Not really, I mean from what I've seen of the game it definitely shines the soviets in a really shitty light and ignores basically any atrocities committed by the opposing faction, it's their right to stop its sale if they think that it's bullshit
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41731159]Not really, I mean from what I've seen of the game it definitely shines the soviets in a really shitty light and [B]ignores basically any atrocities committed by the opposing faction[/B], it's their right to stop its sale if they think that it's bullshit[/QUOTE]
Except that massacre at Lublin.
This is silly.
It's based on real events, but it's still a videogame not a documentary.
On a side note, are Soviets considered heroes in Russia, or are there other things like the collapse of the Union and communism that mean the opposite?
[QUOTE=Memobot;41731254]This is silly.
It's based on real events, but it's still a videogame not a documentary.
On a side note, are Soviets considered heroes in Russia, or are there other things like the collapse of the Union and communism that mean the opposite?[/QUOTE]
I definitely can't speak for the political aspects of the struggle, but I'm sure they consider the people who fought back the nazis against all odds heroes.
[QUOTE=Memobot;41731254]This is silly.
It's based on real events, but it's still a videogame not a documentary.
On a side note, are Soviets considered heroes in Russia, or are there other things like the collapse of the Union and communism that mean the opposite?[/QUOTE]
Basicly if you shit on USSR, you are an official faget in Russia, I think.
[I]Here, in Latvia, latvians hate russians and everything connected with Russia and USSR so I don't know for sure.[/I]
Well, this is the same Russia that [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7802485.stm"]voted Stalin as being their "3rd best historical figure"[/URL]. Yeh..
I love how they are removing a game that kinda potrays Russians abit exaggerated, but not out of the norm with other ww2 games.
But when COD consistently makes them as stereotypical bad guys who want nukes and world domination, not to mention a airport slaughter scene, they only get kinda pissed off.
Russians weren't barely trained conscripts constantly being ordered to charge MG nests unarmed like the game depicts. Enemy at the gates has really been a stain on what people see the eastern front as
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;41731159]Not really, I mean from what I've seen of the game it definitely shines the soviets in a really shitty light and ignores basically any atrocities committed by the opposing faction, it's their right to stop its sale if they think that it's bullshit[/QUOTE]
Russians should just deal with it, Germans and Japanese have been dealing with that shit longer. You don't see them getting pissy about games showing how their historic nationals have commited atrocities/war crimes and other horrible shit or how US/British/Russian campaigns always show how millions of Germans and Japanese are being gutted, executed, blown up, drowned in the most horrible ways.
[QUOTE=Asmaedus;41731853]Russians weren't barely trained conscripts constantly being ordered to charge MG nests unarmed like the game depicts. Enemy at the gates has really been a stain on what people see the eastern front as[/QUOTE]
Penal Battalions would like to talk to you.
[sp]Too bad they all died.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Tudd;41731685]I love how they are removing a game that kinda potrays Russians abit exaggerated, but not out of the norm with other ww2 games.
But when COD consistently makes them as stereotypical bad guys who want nukes and world domination, not to mention a airport slaughter scene, they only get kinda pissed off.[/QUOTE]
uh because they care a shitton about WWII, and their role in it, not some fantasy american crap that never happened?
would you be more mad if someone said you were going to kill someone in the future, as opposed to saying you killed someone in cold blood rather than self defense in the past?
This guy explains pretty well why russians hate CoH2
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m4SCUaBHS8[/media]
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;41732008]uh because they care a shitton about WWII, and their role in it, not some fantasy american crap that never happened?
would you be more mad if someone said you were going to kill someone in the future, as opposed to saying you killed someone in cold blood rather than self defense in the past?[/QUOTE]
Well considering people who play CoH probably have some historical knowledge and can separate exaggeration from fact, as opposed to the average CoD player whose knowledge of history/modern times might just be abit simpler, then yah I would say the latter is worse.
Being proud is fine, but its not like all this shit is coming out of nowhere. Sure its exaggerated, but it is a video game (Although Relic obviously barely tried for realism). Every other country in WW2 gets criticized for their failings and has moved on, but Japan and Russian continually sweep stuff under the rug, and wanna play this make believe that they had a standard army with minimal errors.
Fine for them to ban a game, but they really should just move on.
[QUOTE=Tudd;41732448]Well considering people who play CoH probably have some historical knowledge and can separate exaggeration from fact, as opposed to the average CoD player whose knowledge of history/modern times might just be abit simpler, then yah I would say the latter is worse.
Being proud is fine, but its not like all this shit is coming out of nowhere. Sure its exaggerated, but it is a video game (Although Relic obviously barely tried for realism). Every other country in WW2 gets criticized for their failings and has moved on, but Japan and Russian continually sweep stuff under the rug, and wanna play this make believe that they had a standard army with minimal errors.
Fine for them to ban a game, but they really should just move on.[/QUOTE]
are you kidding me, moved on?
most westerners don't even know their country committed any atrocities at all
the west has had an enormously shoddy record of keeping up with war crimes and atrocities done in war
most brits will deny that the firebombing of dresden was an atrocity
most americans (even the government itself) deny that using agent orange in vietnam was an atrocity
most americans will deny that stuff like the canicatti and the dachau massacre were war crimes or even know about it
now imagine a game where you played an american who massacred surrendered german soldiers
oh oh how about you play an american paratrooper on D-Day, and you land, win the battles, and then on several occasions the player has to shoot dead groups of german POW's because they were ordered not to take prisoners
imagine the entire game was just constantly punctuated with events like this, and now you understand why the russians are complaining
Given the circumstances at how the Russians were portrayed in the game I am not surprised at all that this game is not being sold in Russia. I don't care that this is a game, if they're going to make a game about a real war they should at least get some of the facts right.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;41732878]are you kidding me, moved on?
most westerners don't even know their country committed any atrocities at all
the west has had an enormously shoddy record of keeping up with war crimes and atrocities done in war
most brits will deny that the firebombing of dresden was an atrocity
most americans (even the government itself) deny that using agent orange in vietnam was an atrocity
most americans will deny that stuff like the canicatti and the dachau massacre were war crimes or even know about it
now imagine a game where you played an american who massacred surrendered german soldiers
oh oh how about you play an american paratrooper on D-Day, and you land, win the battles, and then on several occasions the player has to shoot dead groups of german POW's because they were ordered not to take prisoners
imagine the entire game was just constantly punctuated with events like this, and now you understand why the russians are complaining[/QUOTE]
Obviously you missed my "Every other country in WW2 gets criticized for its failings." I never once said US/UK were in the free.
By move on I mean stop associating yourself with the past and just figure out writers dramatize shit to make it interesting.
Germans constantly get berated for their past, but people know they aren't Nazis. Russians are also no longer Soviet, but quite a few still tie themselves to that era/system.
Again they can ban the game, but at the end of the day it's a fucking game. If there is a actual idiot who thinks the shit in CoH2 is all true, there is something more wrong with that person then the game.
[QUOTE=Tudd;41733045]Obviously you missed my "Every other country in WW2 gets criticized for its failings." I never once said US/UK were in the free.
By move on I mean stop associating yourself with the past and just figure out writers dramatize shit to make it interesting.
Germans constantly get berated for their past, but people know they aren't Nazis. Russians are also no longer Soviet, but quite a few still tie themselves to that era/system.
Again they can ban the game, but at the end of the day it's a fucking game. If there is a actual idiot who thinks the shit in CoH2 is all true, there is something more wrong with that person then the game.[/QUOTE]
Obviously you missed the part where you saying that western countries have 'moved on' is utterly ridiculous
we're just as defensive as the russians, if a game had americans commit the atrocities that they did as overblown as the russians, then there would be uproar as well.
you also have to remember that WW2 is a far more sensitive war for the russians than it is for the west.
seems to me the problem is that the developers are putting out false information but outright saying it's facts
World at War had a more accurate depiction of the eastern front :v:
[QUOTE=Tudd;41732448]
Being proud is fine, but its not like all this shit is coming out of nowhere. Sure its exaggerated, but it is a video game (Although Relic obviously barely tried for realism). Every other country in WW2 gets criticized for their failings and has moved on, but Japan and Russian continually sweep stuff under the rug, and wanna play this make believe that they had a standard army with minimal errors.
Fine for them to ban a game, but they really should just move on.[/QUOTE]
minimal errors? most russians I know acknowledge that russian tactics were pretty much shit until stalin backed out of command.
they also recognize that the gulag affected everyone.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;41733091]Obviously you missed the part where you saying that western countries have 'moved on' is utterly ridiculous
we're just as defensive as the russians, if a game had americans commit the atrocities that they did as overblown as the russians, then there would be uproar as well.
you also have to remember that WW2 is a far more sensitive war for the russians than it is for the west.[/QUOTE]
Were still just talking about a game. Go ahead and release a game that focuses on American atrocities in WW2 in a overblown manner, hell I would get pissed at such misinformation, but the game wouldn't get banned over here and people would just choose not to buy it.
Did these guys raise a stink when they were given just a clip of ammo, no gun, and marched to storm Stalingrad in CoD?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxMix7QB81g[/media]
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;41733337]minimal errors? most russians I know acknowledge that russian tactics were pretty much shit until stalin backed out of command.
they also recognize that the gulag affected everyone.[/QUOTE]
Mostly i'm just basing what I felt from that video. His points are pretty much valid, but he downplays alot of stuff like Penal Battalions.
He basically makes it sound like it was just a time out corner for misbehaved soldiers, and after 3 months they be totally fine.
[QUOTE=smfE;41732025]This guy explains pretty well why russians hate CoH2
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m4SCUaBHS8[/media][/QUOTE]
i find it hilarious that the devs (to be fair maybe they're just mods or something i don't know but either way it reflects on the company) throw petty insults at the guy
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;41733348]Did these guys raise a stink when they were given just a clip of ammo, no gun, and marched to storm Stalingrad in CoD?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxMix7QB81g[/media][/QUOTE]
But CoD never claimed to be 100% accurate.
[editline]6th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=JerryK;41733393]i find it hilarious that the devs (to be fair maybe they're just mods or something i don't know but either way it reflects on the company) throw petty insults at the guy[/QUOTE]
I wish the old CoH team made CoH2.
[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;41733409]But CoD never claimed to be 100% accurate.[/QUOTE]
Not implicitly, but before CoD was changed horrifically to today's CoD, it did try to be very historically accurate in alot of areas.
It's just that CoD knew how to make something dramatic tastefully back then. CoH 2 is like reading Bioware's take on Soviets in WW2. Either way it's a strategy game with a shitty story-driven campaign, what's new about that?
Honestly this whole debate is never going to be conclusive, because history has recorded such events happening, but everybody is arguing on both sides to what extent. Doesn't help the Soviet Union didn't exactly keep the best records.
[QUOTE=Tudd;41733469]Not implicitly, but before CoD was changed horrifically to today's CoD, it did try to be very historically accurate in alot of areas.
[/QUOTE]
not really, and nowhere to the same degree as CoH2.
[QUOTE=smfE;41732025]This guy explains pretty well why russians hate CoH2
[/QUOTE]
Except that this guy entirely glosses over major facts and comes off as widely uninformed and disgruntled. Someone, in the FP thread for the video, goes in much more depth as to this.
Order 227 was a real thing. Penal battalions were a real thing. And there are many other instances of Russian creating defensive lines (of tanks, even) to shoot anyone that tried to retreat. Yes, Company of Heroes does have some poor stereotyping and historical inaccuracies - but to write them off as Nazis and offending glorious Russia is just petty.
Russia confuses me as a culture for this reason. If the game glorifies Stalin or the Soviet people in World War II, they love it. If it paints it in a realistic light, they treat it the same way was blatantly stereotypical or negative. World of Tanks has drama over the fact the EU branch removed the tank inscriptions relating to Stalin, but their Russian Headquarters reverted them back - saying that they will embrace their history. Which is funny because I'm sure Polish players will be thrilled; and that their stance on anything Nazi is to omit or ban it. (KGB? That's fine. SS? You're banned.)
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