A Song of Ice and Fire /Game of Thrones Discussion V2: Winter Is Here
999 replies, posted
Don’t quote me on this but I’ve been hearing that HBO was willing to give whatever resources were needed to finish the story in a complete and satisfying way, but D&D wanted to finish it in a shortened season. David even said “we always saw this as a 73 hour series”
I read the same thing, that both HBO and GRRM wanted more seasons & episodes but it was D&D who wanted to wrap it up. Even more confusing why the creators themselves wouldn't want to take the time to finish it properly.
I wouldn't have complained if this happened in the episode.
This is really the crux of the matter. More than the shitty writing and unnecessary drama, the vast, VAST majority of this could have been a lot more believable and enjoyable if they had gone for a full 10 episode season for S7 and S8 (and introduced Daenerys' actual decent into madness by the end of Season 7, not Episode 4 of the final season.) This has honestly been eating at me all day as to what really bothers me about this season and it's that the writers have apparently forgotten that the journey and how it's presented matters just as much as the destination.
I feel kind of mixed about last night's episode. Like most people I thought that what was once my favourite show about Machiavellian medieval politics got dumbed down severely. But honestly, I didn't find the main plotpoint that terrible. Dany genociding King's Landing has been foreshadowed for a long time, and having lost all heir close friends and advisors, as well as having 'crazy genes', I don't find it out of character for her to do so. Although the script was shoddy at moments,I think what really ruined this season was the pacing. If Dany went from executing prisoners of war to commiting genocide in like, 10 episodes, instead of 5, things might've felt less rushed and crazy. The same for Jaimy, his character arc feels ruined because of his last minute decision to die with Cersei. If the plot moved at a slower pace this might've made more sense.
This episode did confirm my fears that the leaks about the finale are true though, Next week is undoubtly going to be fucking retarded. All hail the god emperor.
I see people mentioning that Dany already showed signs of madness this season before this episode. What specifically do you mean?
(Spoilers) Another golden shitpost from r/freefolk
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bo58ei/thank_you_dd_for_ruining_it_for_us/
I wouldn't say she showed signs of actual madness, but there was a clear deterioration of her spirit, especially in Episode 4. She lost the man she loves, as well as Jorah & Missandei in rapid succession. She feels alone during the feast after they win against the Night's King, and rightfully so as for some reason basically everyone is ignoring her (save for Tormund: total bro). She's terrified that everything she's worked for will be for naught, as Jon has a stronger claim and more love and respect from the people in Westeros than she does.
However, I do not see that as madness. Those are justified fears that feed a justified anger, and maybe it's all this swirling in her head that makes her think simply claiming the throne is no longer good enough. The sad thing is that, had this all been spread out across an entire season, it would have made for a great "Fall from Grace" storyline. Unfortunately, this happened in about 20 minutes of screentime for her character, which makes the abrupt switch from "Destroy my enemies and retake what's mine" to "Imma burn everyone, innocent or not" so jarring. And after what she's done, there's absolutely no redemption for her character, and we get to watch everything she worked for get destroyed in the span of one episode. Goddamn shame, really, and I'm pissed that D&D decided that this was enough time to tell this story. Now I understand why Emilia Clark was so upset.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/238543/9cd415c9-2a8f-4cab-a268-5201c1c4242a/image.png
Great shot from the last episode. Reminds me of an old renaissance or baroque painting
Yeah I’m not sure why everyone is so surprised. It didn’t feel jarring to me at all, honestly this episode was amazing. I think it’s the best of the season for sure.
She has always had a quick temper, been power hungry, and a means justifies the end sort of attitude. It’s only because of her advisors who she trusts. All which have either died, have betrayed, or she feels she can no longer trust their judgment.
On top of that she’s feeling as though she will never be a loved queen. Feels like an outsider. The man she loves no longer loves her. She watched two of her children die, and her best friend who found freedom, die a slave.
She’s not mad in the same way as the Mad King, but she is reckless.
Nah, she's pretty clearly supposed to be mad.
She even tried to do the whole "sex after burning people alive" thing that her dad was into.
S8E5 spoilers
can i just say thatgregor tossing qyburn like a rag-doll and him dying so instantaneous like a background character was oddly hilarious and somewhat satisfying to see
Imagine a full season of people dealing with Winter being there and people dealing with it plus White Walkers + internal fights.
Now "Winter is Coming" means... nothing.
The problem wasn't that there wasn't any hint of her eventually going mad, I saw it coming a mile away early on in the series (and it's almost boring that they did decide to go down that route), the problem is that fucking winning makes absolutely no sense as a straw that breaks the camel's back. Honestly during the scene where she starts breathing heavily in a fit of rage had me completely confused and it felt like the scene was shot with something else in mind, like seeing the death of a loved one. In fact, that would have made way more goddamn sense: Keep Missandei alive in episode 4 and have her death in episode 5 be the catalyst to Dany's descent into madness. Bonus point for triggering Grey Worm's anger as well.
I thought the show had professional writers, but it seems they're incapable of seeing such a glaring flaw and address it through one of the many easy fixes that could come to mind. The show starting to build up to this twist early on only makes it all the more jarring that they completely botched its execution.
I really thought he was a survivor.. He would've found a little corner of the court to hide in as a bumbling apothecary like old man pycell. *sigh*
Also what was up with the random gouts of wildfire blowing up random houses?
There's still caches of Wildfire all over KL. Even post-Sept-boom
It looks cool
"GOT creators"
Daenerys killing the surrendering soldiers would have been enough madness for me. No need for her to burn the civilians,it should have been Cersei that, in a moment of fear, seeing daenerys won't spare her life, should have detonated all the green fire in the city. Cersei is the "if i can't be queen nobody can".
I've never seen daenerys as a chaotic evil and cruel character. Her forcing cercei to kill everybody due to her rage after loosing her advisors would have been way more fitting. Still her fault in the end, but because of a mistake, not just too be evil.
Let's not talk about Jaime.
ngl I didn't like it. I feel like if they wanna go for a "subvert expectations lol" ending they should have several "bad" characters survive because they're either useful or good at hiding either physically or who they are.
imagine if Littlefinger ended up still around and was implied to be now plotting on a different continent or maybe he was only banished from the North and permanently limited in his power due to everyone in power knowing him but he still schemes to expand as a lesser strength. Maybe Qyburn manages to pull a "I was only following orders" and ends up still in a position of power, maybe even turning on cersei and being rewarded with forgiveness the was Sam will be, with the audience knowing what a monster he is but most of the surviving characters totally unaware, show that even in a "good" ending, power is power regardless of morality.
The "people of westeros hate me!!" Plot point is the most forced fake bs. Literally half the kingdom fought for her against cersei when she landed in dragonstone, jon bent the knee, northenmen are literally fighting and dying for her that episode, the sansa conflict is forced af. They foreshadowed her feeling the common people hates her with one scene of nord people not smiling when she entered winterfell (ok lol) and one scene of her being mad jon's friends get along with jon in the banquet when theses characters have known eachothers for entire seasons and just met danny.
Still cant get over the show runner bragged about "showing the common people affected by the heroes decisions" when by that they meant a few shock value of random civilians being burned alive in the second to last episode and nothing else. You know what would have made this episode make more sense? Actually SHOW US common people disliking daenerys and WHY, and not just one Qyburn line. What do people think of cersei after she blew up the high septon? How does she treat them? Why would the people hate daenerys more than cersei? Literally all of this is daenerys telling us "everyone hates me" without any justification for that. The world of westeros doesnt exist in any logic anymore, as long as danny has a reason to hate common people and mass murder them.
Yeah danny had a lot of shit happen to her (and almost all of it in past 2 seasons is so forced and some of the worst scenes in the entire show, especialy the dragons deaths) but none of it justifies killing tens of thousands innocents just for fun. Theses people have nothing to do with this, her dragon wasnt threatened once in the whole battle - Cersei was right there the whole time and shes the one responsible here. None of this made any sense. Foreshadowing something doesnt mean its execution is good or makes sense and ends character arcs well.
i had a feeling that when we got word that grrm already discussed the ending he had in plan for asoiaf, and what we got for season 6 and 7, that d&d would somehow do a shit job at explaining how things end up the way they do by the end.
i get that in asoiaf there are no good guys or bad guys, but this hard u turn that happened in episode 5 is not deserved at all with how shit the journey (season 7 and 8) has been leading up to it.
I have to say, after a whole day to process everything and everyone involved, the last episode is angering me more and more as I go back to it with my brain.
It also doesn't help that yesterday evening I had the pleasure of explaining to two friends of mine who read the books but gave up on them and the setting as a whole the most recent plot developments of the latest seasons. We had so much fun.
One thing I realized it's pissing me off far more than it should is how the writers have been threating Arya Stark in the latest seasons.
Aside from the whole character derailment thing (from an everygirl having to mature throught abandonment and adversity to a Chosen One badass), it seems that as some point the showrunners realized that the audience really love Arya and, thus, have been put her character in increasingly dangerous and seemingly deadly situation just to induce the viewers into thinking that, this time, she may have died for good and they may as well start crying for her beloved favorite. But nope, she's still alive. Fooled ya.
You know, when a fiction becomes a parody of itself and starts downright cheating its audience as a substitute to a good narrative
I've spent some time collating all the foreshadowing from the books and am ready to share my predictions for the conclusion to some of the main characters' stories:
Bran Flakes: after weaponising autism in the form of a disabled corvid, Bran Flakes will build two Starbucks in the North and institute dogging as a national pastime.
Salsa Starch: becomes an Instagram celebrity influencer and gets in trouble with the FTC for betraying her followers' trust. She then becomes a furry and serves the king in his sexual deviancy.
Jon Snowden: leaks a trove of documents pertaining to unauthorised drone strikes on the Night King and is charged with espionage, so hides in Essos with his pet duck, Rufus.
King Jeffrey: rises as a sentient wight and gets a job as a regional manager at one of Bran Flakes' Starbucks franchises. Currently embroiled in sexual harassment lawsuit.
Kelly C: decides her burning passion is in fact beauty vlogging and sets up YouTube channel. She is demonetised for 'extremist views' and banned from Twitter.
if critics are giving the long night an overall positive rating then the other episodes' scores are pretty meaningless to me tbh
Just heard the final leak. I'm not sure how many here are aware of it and I'm not posting it here, but just...holy shit. If you thought 803 was as bad as things could get, if you thought 805 was as bad as things could get, you will not fucking believe the unfathomable stupidity of this series ending.
i almost want the finale to be bad just to complete that nosedive that the RT scores have been so far.
https://i.imgur.com/qTbuaaJ.jpg
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