France gives evidence of Chemical weapons use in Syrian war - Polidicks

[img]http://s1.lemde.fr/image/2013/05/24/534x267/3417111_3_2f96_a-djobar-les-attaques-au-gaz-ont-commence_c69ec5d4ec3bd55c6b188eed04ac27c9.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2013/06/04/laurent-fabius-confirme-l-utilisation-de-gaz-sarin-en-syrie_3424140_3218.html[/url] [quote]Foreign policy minister Laurent Fabius has certified in a press release this 4 June that, according to French analysis, Sarin gas has been used "with certitude and in localized spots" in Syria.[/quote] Proof includes footage of rebels using gas masks, videos of people suffering from heavy pulmonary infections and positive tests of hair, blood and other samples. It's still unclear who used these chemicals and whether the rebels are using them as well or not. In case you don't know Sarin is a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin]potent nerve agent[/url] used in chemical warfare.

Apparently the UN is suspecting the Government, but can't conclusively say. "There are "reasonable grounds" to believe that chemical weapons were used in attacks by government forces in Syria in recent months, the UN says. Both sides say their forces have been the victims of chemical weapons attacks The report said there were "reasonable grounds to believe that limited quantities of toxic chemicals were used" during attacks on Khan al-Assal, Aleppo, 19 March; al-Otaybeh, Damascus, 19 March; Sheikh Maqsoud neighbourhood, Aleppo, 13 April; and Saraqeb, Idlib province, 29 April. But it adds that it "has not been possible, on the evidence available, to determine the precise chemical agents used, their delivery systems or the perpetrator And it was unable to rule out their use by opposition forces. It calls on Damascus to allow a team of UN chemical weapons experts into the country - a request Damascus has so far denied." [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22765692[/url]

Called it. Can we just get involved now? As much as I hate to have to get involved with another war, I'd willingly ship to Syria to help these people.

Seeing how many of the rebels are Islamist extremists, I'd rather not help them. I'd say we leave them alone and have them sort their own shit out before we throw money at them just because we are "Nice" and get nothing in return except potential terrorists

[QUOTE=draugur;40901102]Called it. Can we just get involved now? As much as I hate to have to get involved with another war, I'd willingly ship to Syria to help these people.[/QUOTE] Do it Libya style with minimal troops on the ground, shit ton of aircraft.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;40901130]Seeing how many of the rebels are Islamist extremists, I'd rather not help them. I'd say we leave them alone and have them sort their own shit out before we throw money at them just because we are "Nice" and get nothing in return except potential terrorists[/QUOTE] It is this attitude which created this mess in the first place. Inaction worked sooo well in Bosnia remember.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40901148]It is this attitude which created this mess in the first place. Inaction worked sooo well in Bosnia remember.[/QUOTE] The rebels probably would have been a lot less powerful and the war over sooner had Saudi Arabia and Qatar not funded or armed the rebels. Inaction from the start would have been better for the country overall.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;40901148]It is this attitude which created this mess in the first place. Inaction worked sooo well in Bosnia remember.[/QUOTE] I'm waiting for someone to show some hard data that "most of the rebels are Islamic extremists"

[QUOTE=download;40901190]I'm waiting for someone to show some hard data that "most of the rebels are Islamic extremists"[/QUOTE] this isn't true at all, everyone forgets the kurds, who just want their own land and some autonomy and they are some of most well armed rebels, if anything the islamists althrough numerous are the minority(a rather big minority, but still one).

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;40901213]this isn't true at all, everyone forgets the kurds, who just want their own land and some autonomy and they are some of most well armed rebels, if anything the islamists althrough numerous are the minority(a rather big minority, but still one).[/QUOTE] The Kurds don't like any of the factions in the civil war. They clash with FSA and SAA all the time.

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;40901213]this isn't true at all, everyone forgets the kurds, who just want their own land and some autonomy and they are some of most well armed rebels, if anything the islamists althrough numerous are the minority(a rather big minority, but still one).[/QUOTE] Weren't the Kurd's also subjected to a massive chemical attack by Saddam Hussein's regime?

Why can't we just do nothing? Getting involved on either side will inevitably fuck us over in due time.

[QUOTE=laserguided;40901258]The Kurds don't like any of the factions in the civil war. They clash with FSA and SAA all the time.[/QUOTE] i know that, but the point is, they're rebels too, to say most of the rebels are islamist is ignoring the facts [QUOTE=Lyonidis;40901272]Weren't the Kurd's also subjected to a massive chemical attack by Saddam Hussein's regime?[/QUOTE] they were. [QUOTE=The mouse;40901286]Why can't we just do nothing? Getting involved on either side will inevitably fuck us over in due time.[/QUOTE] to be fair, if assad is willing to go using chemical weapons like that, and no one does anything it will seriously undermine the idea that "chemical/biological/nuclear weapons" are a big no, do you want other nations getting the idea that its ok to use it? thing is, assad probably doesn't even need it, pretty obvious he would win if he just didn't use them.

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;40901319]i know that, but the point is, they're rebels too, to say most of the rebels are islamist is ignoring the facts [/QUOTE] Ignoring what facts?

Should've done something two years ago, when the good guys were still good and the war hadn't gone sour.

[QUOTE=laserguided;40901449]Ignoring what facts?[/QUOTE] the kurds basically.

[QUOTE=draugur;40901102]Called it. Can we just get involved now? As much as I hate to have to get involved with another war, I'd willingly ship to Syria to help these people.[/QUOTE] I'd rather not help a bunch of crazy islamists to gain power over a crazy dictator. This sort of rebellion is a blessing for extremists. They are usually not all that numerous during the rebellion itself but they almost systematically seize power afterward. Not to mention pretty much all of the original rebels are either dead or gone and the ones that remain aren't exactly the finest of the bunch.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;40901584]I'd rather not help a bunch of crazy islamists to gain power over a crazy dictator.[/QUOTE] this is going to end up being a 3 way war the way its going(with the kurds being a 4th side, that is mostly neutral and only interessed in autonomy).

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;40901584]I'd rather not help a bunch of crazy islamists to gain power over a crazy dictator.[/QUOTE] When we fail to intervene, we gave window for powerful extremist groups to get their hands in the pie, it's still not completely too late to help them, it would be better to help them now than leave them alone, because inaction is what the extremist groups want, to show that we don't give a fuck about their people, it breeds hatred and malice.

By the way getting involved in this isn't going to help all that much. Assad isn't going to give up on anything. It worked with Libya because we did it much earlier and we were lucky that Gadhafi got caught on his way out. I doubt we'll have that much good factors for assad.

[QUOTE=draugur;40901627]When we fail to intervene, we gave window for powerful extremist groups to get their hands in the pie, it's still not completely too late to help them, it would be better to help them now than leave them alone, because inaction is what the extremist groups want, to show that we don't give a fuck about their people, it breeds hatred and malice.[/QUOTE] We've intervened in Libya but there are still many Islamist milicias in the country trying to impose their law. Military intervention or not they are going to try and take over, and they are very likely to succeed anyway (Egypt is a good example of that). I don't know about other countries but when it comes to France it would be a pretty terrible idea to get into this conflict. [editline]4th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=The golden;40901651]Our stance that chemical weapons = warcrimes means nothing if we don't enforce it.[/QUOTE] But we don't know if Rebels have used them as well. The UN and the French ministry are both not jumping to conclusions because it's still unclear who is using these (chances are it's both). If we are so willing to enforce the no-tolerance policy on chemical weapons we may have to also fight the rebels. Shit has gone way too sour for any sort of military implication from other countries to go well at all. [editline]4th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Wizards Court;40901213]this isn't true at all, everyone forgets the kurds, who just want their own land and some autonomy and they are some of most well armed rebels, if anything the islamists althrough numerous are the minority(a rather big minority, but still one).[/QUOTE] The kurds don't control all that much land for now. Just a few spots in the North. In the event of a successful rebellion the Islamists are very likely going to get elected. If they don't, they will instigate milicias to emulate power for lack of a democratic one.

Oh christ, that sucks. I personally consider chemical/biological weapons to be an unfair tactic. At least give your enemies the human decency of a quick death they deserve.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;40901670] The kurds don't control all that much land for now. Just a few spots in the North. In the event of a successful rebellion the Islamists are very likely going to get elected. If they don't, they will instigate milicias to emulate power for lack of a democratic one.[/QUOTE] the kurds only control some spots in the north, cause its the only area they consider their land, they're one of the most heavily armed rebels, but they're not interessed in taking over syria or anything, just autonomy. [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Kurdish-inhabited_area_by_CIA_%281992%29.jpg[/IMG] see this map for you to have an idea.

Sarin gas is fucking horrible. What it does is that you get chest pains, followed by losing control of all bodily function , then you collapse and suffocate.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;40901130]Seeing how many of the rebels are Islamist extremists, I'd rather not help them. I'd say we leave them alone and have them sort their own shit out before we throw money at them just because we are "Nice" and get nothing in return except potential terrorists[/QUOTE] Where did you get information that states most of the rebel are extremists? I think you're just pulling non-existent facts out of your ass. Last time i checked, when the war first started, it was mostly defecting soldiers and civilians fighting against Assad. Just because there are some confirmed extremist groups doesn't mean most of them are. "Potential terrorists?" Are you for fucking real? "I'd rather let soldiers who didnt want to kill civilians and civilians who fought against their tyrannical government be slaughtered if they lose because no one helped them." [editline]4th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Samg381;40901790]Oh christ, that sucks. I personally consider chemical/biological weapons to be an unfair tactic. At least give your enemies the human decency of a quick death they deserve.[/QUOTE] Bullets, bombs, mines, missiles, ect, don't always kill you, people get, you know, limbs blown off, shattered bodies, burnt skin, ect. I hate it when people nitpick what weapons are used in war, no matter what it's still fucking horrible. Oh and what happened to that line they crossed? Wasn't supposed to happen? Guess not.

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;40904101]Where did you get information that states most of the rebel are extremists? I think you're just pulling non-existent facts out of your ass. Last time i checked, when the war first started, it was mostly defecting soldiers and civilians fighting against Assad. Just because there are some confirmed extremist groups doesn't mean most of them are. "Potential terrorists?" Are you for fucking real? "I'd rather let soldiers who didnt want to kill civilians and civilians who fought against their tyrannical government be slaughtered if they lose because no one helped them." [editline]4th June 2013[/editline] Bullets, bombs, mines, missiles, ect, don't always kill you, people get, you know, limbs blown off, shattered bodies, burnt skin, ect. I hate it when people nitpick what weapons are used in war, no matter what it's still fucking horrible. Oh and what happened to that line they crossed? Wasn't supposed to happen? Guess not.[/QUOTE] Ask for proof then provide no proof to back up own statements.

[QUOTE=draugur;40901102]Called it. Can we just get involved now? As much as I hate to have to get involved with another war, I'd willingly ship to Syria to help these people.[/QUOTE] Do we really want western countries intervening and using chemical weapons too? Western intervention might make the situation more violent and supporting Islamic rebels has never been a good idea.

Are those the media wardrums i'm hearing off in the distance? It is scary when they all start beating at the same time.. and it is wierd when they defend the turkish dictator Erdogan. Nothing wrong here folks, please move along! just some ordinary mindcontr- news.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;40904403]they put hormones in kids juice boxes to turn straight men gay[/QUOTE] Alex sure did a good job doin his little tricks on you. Snap back to reality, because shit is about to hit the fan. History is about to repeat itself.

[QUOTE=draugur;40901102]Called it. Can we just get involved now? As much as I hate to have to get involved with another war, I'd willingly ship to Syria to help these people.[/QUOTE] The only way to help the people would be to go over and enter a 3-way-war against both the Government and the Rebels.