• A Song of Ice and Fire /Game of Thrones Discussion V2: Winter Is Here
    999 replies, posted
I can now be certain that the show completely ruined Jaime's arch. Who actually wanted to see Jaime and Cersei end up together? She wanted him killed couple of episodes back. Dany's fall into madness had very, very poor build-up. I would at least get it a bit if she went crazy right off the bat, ignoring the bells. But right after the city is taken? Hilarious how the scorpions got nerfed when the receiving party had to win. Great A writing. Another great piece of writing: Hi, I'm Euron, let's fight. I'm actually hoping he survived the fight so he can pop in unexpected next episode for some last laughs.
Wow this episode was just a rollercoaster of idiocy. I had problems with 803 and 804, but this was legitimately a near unbroken chain of dumb moments. "There won't be an Iron Fleet tomorrow" excuse me, that fleet killed a dragon and made Daenerys flee not long ago? How can you possibly expect to defeat that fleet? Did he know the scorpions were going to get nerfed before this episode? Incredible scorpion nerf between episodes, apparently ballistas can now only be used when the camera is on them. I kept thinking "ah so she destroyed all of them" only for the next scene to show like five more of them in a row, not being used or only -just- getting used, and then getting blown to bits. Endless scenes showing Cersei just standing there, in the open, at the window, alone... and Daenerys just destroying random shit for like 30 minutes before finally heading to the Keep. I don't mind Dany going Mad Queen, but she's just straight up mindless. I have no idea what she was actually doing, she was literally targeting everything except Cersei for the majority of the time, she could even easily have killed basically anyone on her own side and nearly did kill Arya on multiple occasions
honestly i dont think it's really that much of a stretch for jaime to go back to cersei in the end. people go back to their exes all the time. sure the redemption arc was great and im a bit disappointed he wasn't the one to kill cersei, but people are acting like it's completely implausible that someone like him would want to go back to the person he's loved deeply his entire life when faced with the fact that she will most likely be killed. he still defended the north, and who knows maybe if he was able to get to her first, he could have convinced her to ring the bells (which he would have believed was helping to save the city, none of them would have assumed dany would snap at the bells)
i actually think that makes more sense, she's built her whole life on getting the throne and when she's finally got it she has no idea how to define herself anymore, and goes mad. perhaps implying that she was always irrationally fixated on the throne itself, but no one realized she was truly insane because from the outside she was just playing the game. it's a really interesting arc, sure wish it was actually present in the show lol
She said earlier in the episode that no one loved her in Westeros and she chose to rule through fear. She is destroying Kings Landing as an example of what will happen if anyone else questions her reign.
So one little thing that they could have done differently in this episode that would have been a cool setup for the next is, not have the fucking northmen and men of the vale go psycho. They're not loyal the Dany, they're loyal to Jon Snow. So why do they decide, while Jon is telling them to hold, to start going nuts? You know what would have made more sense? If the bells ring and the city has surrendered, so Jon starts taking his army. Then suddenly Dany goes crazy and the Unsullied and Dothraki are rampaging in the streets. They don't listen to Jon, so Jon takes his men and pulls back. Then in the next episode you can get a big fight between Jon's northern army and Dany's foreign army, like with Dany feeling that Jon has become a full traitor by withdrawing and Jon wanting to stop Dany.
see
I honestly would have been perfectly OK withthe city's surrender being accepted and everything more or less turning out OK since there are still plenty of subplots to tie up (although many less now with Jaime and the Hound being dead). There could have been plenty of political intrigue around handling Cersei's dethroning and the changing of the guard from the Lannister army.
She needs all of the Seven Kingdoms to fear her, not just Kings Landing.
i hope ghost uses artotias’ sword and gets revenge on jon for being a giant doo doo head.
She's showing all the seven kingdoms that surrendering to her won't spare them. She's demonstrating that it doesn't matter if you fear her, it doesn't matter if you submit to her, she'll just destroy for the sake of it. That's not a message that it makes any sense to go sending to the rest of Westeros.
That's certainly a debatable point when considering this is a medieval world, and basically all information spreads by word of mouth. It's not for sure one way or the other, but it's debatable.
Well lets remember varys burnt that last letter he was working on but i expect he did get that message out already since we see him writing multiple of those. I think that's why he was more just content with what was happening. He already spiked dany's claim to the throne and told whoever is alive about jon's heritage. Or at least i think that's what was supposed to be shown, nothing has made sense this episode so that might not actually matter.
It tells them that if they question her rule they will be destroyed. No one else is claiming a right to the throne, who is left that needs to surrender? I'm not saying it was the right thing to do or that it was a good strategy but Daenerys is a hot headed idiot with a family history of mental illness who has pretty much always relied on advisors to stop her fucking up.
I actually had hope this episode would be good until the bells, and then it all blew away in that one shot where Daenerys started burning civilians alive. Never seen an episode turn from pretty great to trash in one single plot twist, "see the good guys are the bad guys now oooohh how subversive." 8 seasons of character developpement and plot sacrificed for free shock value points. Cleaganebowl was ok but it doesnt save this dumpster fire of a plot twist. The writer's commentary was genuinely painful to watch, the guy talked about how important it was to show the impact of the heroes decisions on the civilians and common people, something they've completely ignored for entire seasons; Showing instead painfully forced drama between awfully written starks and danny. And only now they show the impact of the heroes decisions on common people and the world at large, but only to show kids dying and people burning alive for literally not reason. That's what the show is now. Everything is there for shock value and nothing else.
Probably any potential enemies for her in the seven Kingdoms.
Dolphins maybe
This sums everything: Spoiler, i guess
I'm talking about the start of the battle when the Golden Company is marching outside the city gates to engage Jon and his army. They're pushing through a crowd of people racing to get into the city (the same point where we see Arya and Sandor enter) but there's no reason for so many people to be outside the city walls when there seemingly is nothing out there. Another gripe I have with this character arc is this whole notion that "nobody in Westeros loves Dany, but everyone loves Jon" because it's not really true, and if it is supposed to be true they haven't shown it well. Dany landed at Dragonstone and immediately had the backing of Dorne, the Reach, and a primary claimant to the Iron Islands. She subsequently won the loyalty of the King in the North. She could win the loyalty of the Riverlands, given that Edmure Tully should be an easy get at this point, and could likely get the support of the Vale which seems part and parcel to the North at this point. Admittedly these are the lords of the realm and not the people, but that's primarily because she's had no real opportunity to court the people as she did at Slaver's Bay. She's not going on a city-to-city liberation tour. It's a different kettle of fish entirely. She wasn't loved in the Free Cities,, she certainly wasn't loved in Qarth, and she was only loved in the Slave Cities after she marched on each of them and won. Why would the people of King's Landing love her when, in her very first introduction to them, she burns them en-masse? Take the city first, and then see about winning hearts and minds. As for the "everybody loves Jon" angle, that's not really true either. Yes, Jon has the support of his family and the Northerners, but surely that's to be expected given that he's the one who brought these people together and brought down the Boltons. And even then, up until after the battle against the NK, half his lords were bitching that he had bent the knee and done them wrong - showing that said loyalty wasn't truly secure until after they won. And besides, it's not like everybody was laughing in their cups at Dany after the fight. She toasted Arya and everyone cheered, she legitimized Gendry and they all cheered. The celebration after the battle should be the time for her to lay it on thick and really sell herself and the efforts of her and her army, and instead she sits there and glowers because Sansa doesn't like her, and because Jon's Wilding friends are patting him on the back. Maybe if she'd ENGAGE with the people who she wants to love her, she might win them over. Going beyond the scope of the North, I sincerely doubt the name Jon Snow means much of anything to anyone. We're supposed to believe that once everyone heard the unverifiable story that Jon is actually a secret Targaryen that they'd all fall in line behind him rather than Dany because they all prefer him to her, but there's little reason to think that. Consider that your average Southron lord would know Jon Snow as "Ned Stark's bastard" and "the Lord Commander who let the Wildlings past the Wall" and Dany as "the last true remaining Targaryen" and suddenly the lines are a little blurred. Is a story, that hasn't been proven beyond the claim of Bran Stark, really going to be so impactful that everybody will fall in line behind a Northern bastard as their king?
Episode 5 spoilers https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/241569/bd28d23a-cb8f-46e2-a368-edf3ac3cbf11/1557775411811.png
I remember a few seasons ago there was this dude who'd make humorous summaries of all the episodes with screenshots. Is that still around?
This episode was so stupid I resorted to just spamming an airhorn during the 'bowl just to feel an emotion again. Props to the writers for killing Dany's character, who knew they could do it in such a contrived fashion. Not gonna lie, right before the battle when the wind blew I thought they would pull a Night King/winter/Brananigans switcharoo, but nope. Just Drogon and him being an agile boi. What the fuck did I just watch...
On a more positive note, I finally got the Burlington Bar reaction video I've been waiting for. You can actually pinpoint the second their hearts break in half.
Sam killed more people than the entire Golden Company.
I only just watched Ep 4 and it's already very dumb. I bet we could do one of those "one word at a time" threads and write a better fanfic than this. And faster than GRRM
Maybe my expectations have just fallen so low that I'll take anything now, but I genuinely thought it was ok. The worst of it was the clunky dialogue and questionable small decisions, like Varys' death and the Arya sequence, as has been the theme, but honestly no show ruining writing. Of all the things to complain about, I find the complaints of 'ruining' Dany to be pretty baseless. If people didn't even have an inkling that it could have ended like that, I'm not sure what show they've been watching. Not to mention that becoming an authoritarian tyrant is a pretty standard trope for someone who has been portrayed like she was seasons 1-5. I guess her descent could and should have taken longer but I'm glad it ended that way. The show is of course past the point of redemption, but it made me feel angry in the classic Game of Thrones way rather than the 'Arya just killed the NK' kind of way. That's a good thing at least.
Now I wonder what Bronn will be up to. They wouldn't discard that storyline after committing to it, would they?
It throws away the complete character arc and puts the fight humans vs humans in the absolute wrong context.
This feels like a show that was planned to be 10 seasons, then were told just before the 8th that they had to wrap it up in 6 episodes. Most of the plot decisions could have been fine, if it just had the time to be set up properly and the writing to get them there actually made sense. Truly a shame that what was a great, at least semi intelligent show, with many talented people involved ends in a rushed mess that sacrifices it's integrity just to wrap it up quickly.
S8E5 SPOILERS https://vredd.it/files/spoilers_i_am_amazed_how_well_that_fits-uopaqbtqh0y21.mp4
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