The Doctor Who Spoilers and Speculation Thread V3 - "Oh, brilliant." - Film, Television and Music

good ep, good season, good setup for nyd ep, terrible news about 2020 tho

Apparently Bradley Walsh is staying. With his schedule being as it is... it makes me wonder.

god I am actually unreasonably hyped for the new year's special after rewatching the trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjiTgX6TR5U

Well, first off, I enjoyed the story, I really did, not the best of the series but not the worst by any stretch. But... 2020... If the rumors are true and Chibnall wants to leave after his second series and as I said previously, with the show having been renewed in 2015 till 2020 I am worried that that it could be the final series of the modern run...

I could be wrong but personally I'm not worried about the show ending after S11. The ratings have been pretty great this year and the optics of the BBC ending Doctor Who right after the first female Doctor would be so terrible I sincerely doubt there's any way they do that. I do worry about who would replace Chibnall were he to leave though. For now though the break is almost certainly because the show simply takes so much energy to create. RTD and Moffat were powerhouses going for all those years they did (which is why we got the year of specials and the year inbetween S9 and S10).

Just caught up on “It Takes You Away”, easily one of my favorite NuWho episodes. Looking forward to tonight’s finale!

Obvious villain is obvious. One reason for hiding it. Dalek redesign ahoy. Good luck, Chibnall. You'll need it.

god I hope they look good, I don't even know how you'd improve the current bronze one in my mind really but god speed chib

"Doctor Who: Resolution" i like it

Those breaks are getting ridiculous...

Sneak preview of the NYD special: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rwUdL9qXjk

I do like that special poster. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dt_-lp4WsAMvnUk.jpg:large

Finale was closer to how I feel the rest of the series should have been. Like, it was exciting to get Tim Shaw back and get a conclusion to the story arc but it was also like where the christ has this bastard been for 8 episodes? We had the Stenza mention in episode 2 and that was basically the end of it until now? Felt more like just a regular returning enemy than a season finale arc villain

I really enjoyed it. Overall I’m super happy with this season, and liked that everything was fairly standalone and compact. looking forward to the new year’s special.

Let's look at the positives for the gap year. This gives Chibnall a chance to listen the complaints about the lackluster villains from this Season. We might even get a few extra episodes.

This spider episode is all kinds of fucking NOPE. I'm sort of enthralled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8yUWftcMco Official theme leaked on Spotify (down now) - looks like we might be getting the S11 soundtrack before S10. Her theme is fine but god what I'd give for a clean version of the "I am the Doctor" in Twice Upon a Time or "The Shepard's Boy" in The Doctor Falls.

god, rewatching clips from the moffat era does make me a little sad. even just looking at twice upon a time i feel we'll never get a moment i love as much as this one (and this is far from even my favourite moment): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixTcCJ-Ti5g

As someone who started out loving the fresh new approach and Jodie, I think s11 is probably the most disappointing series of the show (most disappointing isn't the same as worst). There are some proper good ideas in s11 but I really don't like the tone/pacing of it all. It's just so fucking boring. Ranskoor was easily the shittest finale we've had, and I am counting Weddings in that. It was just shit. I thought the entire Stenza race were gonna be the villain and unveiled as a proper threat that would follow Jodie throughout her entire tenure, but Tim Shaw was the lamest of lame ducks. He wasn't a threat. A creature who has spent 3000 years planning revenge on the Doctor after being beaten, that's a fucking good and cool, and even original, concept. I was expecting the distress calls to be a trap set by Shaw to lure her in, but they weren't. So, what, was Tim just waiting for her to show up? How does that make any sense? And if he wanted revenge, why wasn't the Earth the first planet stolen? Okay, he was waiting for the Doctor to show up to witness it, but what if she just..didn't? Or what if an earlier regeneration had responded to the distress calls? He'd have been fucked. I think the finale is the perfect example of everything wrong with s11: All flash, no fire. It's style over substance, and I don't think it's intentional. I know I have a reputation for being a negative Norman but I was genuinely optimistic for this series. I genuinely thought it was going to be amazing and renew the show. Facebook posts have gone from a 80/20 split in favour of defending Jodie and s11 to the complete opposite. In fact, the overwhelming feeling I get is that people like Jodie (or at least think she has potential) but HATE the way Chibnall is writing the show/characterising her. Like, she is all over the place as a character. At first he characterises her as an ultra-pacificist, and that would have been fine if he had stuck to it instead of just making his inconsistency in writing the Doctor a fucking one line joke because he couldn't be arsed to go back and change either episode. "You were new!" what about literally every other time this series she has expressed extreme distaste in weapons. Oh, what about her fangirling over the general from Tsuranga? What? How does that make ANY sense? s12 has been pushed back partially because of the reaction to Chibnall's writing, I think. The BBC want a bit of a break between s11 (which really hasn't been popular amongst the general audiences) the ratings drop is DAMNING. Only a 300k overnight increase for a FINALE is really really awful, and I say an overnight increase, that's a loss of 1.79 viewers since episode 2 (I won't count episode 1 because the ratings were always gonna be a lot higher for that). I'm looking forward to Resolution (of the Daleks), but only because of the Dalek(s). I imagine it'll be the same sort of episode we've had 10 times over. I really really WANT to like ChibnallWho, but I don't think I can. I hope he takes all of the criticism on board and changes the formula for s12, but somehow I doubt it.

I think the word I'd use is weight. Everything this series kind of lacks weight. The closest I felt we got to weight was when the Doctor was doing her speech in ep 9 ("I have loved more and I have lost more" got to me in particular) but even that wasn't as punchy as things before it. Say what you will about Moffat/RTD but their big bombastic moments always felt like they at least meant so much. You can dislike The Doctor Falls as much as you want but that scene where 12 is blowing up the Cyberman has so much feeling wrapped up in it, at least to me. Same with an episode like The End of Time - the plot is sometimes disliked but when 10 says "I don't want to go" you feel something. I imagine 13 regenerating right now and I can't imagine her having a properly emotional send off. It's sad.

The rating drop is 'damming'? Compare the viewing figures of the opening and closing episodes of previous series from the start of modern Doctor Who until now the 1.79 million drop isn't that steep. Series 1 had a drop from first episode to last of 3.9, Series 2 a drop of 0.4, Series 3 a drop of 0.1, series 4 gained 1.53, but from that point on they are back to dropping again, series 5, a drop of 3.39, series 6 a drop of 1.93, series 7 a drop of 3.32, series 8 a drop of 1.83, series 9 a drop of 2.11 and series 10 a drop of 2.53. You can pick and choose which episode you want as your first one, but the notion that, compared to the drops in previous series, I don't mean to sound rude to you but, it is just plain silly to act as though the drop is something new when aside from the Tennent run there has always been a drop. The reason for the brake between series? Well, either the rumors are true and Chibnall is so pissed off he has told them he will only do one more and now the beeb are going to be searching for a new show runner over the next year as they seemingly did during the break between 9 and 10. Or the rumors about them starting filming the next series later due to an admin error or whatever it is has meant that the only way they'd get a series in 2019 would be to split series 12 in half and show one half in late 2019 and the second half in early 2020. And at that point, shit, you may as well just do it early 2020 which seems to be what they are doing. Yeah, I was alarmed when I heard there wouldn't be a series in 2019 and whilst I am still not totally happy about it and whilst this series had its problems I think the show as a whole is still in a far healthier position now than had it otherwise had been.

I disagree whole heartedly. Chibnall was the BBC giving the show a shot in the arm and it's fallen flat. Look at the ratings for any of RTD's series'. Consistently around the 8/9m mark in s4, there are of course drops in ratings in the series but you have to remember: RTD's Who was ALWAYS broadcast March-June, and the hot weather impacted on the ratings consistently each series. I agree, I'm cherrypicking which episode is the first, but you cannot deny episode 1's ratings are inflated because of the novelty of the first female Doctor, people wanted to see that. Viewer retention was a problem for Moffat, and it's now a problem for Chibnall. Episode 2 is always the real challenge in any television series, RTD was convinced the show would be shut down before he saw the ratings for The End of the World. There's been a consistent drop in ratings this series, and the finale 'boost' should be more than 300k. For s4, Partners in Crime got 9.14 and then the finale got 10.97 (assuming this is consolidated with iPlayer, not really sure in 2008 though). Compare this to Chibnall's drop, started out with 10.960 and ended up with nearly half that (gotta wait for the consolidated ratings to see the final number). Viewer retention is absolutely wank and denying it's a problem is just foolhardy. Going from 10m to 6m for the finale is SHOCKING. Moffat's first series had the same ratings as s4 (after including iPlayer), despite the change. There is something very wrong.

I am not denying there is a problem with viewer retention but that again, has always been an issue with modern Doctor Who and you can't discount the Moffatt era when looking at viewing figures at that excludes seven years of data, whether you liked his run or not. And more to the point we don't yet know what the final viewing figures are for the series final are, we only have the overnight figures which again, have a drop to them, but so do the view figures of almost ever opening and closing episode of every series of modern Doctor Who save for Tennant's final series which gained them.

I'd exclude Moffat's era if it didn't directly proceed Chibnalls. This means the ratings have been disappointing for over half a decade now. It's a problem.

One thing I would like to say about viewing figures is that we live in different times to 2005. I don't think you can directly compare RTD figures to Chibnall figures because it's simply a different TV landscape - internally at the BBC from what I've heard they definitely take that into consideration. Much fewer people in general are watching broadcast TV, even including iPlayer figures - so many people will now wait till the entire series is out and binge it over the coming years. Should you completely not bother to look at ratings? Definitely not. Personally I kind of agree with EG and I still think there's been too large a dip for Jodie's series. But it's maybe less of a dip than it would appear if you directly compare Series 1-4's ratings to Series 11s without context. Like I said earlier though I'm doubtful of the thought that we might be about to experience more wilderness years. Above all else I think the BBC would want to avoid the headlines of them cancelling Doctor Who right after the first female Doctor. In addition by the time series 12 airs we will only be three years away from the 60th which I imagine the BBC will also be eye-ing up as a good ratings generator.

Erm... yes it was, You can look them up for yourself, one week the figures have been in the 9 Mill range, next week around 7, often they would fluctuate sometimes exceeding the previous weeks but often times being lower maybe jumping back up again because it was the series final or it was an episode reintroducing a classic monster. Hell when you compare figures what we have this year isn't a million miles away from the figures from RTD's era and are still far and away better than series 9 where most episode's final figures struggled to break 6.5mil and whose over night figures got as low as 3.7mill which itself is only 200,000 or so away from Battlefield from McCoy era which is the story with the lowest figures I could find from the classic run. Yes, this series lost viewers over the course of its run. I am not arguing it didn't nor am I trying to defend it for doing so but the idea that the series is in dire straights right now as a result of that is in my view incorrect. You are free to like or dislike a series or show runner as much as you please but please, acting like the show is collapsing around us again, after the the viewing figures that previous series have gotten is alarmist. Because it it did come down to the pure viewing figures (And it wasn't due to the fact the series was commissioned to 2020) the show would have probably ended after the last series, if indeed it came back after the figures from the one proceeding it. Yeah, I am nervous about the fact that the next series is set to come out when the contract for the show runs out with a show runner who is rumored to be wanting to leave after his next one so it all might well end at the same time but as someone else said previously given the viewing figures the show has had (Even if it did loose more that a few over the course of the series) and how much profit this show can still be for the beeb (Because lets face it they need some big shows seeing as they keep loosing them as of late) it probably will keep going after 2020 Chibnall or not.

I don't think they'll come right out and cancel it per se, I think they'll say the show is going on indefinite hiatus/an extended break. EDIT: Another glaring issue with s11 is Yaz. She is useless. Chibnall just didn't bother to write her a character. Ryan and Graham have both been properly fleshed out and developed, having a little character arc each. Yaz has had fuck all. All I can tell you about her is that she's close to her family and she's a police officer (I can only think of three episodes where this is bought up, and in It Takes You Away it's only a throwaway line. Like, fuck me Chibnall, where's the drama between the TARDIS team? Make Yaz the one who disagrees with the Doctor's ultra pacifism and have her butt heads with the Doctor because she's a copper and the Doctor is constantly breaking and entering. ANYTHING else would have been better than the Yaz we got. I feel SO bad for Mandip Gill. You can cut her out and give her lines to Ryan and it would change nothing.

I honestly forgot Yaz was even in the show in the Witchfinders episode, I must have burped of sneezed when the Doctor said to them all to split up and she was to go off to find the girl and because she left such a little imprint in that story I just didn't notice she wasn't in the same scene as everyone else and got confused when she seemingly suddenly just teleport away to meet the girl. I like her character for the most part, I think she is underused and could be an interesting character but for too much of the show she is just there. She reminds me a lot of Nyssa from the classic series where conceptually she could be neat but just seemed to vanish for whole episodes, hell seemingly whole stories without me noticing.

She'll get some more development in s12 because everyone and their Nan has pointed out that she does fuck all. I don't like her character yet because she's just been very bland, she just feels like dead weight to me tbh which is a massive shame for the actress because you can tell she tries with what she's been given. In It Takes You Away, where only her and Graham are with the Doctor, you'd think she'd be given a couple of character development moments, but she's only there so the Doctor can dump exposition about the Solitract.

Honestly I think the discussion about after S12 is hard because in my mind it truly depends on if Chibnall is staying or not, and if he isn't who the BBC would have in mind (if anyone) to take over. Same with Jodie to a certain extent. If they have an idea for someone who would be a great showrunner for S13 and that person is interested I think they'll be willing to let them have a go without a hiatus. Or if Chib wants to do S13 (I mean he said he had a five year plan, right?) they'll probably let him continue unless S12 *really* tanks. That said if Chib wants to leave and the BBC have no ideas for a new Doctor Who showrunner.. that's when I'd be worried. Sometimes I wonder if RTD would ever want to have another crack at it if it was that or the show ending. Who knows.