I wouldn't go as far as saying WoW killed the genre, maybe hurt though.
Eve Online did pretty well with accessibility imo, old players have a very good advantage, but new players can still jump right into the game.
A newbie can join a corp and be ratting or pvping in groups in lowsec within a week, maybe less.
I played EQ for years and my highest level character was a 47 druid. Love the game, but the levels probably wouldn't of taken as long if the enemies didn't get so god damn damage spongey. Was fun at the time, but I hope it never returns that way.
Isn't dead yet. ArcheAge/Black Desert/World of Darkness are coming to save the day.
[quote=Mark Kern]It's not the end game that we should be worried about, it's the journey. An MMO should be savored, a lifetime of experiences contained within a single, beautifully crafted world. The moment to moment gameplay should be its own reward. You should feel like you could live your whole life there,"[/quote]
Damn, that is an awesome ideology. I wish more games were like this. Not just MMOs, but a bunch of games should have this kind of philosophy that we should play it moment-by-moment, not highlight-by-highlight.
I dunno eve is doing pretty good.
[editline]1st July 2013[/editline]
but wow did kill the fantasy and ~magic~ genre because everything ever copies the way it's done in wow.
[QUOTE]An MMO should be savored, a lifetime of experiences contained within a single, beautifully crafted world. The moment to moment gameplay should be its own reward. You should feel like you could live your whole life there.[/QUOTE]
We have a term for it, it used to be called building virtual worlds -- not simply a game. Back in my early SWG days I never even left Tatooine for my first 2 months of playing. That could have been the whole game for me; that there were so many other planets was almost unnerving considering how much time and gameplay I had got from just the one (I once took a shuttle to Naboo, took a look outside the spaceport and said "this is outside my comfort zone fuck this" and went right back to Tat) Between the player created content (that is to say us as players deciding "let's go do this because fun" rather than "this is the next quest chain"), managing my own business (player housing used as personal shops will forever be a move of genius that is sorely missed), and simply discovering the world around me -- it took me almost 5 years before I could say I "finished" SWG and actually got heavily into the end-game PvP (lacking anything else to do by that point, admittedly some of my very best memories come from the PvP scene in that game so maybe all those years were wasted potential but eh, hindsight).
Frankly MMO's are dead to me nowadays, they don't even feel like they're part of the genre I used to be part of anymore, feeling very much like a [I]game[/I] over the virtual world ideal of old. Maybe people like that now, I would assume so given WoW's popularity, but I do not and will always consider it a massive, shameful leap backwards in the gaming medium.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;41269948]World of Darkness? Isn't that basically just Twilight: MMO edition?[/QUOTE]
Because Vampires = Twilight, right? WoD is an amalgam of different supernatural stuff with the most prevalent being Vampires.
There is a simple test to see if he is right. If ten years from now no one is playing MMOs, then we have a winner. Same thing happened with shooters(real shooters with space ships not run and guns), 2D platformers, and fighters.
But all is not lost; in another decade they shall return in even greater glory. :smile:
I agree
But still, WoW must've done something right because I'm still fucking playing it :(
[QUOTE=Atlascore;41269948]World of Darkness? Isn't that basically just Twilight: MMO edition?[/QUOTE]
Fuck no, World of Darkness been a different series about vampires... heard of the game called Vampires: The Masquerade? World of Darkness is like that... If I play that game, i'll play a Malkavian.
next time you don't know about anything about a game, look it up, find books about it, there could be shit loads of stuff... I won't be surprised that the people who watch "Games of Thrones" did not realized that movie came from the book "A Song of Ice and Fire".
[QUOTE=Atlascore;41269948]World of Darkness? Isn't that basically just Twilight: MMO edition?[/QUOTE]
World of Darkness is a sandbox MMO made by CCP (EVE minus space) based on the supernatural pen and paper roleplaying game. From what was seen at EVE Fanfest 2013, it's definitely looking great.
VanCleef 4 lyfe
It's true. WoW sure as hell ruined SWG.
[QUOTE=Kazumi;41271091]It's true. WoW sure as hell ruined SWG.[/QUOTE]
Yep, I'd say it's the main factor in its death thanks in part to the incompetence of the SOE staff at the time.
[quote]It's not the end game that we should be worried about, it's the journey. An MMO should be savored, a lifetime of experiences contained within a single, beautifully crafted world. The moment to moment gameplay should be its own reward. You should feel like you could live your whole life there,"[/quote]
Fucking golden words. Back in 2006, when I first bought WoW and started playing on Terenas, I fucked a dog whole month which was offered to me socializing and getting interesting new friends, just hanging out at Goldshire or going for a walk in Redridge. Those were beastly time.
I wish I could go back in time, just right now, and speak more maturely with those fellows like I once did....
[QUOTE=Atlascore;41269948]World of Darkness? Isn't that basically just Twilight: MMO edition?[/QUOTE]
Huh....you really should read books more...Ever heard of Bram Stoker?
keep in mind this is an old blizzard dev working on the new NEW IDEAS HOLY SHIT mmo - he has a point that wow killed something, itself
you do have to notice that when the lich king, which was the mascot of the 2009 expansion, is the title picture - there has been nothing memorable ever since
there were a lot of games trying to copy wow, but that's how it is - people never copied Marathon from bungie because no matter how enjoyable it was it sucked to try to imitate it, so they copied doom and etc because it worked
while innovation is sometimes lost within the big titles (Beyond Good and Evil) its often recognized, and WoW lived a healthy, long life and still is in its well earned place, and regardless of previous tries, it EARNED to title a genre, and never forget that, especially not when some dropout blizz dev says something degrading.
I've never even played it.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;41269948]World of Darkness? Isn't that basically just Twilight: MMO edition?[/QUOTE]
According to the devs, the vampires don't sparkle, and "Edward" and "Bella" are illegal names.
World of Warcraft didn't ruin MMOs
Accessibility ruined gaming
Sorry but it's not Blizzard's fault when every new MMO to come out hasn't tried anything really different from the WoW formula. Blizzard was insanely successful with WoW and rightfully so.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;41271516]Fucking golden words. Back in 2006, when I first bought WoW and started playing on Terenas, [B]I fucked a dog whole month[/B] which was offered to me socializing and getting interesting new friends, just hanging out at Goldshire or going for a walk in Redridge. Those were beastly time.[/QUOTE]
You, uh, you what now?
Oh wait, I assume you meant played like mad for the free 30 days offered to you. Well that's a relief. Personally I played for just under 6 months before I got bored; one thing I used to do was explore and run all the way from the starting point to the highest-tier zone possible, like running all the way to the Dark Portal with a level 1 character.
In terms of actually playing the game, though, my main was a Dwarven Hunter, and I got past the Level 40 mark before I quit.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41271743]Sorry but it's not Blizzard's fault when every new MMO to come out hasn't tried anything really different from the WoW formula. Blizzard was insanely successful with WoW and rightfully so.[/QUOTE]
the only game that tried something different was the original guild wars, and that as well earned a rightful place
I thought it was going to be about how all MMOs were RPGs instead of anything else.
To be honest though, I don't think being able to level quick is bad, I think it should just take a long time to get to max level so you get that feeling of moving forward, even if at a slow pace.
Reasons who vanilla WoW was twenty-times better than current WoW:
No 40% xp increase heirloom-gear.
No teleporting matchmaking that meant you could go through the whole game without actually seeing the game-world.
Dungeons in low-level weren't "press follow on heirloom-gear guy and AFK while he solo the whole thing".
No 5x out-of-combat regen until level 20.
Questing in low-levels was actually challenging.
Getting to level 60 was an achievement and the pros did it in 24 hours of game-time, now you can do 1-60 in a couple hours with minimal effort.
Honestly I can't see why Blizzard haven't removed all the zones of the game that were meant for players under level 60 and aren't just giving players level 60 characters when they make their characters... Oh wait they already did that with the death-knight. :v:
[editline]2nd July 2013[/editline]
Oh and how can I forget the extremely creative farming minigame:
[img]http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2012/07/tillerswateringcrops1.png[/img]
AKA: World of Farmville
I think the genre itself was on a decline before the release of WoW. EQ2 wasn't great, AC2 and DAoC were dying.
the entire community and social aspect has changed though no doubt. previously when you joined a group to do something you were a person, now you're just a thing that allows player X to get better gear.
seriously? i played wow when i was like 12 and didn't understand a fucking thing, then after TBC came out i played it again and i got some where, then after wrath came out i finally played it all the way through. The game used to be brutally hard and only the committed could play, now people of all ages can play. sure i wish they wouldn't have added stuff like LFR or random raiding, i miss having to trudge to dungeons
i personally find wow to be the opposite of satisfying, doing the same quest the same way to get the same item that the same eight billion subscribers have done at least four times out of boredom on alternate characters... so i can wear the same high end gear as everyone else... so i can be the same power level as anyone else... after fifteen minutes of attempting to play games like this i'm just mad at myself
it's like, the only place you could 'make a mark' in this game is the auctionhouse, and good fuckin luck with that post 2006
MMORPGs as a whole seem to be like a coin. One side is the Korean brand of MMO where it takes forever to do anything, and when you do it feels like you overcame some sort of torture(and usually not in a good way). Usually in the name of trying to force cash shop equipment and boosts on you.
The other side is World Of Warcraft. Its overly streamlined. You very rarely wonder where to go next. You don't know how to feel because yeah, you took down a big boss, but its because you followed a step by step video you saw somewhere on how to do so. All and all it doesn't seem like it would be very gratifying. Note that I myself do not and have not played World Of Warcraft, but have watched my brother who used to be a heavy player for years, and as such this is based on my observations of the game as of recently.
Then you have the rarity of the coin landing on its edge. The edge is games like the original Star Wars Galaxies and other games that tried something different. A coin doesn't land on its edge often, but when it does, its usually something special.
Yeah, WoW had a negative impact on the MMORPG genre, but it was not alone in damaging it. What I'm trying to get at is if MMORPGs are like a coin now, we need to fix things so decent games happen more often, rather than constantly falling back to copying WoW or making yet another cash shop with an annoying game attached to it.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;41273021]Yes I've heard of him, however I was talking about the MMORPG, World of Darkness, not the book series, but thanks for being an asshole.[/QUOTE]
He wasn't the one that brushed World of Darkness as "oh it's just that Twilight MMO right? lol"
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