The Doctor Who Spoilers and Speculation Thread V3 - "Oh, brilliant." - Film, Television and Music

the wi-fi / netflix / phone signal joke was the dumbest thing I've seen this show do fucking hell

Yeah that also seemed kind of out of place and sort of impacted the pacing of the episode, the "monster line" was enough really.

I wouldn't say this series was hollow, far from it, either in terms of the themes within it or in terms of the emotional weight there in. It is just done differently. This series has been more interested in the small interpersonal moments between characters than the larger and more 'epic' moments prior to this. Not wishing to sound dismissive or anything to what came before this series, but if you had an emotional moment prior to this in the RTD and Moffat era it would be accompanied by a welsh choir in the back ground, long lingering looks at our characters, a swell of music and David Tennent standing in the rain and every moment like it would be the biggest and most important thing ever to happen to those characters (and if it was the Moffat era the history of the show). This series if something like that is done it is done between two characters trying to come to terms with something, the loss of a loved one, being trapped in an era where the colour of their skin and one off look could see them get killed and one one would bat an eye then the realization that whilst things have improved in their era it still isn't perfect, reconnecting with an estranged family member or exploring one's family history and learning it isn't what you were led to believe and that the story you were told was a lie. As to whether this approach works for you or not or if you like what they did is a whole other matter, but it was still there. And again, not wanting to sound dismissive or condescending or anything like that but this is the first time in the past thirteen or so years the show has been on air that there has been such a difference from one series to the next in terms of its story structure, format and style. Whilst the quality between the RTD and Moffat era is up for debate, you have to admit that they do look and operate incredibly similar to one and other. In the classic run, how stories worked in the 60's compared to the 70's is different, like wise from 70's to 80's, 80's to the 90's movie and the 90's movie to the 00's series. Practically every decade would function differently to the one prior, even between Doctors it could change, goodness, in some cases between series with the same Doctor it could change. In the modern run that hasn't really happened to such an extent. You'll get some more nominal changes but nothing quite as different as the 2nd Doctor's Last Story vs the 3rd's First one, or the last story of the 4th Doctor's 70's Run vs his first in the 80's. This is why it seems to me why this series feels so, for want of a better word, 'odd' for some people. Because for them, if you take what for over a decade was the overriding style and function of the show and compare it to now it really isn't the same show. You wouldn't have as many small moments in the RTD or Moffat era as in this one and you don't have as many epic moments in this series as you had in the previous series. Not because one way is better than the other, but just because that is how things were done then verses now. Granted which approach you prefer is up to you. For my money I don't think one is better than the other, it is what one does with it that is the key. Of course I don't want to seem like I am speaking for people, you may well just find this series to be dull end of. But when I look at what has been posted in this thread and some places online it does feel like it is a matter of it being almost like culture shock; this series is so different in its method than last series it will naturally feel strange. This isn't like the transition from RTD to Moffat. We are in a whole new era. It may take some getting used to for some, and it could still change in on coming series. But that is what this show is about, renewal and change. Maybe you'll come to like it, maybe not. But like I said previously as a fan there is just some things I have had to learn to make peace with. And one of those things is change. It can be scary, can be worrying. But as fans we cross that bridge together for good or for ill.

I'm sorry, but some of that is plainly incorrect. You know what made me emotional in Series 10? "I do what I do because it's right! Because it's decent! And above all, it's kind." Zero music. Zero long lingering looks. A conversation between three (two?) people. The stakes are a handful of people's lives. To suggest there aren't small and intimate moments in the RTD and Moffat era is to be watching a different show. Are there bombastic moments too? Sure. The moment where Capaldi is blowing up the Cybermen to the Heaven Sent music in the same episode is excellent and I love it. It had both. But even that doesn't matter, because I'm happy with change and would be fine with all small moments. I personally think a lot of S11 worked - Rosa, Kerblam!, It Takes You Away are all excellent (among others). Me saying that alone should tell you it's literally nothing to do with me not liking change, it's about this episode simply not being as good in a very particular way. And, on that note, even if it was about smaller moments - are we really trying to pretend they weren't trying to have supposedly bombastic moments in this episode? They were, but even when they had them they didn't mean anything. And that's why it's sad.

I liked it

I disagree that they didn't mean anything or didn't work. I really enjoyed the episode and thought it was really well done.

This episode felt super safe and by the numbers. The start was really interesting, with the Dalek out of its casing and puppeteering the woman, but it felt like Chibnall didn't really know where else to go with that and just stalled for time until he could get it to the farm to build its casing. Shame too, as I'm not really much of a Dalek fan and was hoping he'd go all in on that more interesting direction.

I really liked it, the Dalek felt like a threat this time and the Doctor actually felt scared of it unlike the last few appearances.

My only issue with the episode was the anti-Dalek microwave(oven) belt. I get that for a while the Doctor has had a "no Guns" policy, but the Daleks really should be an exception. I was expecting the plan to be one of them whipping out a microwave(oven) gun, not all of them mobbing the Dalek and hoping they don't get hit by the death rays.

Idk man, making a belt seems more realistic than building a gun out of a microwave and under time constraints and lack of resources.

I never said that there wasn't smaller moments in the last series or there wasn't bigger ones in this, I just said they were fewer. I am just saying that the notion but forwards by some that there has been zero emotional moments within this past series or this episode is, to quote your good self 'plainly incorrect' as it has been just done differently; differently to what the mode of doing this has been for the past thirteen or so years. And to use your example, that wasn't really a conversation, it was a monologue, a speech, there is nothing small about it, just taking the music out and having him standing in the moon light doesn't make it small or at least not small in the way that this series wishes to do it. You are free to like or dislike whatever you wish from past series to current ones but the notion that there was nothing here at all I found astounding. It may not have landed for you, you may not have liked it, but it was there.

What's wrong with complaining about it now? I complained about it every time Moffat used it. The argument that we should be okay with a shitty ending because it's been done loads over the years is genuinely ridiculous. Chibnall is shit at writing endings, he rushes them. Graham should have been the one controlled at the end. Baffling that Chibnall thought the audience would care about a character we've been conditioned to dislike throughout the whole of s11. A whole series spent on the Graham/Ryan relationship, a whole hour spent on Aaron/Ryan, yet we're supposed to care? Chibnall again could have actually done something interesting if the Doctor had let Aaron die because killing the Dalek was worth it, make it ambiguous like the Clockwork Droid death in Deep Breath if you like. Get some tension going in the TARDIS, would be an interesting dynamic for s12. But nah, 13 has no edge. I thought she was going to get angry when she sent away the companions in the warehouse, but nah, more of the same.

Nothing wrong with it but I've rarely seen people complain till now. Must have missed/forgotten it, sorry. Never said that, just said it was a dumb complaint, dumb because I thought people didn't complain the other times.

Then you must be new on this forum. Complaining is kind of EG19's trademark, not that it's any problem. And a lot of other people have been complaining about the power of love endings for a very long time now, and not just on this forum. I agree totally on the fact that Chib has trouble doing good ending

Resolution rated lower than Episode 10 at 5.15m on the night. What a way to round off a run which started with the biggest springboard the show could have hoped for.

Yeah it is a shame, most of the other shows from last night weren't that much higher. I genuinely think that, whilst this was set on New Years Day it still probably should have been a Christmas Special. Sure the beeb put it on yesterday so there would at least be a little Doctor Who in 2019 but I don't think this is how you should go about it.

Been providing my complaining services since 2011. I'll never stop. I'll always praise this show when praise is due, but similarly I'm not afraid to say it's shit if it's shit; I feel like that sort of criticism can only really be provided by someone who loves and knows this show through and through. It Takes You Away is a mesmerising tour de force and that makes the rest of s11/Resolution all the more disappointing, because the potential is there if the right writer can capitalize on it. Kerblam!, Rosa and Demons are also signs that there's life in the old girl yet.

Nah I'm not new, been here since 08. Guess I just forgotten.

I hope Daleks don't laugh ever again outwith them being insane (by Dalek standards) or not Daleks. Otherwise just make another scary iconic monster and scrap the Daleks rather than retconning it.

is Nicholas Briggs now the first actor since the handover to repeat a role they played in the pre-Chibnall era?

How is Daleks laughing a retcon?

Rewatched the ep with my family. Gotta say that while I hate the family household scene, it was nice actually seeing the impact of the events on just normal people, reminds me of how RTD did it. Think Moffat did it once or twice sadly.

Pretty sure they say the only emotion they have are hate, pain and a little bit of fear or something like that? Have you ever heard a non insane dalek laugh?

I think you could include condescending mockery under 'hatred', to be honest. That's the tone of laughter the Dalek was creating. (Idk maybe also something about it interfacing with a human and how that generally tends to make Daleks more sensitive to emotional outbursts and such)

Headcanon: The laugh is a psychological tactic. We haven't seen it until now because a Dalek hasn't been in much long term "negotiation" with someone on-screen.

I enjoyed some of the new eps, but overall the quality just seemed really cheap on most parts, probably just me that thinks that

Yes, classic who actually, tho technically while it wasn't insane, it wasn't a normal Dalek as it had the Human Element. For all we know, the Dalek controlling a human could of caused it. And another idea is this is a Recon Dalek, they aren't like Normal Daleks, this Dalek can interfere with technology. Also you can still laugh, be sane and all of those things you know. And even then, what's the big deal with a laughing Dalek? It's honestly such a small issue, if it was like the Dalek being nicer or something, sure you have a point. If anything the interfering with technology is a bigger Retcon than laughing, and even then it's explained by the Recon Dalek being different.

Maybe they weren't really laughing and were just replicating it to take the piss out of them?

I wouldn't have minded the laugh if the Dalek actually had the mannerisms of a Dalek. Almost everything it said for the first half of the episode sounded really wrong coming from a Dalek, and it wasn't the voice modulation doing it.

I suppose it's just my preference if they didn't make the Dalek laugh. For me it really fits poorly with the whole concept of that monster. Like when the Cybermen sounded more human-like in the classic one it was a bit strange. I don't think it detracts from the episode for others but it does for me if you know what I mean?