Non-US citizens may be allowed to vote in NYC elections. - Polidicks

i got this from a terrible source, if you want a laugh: [URL]http://www.westernjournalism.com/nyc-considering-allowing-foreign-nationals-to-vote-in-elections/[/URL] anyways, this is the actual bill: [URL]http://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=803591&GUID=3652CB45-9436-4D4F-ADE3-E17CE8A8AF28&Options=&Search=[/URL] [quote][U]1. A "municipal voter" shall mean a person who is not a United States citizen, but is lawfully present in the United States on the date of the election in which he or she is voting, and has been a resident of New York City, as defined herein, for six months or longer by the date of such election, and who meets all qualifications for registering to vote under the New York state election law, except for possessing United States citizenship, and has registered to vote with the New York city board of elections under this chapter.[/quote] [/U] i say about time. this should be done with national elections as well.

I just want to be clear on something: I'm rating disagree for Yawmwen's comment (you don't really understand the idea of citizenship do you?), not so much the bill itself. I can understand allowing lawful residents to vote in local elections (this bill only pertains to elections within the New York City government, not the New York State, or United States Federal governments).

[quote]i say about time. this should be done with national elections as well.[/QUOTE] damn that would mean that as an island puerto rican I would have less voting rights than non american citizens when regarding national elections :v:.

The law sounds pretty reasonable tbh.

why shouldnt people who contribute to society be able to decide how that society will work?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40658722]i got this from a terrible source, if you want a laugh: [URL]http://www.westernjournalism.com/nyc-considering-allowing-foreign-nationals-to-vote-in-elections/[/URL] anyways, this is the actual bill: [URL]http://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=803591&GUID=3652CB45-9436-4D4F-ADE3-E17CE8A8AF28&Options=&Search=[/URL] [/U] i say about time. this should be done with national elections as well.[/QUOTE] oh ok so what the fuck will "citizen" mean then

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;40658848]I just want to be clear on something: I'm rating disagree for Yawmwen's comment (you don't really understand the idea of citizenship do you?), not so much the bill itself. I can understand allowing lawful residents to vote in local elections (this bill only pertains to elections within the New York City government, not the New York State, or United States Federal governments).[/QUOTE] so if you don't have the fortune of being born on the right plot of land, you should have no say in society until you pass some arbitrary test? do human beings have the right to make decisions regarding their society or are they slaves to the "citizens"?

I have no problem with this for local (and state if they wish) elections. Note it says lawful residents (who are not yet citizens)

[QUOTE=thisispain;40658950]why shouldnt people who contribute to society be able to decide how that society will work?[/QUOTE] dey terk our jerbs!!!!

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;40658951]oh ok so what the fuck will "citizen" mean then[/QUOTE] it shouldn't really mean anything. if you live in society and are affected by the decisions of society you should be entitled to make decisions regarding society.

[QUOTE=thisispain;40658950]why shouldnt people who contribute to society be able to decide how that society will work?[/QUOTE] Because we still operate some broken form of Roman citizenship.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9eL-4F8lFc[/media] There's a very good reason why we have some valence of regulations regarding voting requirements..

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;40658951]oh ok so what the fuck will "citizen" mean then[/QUOTE] Someone who came out of the right vagina at the right time/passed a simple test and told a flag they love it

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40659017]it shouldn't really mean anything. if you live in society and are affected by the decisions of society you should be entitled to make decisions regarding society.[/QUOTE]So should 10 year olds be able to vote as well?

[QUOTE=Jad Hinto;40659039]So should 10 year olds be able to vote as well?[/QUOTE] good question. i would say it depends on what the vote is on.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40659017]it shouldn't really mean anything. if you live in society and are affected by the decisions of society you should be entitled to make decisions regarding society.[/QUOTE] And what citizenship proves is that you [b]are and willing[/b] to live in that society. That has been established since Greek times.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40659076]good question. i would say it depends on what the vote is on.[/QUOTE]What about national elections?

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40659081]And what citizenship proves is that you [b]are and willing[/b] to live in that society. That has been established since Greek times.[/QUOTE] the greeks also had a tradition of slavery, torture, and some states even had loose standards on pedophilia. are those traditions we should also take into the modern era? maybe citizenship should be re-thought.

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40659081]And what citizenship proves is that you [b]are[/b] living in that society. That has been established since Roman times.[/QUOTE] yeah ummm you should kind of look up on roman times dude citizenship in rome was a privilege that could be taken away and it was only really given to roman men who were deemed to be worthy of it if your cues on citizenship come from Rome you are srsly behind on political developments throughout history. the us's cues on citizenship come from england, not rome.

[QUOTE=Jad Hinto;40659121]What about national elections?[/QUOTE] in an ideal situation, a person would be allowed to vote when they are 1) affected by a decision and 2) are able to understand the way that voting and decision-making affects them. so again, it really depends. i wouldn't say no 10 year old should be allowed to vote, but i also wouldn't say they would be allowed to vote by default.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40659160]in an ideal situation, a person would be allowed to vote when they are 1) affected by a decision and 2) are able to understand the way that voting and decision-making affects them. so again, it really depends. i wouldn't say no 10 year old should be allowed to vote, but i also wouldn't say they would be allowed to vote by default.[/QUOTE]I'd say maybe some sort of competency test until they're 18 (I.e. are they aware of the issues at hand in a general look, do they know what each person stands for, e.t.c.) but it sounds awfully dystopinish.

[QUOTE=thisispain;40659130]yeah ummm you should kind of look up on roman times dude citizenship in rome was a privilege that could be taken away and it was only really given to roman men who were deemed to be worthy of it if your cues on citizenship come from Rome you are srsly behind on political developments throughout history. the us's cues on citizenship come from england, not rome.[/QUOTE] Rome extended their privileges of citizenship to subjects beyond Rome. You get people like Ptolomey and Virgil becoming citizens. Point is, they lived in Roman borders and have citizenship to attend political affairs even if it existed outside the capital, you don't just as a person fresh off the boat to come register and vote for your boss. [QUOTE=yawmwen;40659128]the greeks also had a tradition of slavery, torture, and some states even had loose standards on pedophilia. are those traditions we should also take into the modern era? maybe citizenship should be re-thought.[/QUOTE] And Greece was also the first civilization that created democracy and has contributed to the modern world, everything from military to the alphabet. Don't suggest other flak that I do not bring up. Greece invented democracy. People born in their respective cities may participate in the city's political affairs and nowhere else. Today people that live in a country may participate in their political affairs once they've lived in the country long enough.

The bill refers to those who are legally in the US, but who are not citizens. As long as they have papers proving residency in the US, there really shouldnt be a problem.

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40659180]Rome extended their privileges of citizenship to subjects beyond Rome. You get people like Ptolomey and Virgil becoming citizens. Point is, they lived in Roman borders and have citizenship to attend political affairs even if it existed outside the capital, you don't just as a person fresh off the boat to come register and vote for your boss.[/QUOTE] ok what's the relevancy tho why is a person who's "fresh off the boat" not entitled to the same rights as someone else who lives in the same place

[QUOTE=Jad Hinto;40659178]I'd say maybe some sort of competency test until they're 18 (I.e. are they aware of the issues at hand in a general look, do they know what each person stands for, e.t.c.) but it sounds awfully dystopinish.[/QUOTE] i think individual communities should make the decision regarding some form of non-arbitrary "age of majority" system. maybe when you get your first job somewhere, or when you have gone through a certain level of education and understand the ideas of decision-making. idk it isn't really a decision i would want to make personally.

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40659180]Rome extended their privileges of citizenship to subjects beyond Rome. You get people like Ptolomey and Virgil becoming citizens. Point is, they lived in Roman borders and have citizenship to attend political affairs even if it existed outside the capital, you don't just as a person fresh off the boat to come register and vote for your boss.[/QUOTE] So only people with power political or familial connections should be citizens? I understand completely now. Also, we should nail people's wrists and ankles into planks when they wrong us.

if you pay taxes and love america, why not

[QUOTE=thisispain;40659214]ok what's the relevancy tho why is a person who's "fresh off the boat" not entitled to the same rights as someone else who lives in the same place[/QUOTE] How would you know if the person is knowledgeable in the current political affairs? I'm just concerned to see hawkers coerce immigrants into voting and 'white noise' that will be added into elections. Legal aliens may vote by all means so long as they show that they have been living there and have been educated properly so in knowing who their candidate is. Romans did the same to their subjects and allowed people that have been in their borders such as Spaniards and Egyptians to become citizens.

[QUOTE=lolwutdude;40659229]if you pay taxes and love america, why not[/QUOTE] lol "if you pay taxes and love america" that means that, like half of americans over 18 shouldn't be able to vote. [editline]16th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40659240]How would you know if the person is knowledgeable in the current political affairs? I'm just concerned to see hawkers coerce immigrants into voting and 'white noise' that will be added into elections. Legal aliens may vote by all mean so long as they show that they have been living there and have been educated properly so in knowing who their candidate is.[/QUOTE] so people born here have the privilege of being able to vote without being educated properly or knowing who their candidate is, but aliens shouldn't?

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40659180]Rome extended their privileges of citizenship to subjects beyond Rome. You get people like Ptolomey and Virgil becoming citizens. Point is, they lived in Roman borders and have citizenship to attend political affairs even if it existed outside the capital, you don't just as a person fresh off the boat to come register and vote for your boss. [/QUOTE] six months minimum is not fresh off the boat, neither will immigrants by millions come to vote for sharia law loving muslim anti-american man, most likely that they'll be too focused on their job rather vote which is bloody tedious as it is