/QUOTE]
This was known well before this match, it was left it because it was "too funny to fix", then this match happened which abused the shit out of it and they fixed it.
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;46596510]Your using tools that are available to you in game
1. Common Sense
2. Rifle
3. The Buddy System
As far as I'm concerned that was fair game[/QUOTE]
Pixelwalking is against Dreamhack rules.
It's not fair game.
[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;46596480]Why is it such a big deal? This is actually an interesting thing since you need to have good teamplay and timing to pull this out[/QUOTE]
I think the issue is that the maps in CS are tested and tested until they're as balanced as they can be with current technology, which should always result in a fair fight. Fnatic managed to exploit a mapping mistake that enabled them to get a map-based advantage that the other team would have been unable to replicate, meaning that success stopped being about conventional gameplay.
Dreamhack announced that the match will be replayed, if anyone's curious.
[QUOTE=Swiket;46597837]Dreamhack announced that the match will be replayed, if anyone's curious.[/QUOTE]
Not just replayed, but starting completely over at 0 - 0, instead of 13 - 3 which was the score before the boosting.
Isn't this basically camping?
Back in my day there was only one way to deal with people who can't play by the rules.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AgZBSI7f4[/media]
First all of their aimbotting and now this?
Not a good day for Fnatic, I guess...
[QUOTE=pentium;46597975]Isn't this basically camping?
Back in my day there was only one way to deal with people who can't play by the rules.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-AgZBSI7f4[/media][/QUOTE]
How much money do you think that dude got in the lawsuit?
Not legal by any stretch of the imagination.
I agree with starting the match over, but it should be started at 13-3. They want to stack the odds against them? Make them replay the same circumstances without their game saving bullshit.
[QUOTE=Minimal;46596602]I might not be the biggest CS:GO guy out there. But how is this any different than the Dota 2 exploit Navi did during TI3? Where pudge would hook someone with the help of chen to "Fountain Hook" the enemies for a granted kill. TI3 Admins called it legal and even some of the Devs thought it was funny. Navi did not get any consequences either and the "Bug" was patched a month later.
[video=youtube;J5I-5eo_vDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5I-5eo_vDM[/video][/QUOTE]
Known before the match by players and devs, left in, originally considered intended and most importantly: [b]wasn't against the tournament's rules[/b].
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;46598538]How much money do you think that dude got in the lawsuit?[/QUOTE]
0$
Because it was staged.
[QUOTE=Demolitions2;46597866]Not just replayed, but starting completely over at 0 - 0, instead of 13 - 3 which was the score before the boosting.[/QUOTE]
Because LDLC also used a boost spot that broke the rules (just not near as overpowered).
Just an update: Fnatic forfeited the match. LDLC advances.
[QUOTE=Murkrow;46596648]That image does not do it justice, though. The surfaces are, as far as you can see in the editor, perfectly parallel (player clip recolored to solid color so it's easier to see)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/q1NQ9H3.png[/img]
Slightly different viewing angle it becomes invisible because of the way rendering works
[img]http://i.imgur.com/aDKcw4s.png[/img]
View of one corner at maximum zoom in Hammer editor (same on other corner)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/J4LUJdD.png[/img][/QUOTE]
due to the way rendering in hammer works, if a face is even close to another it will cause z-fighting. Also hammer is imprecise on corners, so it's most likely hammer screwing up on the corner and making a very small area of space you can walk on.
[QUOTE=Bo98;46599202]Because LDLC also used a boost spot that broke the rules (just not near as overpowered).[/QUOTE]
For 2 rounds to try and combat Fnatic's iirc.
Also it took the admins 6 hours to process LDLC's complaint but were able to mysteriously process Fnatic's in 30 minutes. LDLC's coach was kicked out but they allowed Fnatic's to stay.
This tournament has been a complete farce.
[editline]29th November 2014[/editline]
Also, according to the rulebook, the rounds should be forfeited, not reset, but LDLC[url=https://twitter.com/LDLC_NBK/status/538666986981851136] never got the rulebook[/url] so they wouldn't know.
[editline]29th November 2014[/editline]
Or, as hellspawn, dreamhack employee, said in an interview, "We came to the conclusion that moving rounds according to the rules wouldn't be fair in any way"
[QUOTE=Murkrow;46599673]Just an update: Fnatic forfeited the match. LDLC advances.[/QUOTE]
Glad they decided to. Dreamhack are now the only ones who look stupid, instead of it being both of them.
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