ASOIAF/Game of Thrones Discussion V3: A Song Of Ice Cubes and Fire
339 replies, posted
They actually did it, the fucking madmen.
Remember Episode 1? Wear it like a shield and no one can use it to harm you.
that scene with drogon was actually a self-insert by d&d burning the iron throne (game of thrones) and fucking off elsewhere (star wars).
I feel like I got farted on but I don’t know how to feel about it yet
I've never seen an end of a series and left with such strong feeling of what was the point. Holy shit being canceled with a cliff hanger a few seasons back would have atleast left me wondering at what could have been. We need to weaponize this to daze and confuse our enemy's. Fuck D&d at starwars get them in some type of psyops program.
yeah if I had faith in the writers I would thing it's a callback to that or to "Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things" but I've learned to have zero faith in them remembering what they did an episode ago
The way i see it is that Bran is basically a lamer Dr Manhattan where he knows everything that's going to happen but can't actually do anything to change it, so he's just a fatalist that lets things happen just cuz they were going to anyways
I don't know if that makes it better or worse
Thoughts? Obviously massive spoilers.
Nash Scribblings | A Game of Slaves
The episode was hot garbage, but wouldn't Bran know that he/anyone can't change what will come to pass so that's why he's been quiet? that's all I can figure
When was that rule stated?
#NORTHXIT was pretty easy.
what the fuck does arya know about navigating, planning a voyage, running a ship, or any skill that might help at all on a boat? This is like, as dangerous a voyage as any that anybody has ever taken in the world and this random barely adult assassin with no sailing experience other than as a passenger twice is leading them?
also when grrm said he wanted the ending to be 'bittersweet like lotr" I don't think he meant that he was going to lift two scenes shot for shot from return of the king
While it wasn't as bad as I expected to be, I'm still conflicted whether I like it or not. Regardless though I think the highlight part of the ep for me was Drogon burning the Iron Throne to the ground.
Because the only reason why the Iron Throne exists is because the Targs had dragons to conquer Westeros. Over 300 years wars have been fought over that throne ex: Dance of the Dragons, Blackfyre Rebellions to the point it caused the Targs their downfall. And for what? For Dany to repeat history all over again and do the same thing? It's actually pretty fitting that Drogon gets to melt the thing down, with dragons and many people killed in the past because of it. Dragons forged the Throne and ultimately brings it down in the end. It's actually poetry done right despite people being used to "pottery".
The only thing missing from that ending is the dead Starks looking down on them from the skies.
Wow season 8 nosedived in quality
Those last bunch of episodes were absolutely trash with lots of contradictions and retconning because they fucking minced the story.
God what a shit way to end a long season, with a hasty rush of diarrhea.
thanks I hated it
what the fuck was up with the North just randomly deciding they deserved independence? multiple countries present at that meeting would have loved independence, especially after the shitshow the crown put them through. I actually saw the prince of dornes eyebrow raise at Sansas request and chuckled. I'm pretty sure it was a massive contrivance just to give Sansa a win.
One of the parts of the episode I actually liked was when Jon goes to confront Daenerys in the throne room and she recalls imagining as a child how massive and majestic the Iron Throne must be, and how the actual throne seems seems so small.
I saw someone on Reddit mention the concept of "beating swords into plowshares" and in a way the Iron Throne is an example of that concept - Aegon Targaryen conquered six of the seven kingdoms through a violent and bloody conflict, but when the war was over and won he quite literally broke down weapons of war and used them to establish the base of his own rule. One of the first things he did was establish the King's Peace to prevent further conflict within the realm, and subsequently he broke the Ironborn's independence, but raised them back up as another part of his realm.
The Iron Throne, the literal chair, is a symbol representing the destruction that was necessary to bind the Seven Kingdoms together. It's said that it's an uncomfortable throne, because Aegon believed that a King should never sit easy upon it. And the very first thing Dany remarks upon seeing the chair is that it's a lot smaller than she thought it would be - a pretty stark indicator of what her future intent as Queen was.
Alright, alright, alright.
Given that I never read leaks and I've long since made peace with the, shall we say, general narrative context of the last seasons, I wasn't hit with the shitshow that was this finale as hard as other people. That said, however, I've been reading your spoilers now and I must admit I totally glossed over some, ehrm, minor details that really give you an insight of the catastrophe.
I think you guys understood the episode far better than me, so I won't try to list all the narrative clusterfucks.
I really have to question the general pacing of this finale, however. Without needing to call in any spoiler whatsoever, this is a ten-years, eight seasons-long TV series finale and in the first 35 minutes or so basically jackshit happens. Then you get a somewhat sweet 10 middle minutes and then it's a 35 minutes-long WILD FUCKING RIDE, like some sort of FEVER DREAM ending that attempts (emphasis on "attempts") to tie everything up as best as it can.
Amist all the shit, I must say that the one scene I unquestionably enjoyed was Drogon melting down the Iron Throne, but only because I interpreted that scene as Drogon venting all its rage against the one and only responsable for Daenery's downfall: her obsession to sit on the Iron Throne no matter the cost.
Whelp, that's it boys. The TV series that was supposed to show (with the likes of Breaking Bad and The Sopranos) that serialized TV was capable of deep, mature and complex plots and convince the general public that the fantasy genre was far more than just (and I quote) "tits and dragons". Indeed.
I'd tell you guys to wait for the books at this point, but ... you know.
This has been the most hilarious series finale I've watched
I enjoyed that too. And we got this nifty meme out of it.
Well, I am enjoying the memes at least
In a vacuum, the last episode is fantastically directed and decently written. Problem is, it's not a vacuum, it's a very long running series. The end is out of touch with the rest, as if the writers forgot or didn't pay attention to the rest since the beginning.
The wheel isn't broken, Drogon did a decent job at destroying the iron throne but it changed exactly nothing. It was symbolic in the purest way possible and meant nothing concrete at all. It would have been a decent ending if the tone had been that it's an unavoidable cycle.
The big problem is that instead, the series pretends having all the cool characters in charge of it all means it's a happy end. That's not how it is, at all. They had nothing to do with the system and now they are in charge of it. This is all WRONG.
At least there was no Starchild.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/302829/33813502-26ef-442d-9e8f-463dbf252e56/image.png
the reveal that cersei and jaime could literally have moved five feet and would have been fine was absolutely hysterical
Isn't this contradicted in earlier seasons? He made Ned turn back and look after shouting "Father," then made a HUGE alteration by completely changing Hodor. Between that and his ability to warg, I feel he's more than capable of changing outcomes.
imo they should have just had all the kingdoms become independent and meet in that council to discuss large matters if they were going to let the north be independent. when aegon first conquered westeros dorne was independent for something like centuries before they finally joined the crown so why does this random unexplained new prince of dorne not say a single word at the entire meeting. just seems like they had to throw him there because he was mentioned earlier by varys
likewise im also annoyed that not a single person at that meeting mentioned the fact that jon was the rightful heir regardless of whether or not he actually wanted it. who was varys writing all those letters to? why didnt sansa say something considering how adamant about him being king she was before? there was plenty of time to say anything about that fact before they decided to spontaneously vote in a new king.
and finally one of the most ridiculous oversights has to be the fact that (and i know it's been mentioned a ton before but man does this one really piss me off) jon doesn't even need to be exiled considering no one else wanted punishment badly except for the unsullied really. they left the entire continent to sail incredibly far away and there is no need for a night's watch whatsoever so why the fuck doesn't he just get pardoned by sansa and do what he wants
So what about the should-have-been post-credits scene where Bran reveals that "there's a always a Night King" and it's implied Jon becomes it as he dies in the North?
If there's any truth to it, then it would have been awesome to go along with the conclusion that the wheel has not been broken and keeps turning, as a cycle. Jon's end should have been that he was lured by power like everyone else, killed Daenerys for it, but out of anger and self-pity decided to go North by himself, only to let his anger at the "wheel" that she wanted destroyed to overcome him and make him Night King. Thus he sets out to destroy the Seven Kingdoms out of spite, like the previous Night King.
This is the ending we deserved.
One additional line from Jon saying he'd be happier at the night's watch would have helped immensely. Why are people even cool with the unsullied anyway? It's clear they aren't apologetic for their part in all this and they clearly haven't realized Dany was in the wrong here. So they are inherently at odds with the rest of the cast and its just never addressed. The regular westerosi person would be fine with Jon killing dany and grateful for it. There's no reason that they should go along with anything the unsullied wanted.
That doesn't contradict it. Hodor was damaged from the warging before Bran even developed his powers, ergo it's running on stable time loop rules where anything Bran does to try and affect the past during his visions or whatever they are, is something he already did and we're already seeing the consequences of.
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