A Song of Ice and Fire /Game of Thrones Discussion V2: Winter Is Here
999 replies, posted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZgwFZh0Dg
Spoilers for Episode 5
semi related, but shout-outs to this nice awkward timing for the official confirmation of that story from awhile ago lol
https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-first-star-wars-films-after-rise-of-skywalker-will-1834749699
“We did a deal with David Benioff and D.B Weiss, who are famous for Game of Thrones, and the next movie that we release will be theirs,” Iger said. “And we’re not saying anything more about that.”
"-because we're hoping to find a way out of it"
How the fuck could they think it'd be a great idea?
I’m guessing there is reason to believe the leaks are real? Because of the previous leaks being real or what was it
That's where you're wrong. D&D only have like 4 writing credits to their names outside of GoT, none of them are TV credits.
They were approached last year, or the year before. Before this season started.
I've never seen such talentless hacks manage to coast off of the skill, hard work, and dedication of the people around them on this level.
From one sinking ship that they themselves caused, to another one that's already ablaze.
http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/13/idiocy-on-the-internet/
Welp, gotta keep playing the waiting game.
Do you guys think that me believing that the very last episode of the series will feature the return of Stannis Baratheon, who was secretly spared by Brienne aftert a hearted talk or something, and him crushin all opposition and becoming the sole and perpetual ruler of the Seven Kingdoms is a clear sign of me going completely delusional about the show or ...?
On a positive note, I'm at least content with how everything went with The Hound. He got his revenge without it feeling absurd or plot-armor earned, his final words to Sansa and Arya both were great, and he was just overall entertaining throughout. At least that worked out in the end, thankfully. And thank god he's not gonna be anywhere near the final episode.
Would your expectations perhaps be, subverted?
If so, I wouldn't rule it out.
it was the most consistent arc in the episode but it still kinda misses the point of his character, like yeah we GOT HYPE but he basically fails to beat any of his personal demons and dies for it. all he really does is get outwardly a little nicer and stop arya from killing herself in the same totally unnecessary way he does
The gravedigger versus Robert Strong will probably happen, but it won't quite be the Hound versus the Mountain. The Hound and the Mountain are both deads in the books, although Sandor Clegane may still live, and Gregor Clegane's corpse is moving around.
I might be setting myself up to eat crow here, but I'm not actually that worried about them directing; they've done a couple episodes earlier and I remember both being fine. The problem is what they've written themselves into: I've ready plenty of interesting theories as to how this is all gonna wrap up with hopes for a few more giant plot twists...but I'm fearful that we're going to get EXACTLY what we think we're going to get, with none of the surprises that would help save what's left of the story.
Here's to hoping, anyway. Only one more week for us to have to do that.
What's really sad is this ending would probably satisfy me more than whatever D & D have cooked up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uNgQ-lK9ks
Posting this because of what he said about the opening scene with the little girl. The whole thing felt lost on me and I had no idea what the point was. His explanation of it being Vary's trying to poison Dany makes sense. "We'll try again at supper." Unless I'm missing something else.
big spoilers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHRPCedHVOs
this is for anyone who still thinks the breakneck speed at which they murdered dany's character was justified
So what would you say to a cut of all the times she was cruel and such?
Her cruelness throughout the series has always been excused by the audience because she's a justified hero character.
She could be cruel but she's never been a school shooter
The problem is the lack of consistency. She's constantly trying to champion the common people and the downtrodden while her victims are generally slave-holding nobility,so it's a big 180 for her to get angry and then start burning random people for a half hour before she gets to the Red Keep. I think she'll end up like this in the books, but they've been doing a better job of developing her as a potential tyrant (towards the end of ADWD I think she outright embraces the Targaryen "fire and blood" thing), as well as benefiting from having fAegon who could likely be replacing Cersei on the throne for the finale. Her turn into an angry and jealous tyrant makes more sense if fAegon is on the throne and is accepted as being her brother, giving him a claim that people will respect more while simultaneously being seen as a savior from the hated Lannisters. Her army of Dothraki and Unsullied will make her seem like a foreign invader, and being rejected by the people of Westeros will give her much more reason to snap. It's jarring because of how much they cut from the books and how quickly they decided to wrap up the story, not because it's 100% out of the blue. They spent 7 seasons going from 1-40 and now in two episodes they've gone from 40-90.
I'm not arguing that it wasn't done well, it's presented terribly in the show.
I'm simply saying this, to me, seems like a natural continuation of her path. She always seemed to have a very dark side to me.
The show completely fails at presenting this in a timely manner, there's so many small tweaks that could have made that more believable but really, we needed a full 10 episode season for that to be fully realized.
Every villain is the hero of their own story right? I always felt like Dany is what happens when you're experiencing that along side them, seeing that story unfold, and rooting for that character the whole time. At the very least in the books I think there is also the added effect of the unreliable narrator when we see things from her perspective and the followers around her. In the both the books and the show she has always been ruthless with her enemies. The show did not do a good job AT ALL of convincingly displaying the fall, but i really agree with all who say this is always where she was heading. I am definitely not making excuses for anything in the show i'm just really surprised how many people think she would also make a turn towards a kind and just disney princess ruler.
Yes, they came from the same source (r/FreeFolk) that accurately predicted the outcome for 803 and 804, so we don't really have any reason to doubt them at this point.
I was totally on board with Dany going all mad queen if it meant she's trying to take the throne at all costs and killing hundreds of civilians as collateral damage along the way. That's how they were playing her path up over the last few episodes.
But no, in the end they made it so she didn't actually need to kill any civilians, she chose to do it for no goddamn reason, like a full blown cartoon villain. The battle was already won, she could straight up go and take the throne that she was obsessing over for the past 7 seasons, then at the flip of a switch, she just decides to burn it all down. Seriously? And of course her last dragon was so conveniently overpowered that she won the battle pretty much singlehandedly, while Euron's ships and all the scorpions suddenly became completely useless. All of this was in stark contrast to the previous situation where her dragons got taken down easily and the scorpions were accurate af. It's like the writers are throwing the consistency of the world that they built away just to conveniently move the plot in whichever direction they need it to go. That's shoddy writing of the highest magnitude.
You can pick out the things DnD added or rewrote by how cartoony they are. It's why Euron went from an eldritch death knight to a "finga in da bum" off-brand Jack Sparrow. It's why we got Karl fookin Tanner from Gin Alley drinking out of a skull at Craster's Keep. It's why Cersei went from a ruthless but stupid narcissist to someone that sips wine dramatically and executes people to taunt enemies that she could just kill outright. It's why Littlefinger lost all pretense of subtlety. And it's why Dany snapping is portrayed as a pointless slaughter of innocents after she's won the battle and can just go kill Cersei if she's so damn mad about Missandei and Rhaegal.
I genuinely don't see this. The episode would have been honestly great if cersei blew up the wildfire caches, or if we saw some civilians suffering as collateral damage from danny's violent attack of the city as she killed cersei. But there's nothing dark about her doing this, it's just shock value completely out of character, even accounting for the abysmal writing of the last 2 seasons.
Aegon was genuinely mad and completely psychopathic, and wouldn't have done this until he was losing the city to a rebellion. She could have had a "dark" ending without this "hm lets just go out of my way to kill as many defenceless innocents as I can".
What makes this genuinely awful is how literally every other main characters' arcs were sacrificed to lead up to this. Worst are probably Jon, Tyrion and Cersei, you literally have to go back to old seasons to remember what was great about thoses characters. Jaimes entire character progression was just completely erased last minute.
Her character arc leading up to a lot of suffering and violence? sure. But it leading to completely free genocide, no I dont see it, at least absolutely not in her representation in the show.
I didn't say this.
I just said that her going dark was totally expected and in character as far as I saw it.
I didn't say that the show did this well, I didn't say the show demonstrated the change well.
there's going dark and murdering hundreds of thousands of innocents for no reason in particular, no even ignoring the show I don't see it. I highly doubt the books will end with this.
They kept saying a million people live in kings landing and it seemed pretty much annihilated. I bet most of the population died.
I have zero doubt that in the books cersei will not just get away with blowing up the sept of baelor like she did in the show scott free. I think at that point, (f)Aegon will have already started turning people against cersei and will control kings landing. So we will have dany finally showing up to see that the people have already rallied behind another targ that they love. So the whole "nobody in westeros loves me thing" will be the same except there will be someone who actually already has the support and admiration of the citizens of westeros. and she will feel like everything she wanted was stolen from her. Excluding young griff from the show and continuing to paint cersei as a final contender for the throne to me is one of the most massive changes to the story and we are seeing the repercussions of it.
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