Well it's not like you have to buy credits, it's just there in case you're too impatient/don't have the time. I'm gonna do it the good old fashioned way though, earning your cars is most of the fun.
[QUOTE=lew06;42920883]Well it's not like you have to buy credits, it's just there in case you're too impatient/don't have the time. I'm gonna do it the good old fashioned way though, earning your cars is most of the fun.[/QUOTE]
Well, if it applies to online play, there's a possibility of the game becoming pay-to-win.
Pretty much all games run this risk with micro-transactions, and it's a risk that ought not be taken because it's breaking a game just to get more money.
Okay, so?
Honestly it shouldn't be a suprise
i miss when games didn't involve real money beyond initial purchase
[QUOTE=Araknid;42920966]Okay, so?
Honestly it shouldn't be a suprise[/QUOTE]
Some people like Gran Turismo and don't want to see it utterly broken.
Forza Motorsport 4 had microtransactions as well. You could buy cars normally - which aside from a pair of outlandishly expensive Ferraris, was very easy with how much money the game showered on you - or you could buy Tokens which could be used to buy any car.
IIRC, 3 tokens was like $5-7, and 3 tokens would get you any buyable car in the game, though said car couldn't be gifted to other players like a regularly bought car.
[editline]19th November 2013[/editline]
Though from what I've heard, GT5 (and probably GT6) is a much more grindy game (at least for money) than FM4, which probably makes the microtransactions more "appealing".
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;42920976]Some people like Gran Turismo and don't want to see it utterly broken.[/QUOTE]
A couple of microtransations aren't going to utterly break the game
[QUOTE=RichyZ;42920977]i dont remember that
then again, i never gamed with floppy disks (expansion packs were also nickel and diming)[/QUOTE]
so providing more content in exchange for money is "nickel and diming"?
[QUOTE=Barbarian887;42920971]i miss when games didn't involve real money beyond initial purchase[/QUOTE]
skill2win shits on pay2win
[editline]19th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;42920977]i dont remember that
then again, i never gamed with floppy disks (expansion packs were also nickel and diming)[/QUOTE]
expansion packs are way different as they actually add shit after the game is released that was worked on after release, as an expansion, rather than day one "DLC" that already should come with the game as is
Microtransactions are here to stay. Honestly, though, I like the system most devs seem to be going with these days. "If you want, you can earn the cash in-game to buy this thing, or you can throw us a fiver and buy it now."
It's at least more benign than "Here's this exclusive item you can only get by giving us extortionate amounts of cash, and if you don't, screw you. (Looking at you, World of Warcraft!))
Besides, if you know anything at all about the Gran Turismo series, particularly the direction they've taken with it these past few games, you would understand why this is both entirely harmless and entirely beneficial. In Gran Turismo, you have a Campaign, and Arcade. Campaign's your simulator-y stuff, where you're running Prix's and Championships. That's where money is used, and the cars you buy there are typically singleplayer-only.
Then, you've got Arcade. Arcade, as it is and has been in every GT ever, is entirely open and free. You want to race F1s at Daytona? You got it. Go-Karts in Tokyo? Why not! And everything is unlocked at the start. Also, that's where most of your multiplayer takes place. They blurred the lines a little in 5, but they've said they're moving back to an open MP in 6.
And that's why none of this matters, why it doesn't "set a dangerous precedent", why it isn't at all detrimental to your gaming, and why it probably won't affect you in the least.
Oh, and before you go all "Oh, they'll make money harder to get!", I recommend you go play a V campaign and tell me you don't find yourself dirt poor ten hours in. It's a big game, money's hard to get. What's the harm if someone who plays casually wants to drive a Porsche for a lap, but doesn't have the time to grind the cash for it?
And that is my rant. Feel free to disagree, just make sure to say why. Silent criticism is worthless to me and everyone else.
[editline]20th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=J!NX;42921101]
expansion packs are way different as they actually add shit after the game is released that was worked on after release, as an expansion, rather than day one "DLC" that already should come with the game as is[/QUOTE]
There's a very good reason for Day-One DLC. It's content that was worked on after the game went feature complete.
There are strict deadlines for content lockdowns, because those tie directly into publishing schedules. Day One DLC is a way of pushing extra content to the end-user that you couldn't have worked on during the development schedule. It's a bit scummy to charge for it, sure, but you don't have to buy it if you don't want to. I've never seen a campaign in any game that has missions ripped out and placed behind a paywall. Even CoD doesn't stoop so low.
[editline]20th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;42920895]Well, if it applies to online play, there's a possibility of the game becoming pay-to-win.
Pretty much all games run this risk with micro-transactions, and it's a risk that ought not be taken because it's breaking a game just to get more money.[/QUOTE]
And to this, I say, RACE LOBBIES.
Seriously. If you don't want to pit your Fiat against a Zonda, don't play in that lobby. You can filter them, too.
[editline]20th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;42920895]Well, if it applies to online play, there's a possibility of the game becoming pay-to-win.
Pretty much all games run this risk with micro-transactions, and it's a risk that ought not be taken because it's breaking a game just to get more money.[/QUOTE]
Except GT is a racing simulator. You can't pay to win, because there is no win condition. Also, there's this little thing called "Power Points", which is a neat little way of telling you how powerful a car is. You can even use that to filter race lobbies, so you can be sure you won't be outclassed.
There is nothing, literally nothing, "pay2win" about this. Just use your own damned brain, and you'll be fine.
EDIT: Nice little box there, guy. Even when I ask for constructive criticism, you still act completely ignorant and don't reinforce your own views or position at all. Real great debating there, buddy.
Can I lease a car like real life
[editline]19th November 2013[/editline]
Fuck, my younger cousins were playing and crashed a lot. My credit card got overdrafted because of my GT6 insurance
Considering how long the Gran Turismo games can take to play though, I don't really see the problem with this.
As long as they don't use it as an excuse to make it more of a grind that is.
Well, that sort of destroys the entire point and progression of the game.
My favourite part of these "car RPGs" was starting from the bottom with an old Honda Civic and then working my way up through wins, losses and tears to something like a Dodge Viper, or Corvette and the like...
And then spending credits and time buying upgrades and tuning your vehicle...
[QUOTE=Ithon;42920858]does it come with LTI?[/QUOTE]
Only if you were on the original kickstarter.
[QUOTE=Suitcase;42921933]Well, that sort of destroys the entire point and progression of the game.
My favourite part of these "car RPGs" was starting from the bottom with an old Honda Civic and then working my way up through wins, losses and tears to something like a Dodge Viper, or Corvette and the like...
And then spending credits and time buying upgrades and tuning your vehicle...[/QUOTE]
Honestly I would only play the game while I was drunk with my friends and we would do sick drifts.
I don't think there's much wrong with this. If you want to play the classic way (fair enough) then just don't buy cars with real money.
Now that people have mentioned Forza 4 it reminds me of something that pissed me off in it. Getting thrown a free car every time you level up kind of takes the fun out of the whole 'start at the bottom and make your way up' thing. I loved how GT3 did it where it took absolutely forever to get the good cars outside of the license tests.
[QUOTE=Shark Bones;42920895]Well, if it applies to online play, there's a possibility of the game becoming pay-to-win.
Pretty much all games run this risk with micro-transactions, and it's a risk that ought not be taken because it's breaking a game just to get more money.[/QUOTE]
The best car wont win you a race if you cant drive it
I find the appeal of GT is starting out in a shit car and working your way up, people that buy credits will miss out on that experience.
Microtransactions should be exactly how Valve and Riot do it, cosmetic only, skins and alternate models. As soon as you can skip gameplay by doing it it becomes a very obvious cash grab and the "you dont have to buy it" argument is, pardon me, a fucking joke.
See it from a business perspective. You decide to include microtransactions in your game. Are you going to make it easy to unlock the best stuff in your game? No of course not because then nobody would spend money on microtransactions, you are going to make it as difficult as possible so only 400+ hours will net you the best stuff. Many games let you choose between buying or endless grinding and the grinding is often very boring and monotone. Just look at Diablo for example, its one of the games that got literally killed by its microtransactions.
It will get worse and there are no arguments to defend them, except from a business point of view.
[QUOTE=The Combine;42924889]Microtransactions should be exactly how Valve and Riot do it, cosmetic only, skins and alternate models. As soon as you can skip gameplay by doing it it becomes a very obvious cash grab and the "you dont have to buy it" argument is, pardon me, a fucking joke.
See it from a business perspective. You decide to include microtransactions in your game. Are you going to make it easy to unlock the best stuff in your game? No of course not because then nobody would spend money on microtransactions, you are going to make it as difficult as possible so only 400+ hours will net you the best stuff. Many games let you choose between buying or endless grinding and the grinding is often very boring and monotone. Just look at Diablo for example, its one of the games that got literally killed by its microtransactions.
It will get worse and there are no arguments to defend them, except from a business point of view.[/QUOTE]
Unless, of course, you consider that cars have been difficult to unlock since GT3. It's always been a grind, they can't make it much worse.
[QUOTE=woolio1;42924944]Unless, of course, you consider that cars have been difficult to unlock since GT3. It's always been a grind, they can't make it much worse.[/QUOTE]
I am sadly not familiar with the Gran Turismo series but I also wasn't specifically talking about 1 game.
Split Second for example had a microtransaction in the PSN Store that just unlocked all cars. Every single one. The point was that you would only need that transaction if:
1. You dont want to play the campaign at all - This atleast makes SOME sense, still has no reason to be there
2. For the last car - Some events(specifically the time races) were so hard that, in order to unlock the last car without spending hundreds of hours learning every single pixel of the map you would have to buy the pack for 5€/$.
In Diablo you were the beast slayer by using Mastercard and just buying the best loot. This removes ANY urge to get loot since some random player could just spend 50$ and smash in your head anyway, no matter how hard you tried to get that one weapon/armor/whatever.
I dont get whats so hard keeping microtransactions aesthetically only. If your game is good, people will buy customisation options because it just looks good and you are willing to spend more on the game since you seem to really enjoy it and get a lot of fun out of it.
Paying 10$ to skip parts of the game doesnt make any sense, it's nothing but poor game design and cash grabbing.
I fully respect other views though, as long as you can provide me with a well thought out opinion so I may learn something new.
I don't have 2000 hours to commit to getting all the really great cars. I'm not the best at driving games, so when I played GT before, there was the assumption before I even started playing that a lot of the cars in the game I would never be able to drive with because I didn't have the skill to unlock them.
I like this, because it means if I really really wanted, I could get those cars.
This doesn't break the game, it makes it more accessible, and it's pretty fucking selfish of people to say "No it has to be unlocked with skill, either you are good at the game, or you don't get to play with all the toys"
Besides, how is buying the fastest car in the game going to help someone win online if that car isn't allowed for use in a particular lobby? Besides, if someone like me buys the most expensive car, I'm still shit at the game, so it's not like I have any noticeable advantage.
if you want to skip just use a save editor
there is one for gt5 and there will be mostly like a save editor for gt6
[QUOTE=Bentham;42925226]I don't have 2000 hours to commit to getting all the really great cars. I'm not the best at driving games, so when I played GT before, there was the assumption before I even started playing that a lot of the cars in the game I would never be able to drive with because I didn't have the skill to unlock them.
I like this, because it means if I really really wanted, I could get those cars.
This doesn't break the game, it makes it more accessible, and it's pretty fucking selfish of people to say "No it has to be unlocked with skill, either you are good at the game, or you don't get to play with all the toys"
Besides, how is buying the fastest car in the game going to help someone win online if that car isn't allowed for use in a particular lobby? Besides, if someone like me buys the most expensive car, I'm still shit at the game, so it's not like I have any noticeable advantage.[/QUOTE]
Thats the ideal case. Introducing Microtransactions only for the people who dont have the skill/time to unlock the best stuff, sadly it's not solely used like that. Developers will get more and more greedy and it's already starting. They are using the "its for players who dont have lots of time" and "its entirely optional" as excuses in my opinion.
Granted, there aren't a lot of games at the moment that truly go for the greedy path but I can see it starting because no developer would forfeit his chance to make more money, it simply doesnt make sense. Microtransactions haven't been around in games for that long(except some exceptions) and right now they are starting to manifest in almost any game which I think is quite worying and to me it seems like the Devs are just hopping on the cash train.
The way I see it is that it will get insanely worse until it will become a selling point of your game that it DOESNT include microtransactions.
Just look at the Evolution of DLC. There are very few games that dont recieve DLC anymore and we have Day1 DLC even though it started off innocently with Expansion Packs that really added something to the game. Now they give you 90% of the game and to get the rest you have to pay up once more. Microtransactions are going down the same path, just at a much faster pace.
Sure.
It all stems from the way these two different games are set up. Diablo has a very linear progression. You kill things to get weapons to kill more things faster. GT, on the other hand, is very free, fluid, non-linear. You get cash to buy cars, tune-ups, paint, all sorts of things. You're not forced into a direct upgrade system, where being able to buy a significantly more powerful item takes a chunk out of your linear progression.
Another point is that the fun in GT does not primarily come from the rewards. It's a racing game, after all, and the point is to race. And spinning your tires around the track is fun.
As opposed to Diablo, where you're always grinding up to the next level. It's the carrot and stick method, you're always focused on what's ahead rather than what you're doing. Are you really having fun clicking on mobs, or do you experience more joy when you get that Enchanted Demon Sword of +10 Slaughtering?
It's also important to note that there are 1200 unique vehicles in GT6, with innumerable upgrades for each. Now, say those vehicles start at $10k and go up, like they did in 5. How long would it take you to grind, or even just play, for those? The micro transactions make the insane catalog just a little more accessible, so you can spin more tires around the track.
And that is why this system is far more benign than Diablo's system.
[editline]20th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=The Combine;42925853]Thats the ideal case. Introducing Microtransactions only for the people who dont have the skill/time to unlock the best stuff, sadly it's not solely used like that. Developers will get more and more greedy and it's already starting. They are using the "its for players who dont have lots of time" and "its entirely optional" as excuses in my opinion.
Granted, there aren't a lot of games at the moment that truly go for the greedy path but I can see it starting because no developer would forfeit his chance to make more money, it simply doesnt make sense. Microtransactions haven't been around in games for that long(except some exceptions) and right now they are starting to manifest in almost any game which I think is quite worying and to me it seems like the Devs are just hopping on the cash train.
The way I see it is that it will get insanely worse until it will become a selling point of your game that it DOESNT include microtransactions.
Just look at the Evolution of DLC. There are very few games that dont recieve DLC anymore and we have Day1 DLC even though it started off innocently with Expansion Packs that really added something to the game. Now they give you 90% of the game and to get the rest you have to pay up once more. Microtransactions are going down the same path, just at a much faster pace.[/QUOTE]
I agree entirely. Micro transactions set a bad precedent by showing up in everything, often for cash cowing out your game or making it impossible to pass a level without them. And I would be very worried if that were the case here. If Polyphony decided to let you skip races in a series, or selling boosts for a dollar, I would be deeply worried. As it is, though, being able to buy more cars doesn't directly influence the difficulty or pace of the game to a great degree. You're not going to be able to run a super car in a compact race, no matter how much money you spend. I think that balances it out quite well, in that you can buy whatever cars you want, but you'll never be able to severely uneven the track.
[QUOTE=The Combine;42925853]Thats the ideal case. Introducing Microtransactions only for the people who dont have the skill/time to unlock the best stuff, sadly it's not solely used like that. Developers will get more and more greedy and it's already starting. They are using the "its for players who dont have lots of time" and "its entirely optional" as excuses in my opinion.
Granted, there aren't a lot of games at the moment that truly go for the greedy path but I can see it starting because no developer would forfeit his chance to make more money, it simply doesnt make sense. Microtransactions haven't been around in games for that long(except some exceptions) and right now they are starting to manifest in almost any game which I think is quite worying and to me it seems like the Devs are just hopping on the cash train.
The way I see it is that it will get insanely worse until it will become a selling point of your game that it DOESNT include microtransactions.
Just look at the Evolution of DLC. There are very few games that dont recieve DLC anymore and we have Day1 DLC even though it started off innocently with Expansion Packs that really added something to the game. Now they give you 90% of the game and to get the rest you have to pay up once more. Microtransactions are going down the same path, just at a much faster pace.[/QUOTE]
That's all well and good but in this thread the focus is on GT 6, which includes this microtransaction for a game with more cars than you can shake a stick at. I will never earn all those cars on my own.
Ugh this shit is so undefendable. GT5 was already catastrophically grindy and they're not gunna do anything about it because they know that they can get money out of it. The singleplayer was an absolute joke with no "career" or progression and you can only get a good amount of credits in GT5 if you exploited shit AI in those time limited events over and over on the same one.
It's so player unfriendly you really have to question whether they actually give a shit about making a fun game, because it really isn't. The driving feels pretty good and the car and track selection are good but GT is just so ehhhhh...
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