Marvel Cinematic Universe Thread - Dr. Strangelove - Film, Television and Music

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51951542]Not at all. How can someone trust the opinions of people who are stark raving mad about a white character being white in an adaptation? After Jessica Jones I don't think I see any way for this to be objectively bad[/QUOTE] Do you think Jessica Jones was bad?

[QUOTE=RockyTV;51952329]Do you think Jessica Jones was bad?[/QUOTE] Jessica Jones lost me after the house.

My main worry I see from most non-raving reviews is what they say about the fight scenes(slow, rehearsed looking, worse than DD and Finn can't fight to save shit so stunt doubles are obvious) and generic "save my company" bullshit which Iron Fist is only ever about for about 5 pages at a time.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51951542]Not at all. How can someone trust the opinions of people who are stark raving mad about a white character being white in an adaptation? After Jessica Jones I don't think I see any way for this to be objectively bad[/QUOTE] Uhhh... It can be bad because the of the writing/direction. Just because it has 'Marvel' on it, it doesn't mean it's instantly going to be the best TV show ever made. Lots of reviews are saying it's bad for reasons other than Danny being white, which is only a sentence at the start of most of them. It would be stupid to ignore legitimate criticism.

[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;51952805]Uhhh... It can be bad because the of the writing/direction. Just because it has 'Marvel' on it, it doesn't mean it's instantly going to be the best TV show ever made. Lots of reviews are saying it's bad for reasons other than Danny being white, which is only a sentence at the start of most of them. It would be stupid to ignore legitimate criticism.[/QUOTE] What [I]are[/I] the other reasons reviews are saying it's bad, exactly? Because really all I've seen is complaints about a white comic book character being white in his tv show.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51953456]What [I]are[/I] the other reasons reviews are saying it's bad, exactly? Because really all I've seen is complaints about a white comic book character being white in his tv show.[/QUOTE] Boring and bland story is the main one.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51953456]What [I]are[/I] the other reasons reviews are saying it's bad, exactly? Because really all I've seen is complaints about a white comic book character being white in his tv show.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Takuat;51952599]My main worry I see from most non-raving reviews is what they say about the fight scenes(slow, rehearsed looking, worse than DD and Finn can't fight to save shit so stunt doubles are obvious) and generic "save my company" bullshit which Iron Fist is only ever about for about 5 pages at a time.[/QUOTE]

Bit of an unhealthy mentality to dismiss all legitimate criticism just because a bunch of people are also making dumb complaints that have nothing to do with the show's quality. You wouldn't want to do that and then be let down harder if the show is mediocre.

[QUOTE=redBadger;51953502]Boring and bland story is the main one.[/QUOTE] Really can't be any worse than Luke Cage's story, can it?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51953691]Really can't be any worse than Luke Cage's story, can it?[/QUOTE] Hey now, most of it was very good. Up until [sp]Diamondback[/sp] at least.

[QUOTE=Killjoy;51953770]Hey now, most of it was very good. Up until [sp]Diamondback[/sp] at least.[/QUOTE] Nah, [sp]Cottonmouth dying[/sp] was the tipping point.

[QUOTE=redBadger;51953502]Boring and bland story is the main one.[/QUOTE] I heard that Iron Fist was a bad casting choice and that the fighting choreography is awful too.

[QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;51945947][sp]It's actually quite sad in context[/sp][/QUOTE] Oh I know that, I just meant that the situational irony of "was he saying fuck during *scene where he screams fuck 57 times*?" tickled me something fierce. [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51946320]i loved it. fuck happy endings. this is a proper, mature send off to the characters[/QUOTE] Honestly, the way I see it, it was a happy ending. [sp]Logan earns his rest after a life of nothing but senseless violence spanning centuries. He was the best he was at what he did, but what he did wasn't very nice; in his last moments, he saved the day. He was a real superhero up to the very end. Charles was just as tragic, but he died ferrying Laura to safety; his role in helping her and the rest of the new mutants was a sort of penance for his accident that killed the X-Men. He had the most perfect evening he'd had in years and then his time was up. Really, he died the way Professor X would have wanted to die; defending innocent young people who were born different. He didn't waste away into senility on a boat. He did something that mattered. Forgive the pun, but he died standing up.[/sp] [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Takuat;51948879]Gunn kinda explained his role in the Guardians "family" which I thought was interesting and hasn't really been shown in the trailers since he's mostly been a joke magnet. Thematic spoilers as opposed to plot spoilers [Sp]He treats Mantis like a surrogate daughter in place of his dead daughter which I'm sure wI'll lead to a few more serious scenes than we've seen. [/sp] Also I feel like half his jokes in the trailers won't be in the final cut, [b]I think Gunn just loves having Bautista fuck about[/b][/QUOTE] This is pretty much confirmed. He's the most stoked out of everyone to be doing a Marvel movie and Gunn already confirmed stuff like the soup-slurping isn't in the final cut. I'm willing to bet they did a few dozen takes, allowed for ad-libbing and goofing around so everyone could get comfortable, then put the silly but inconsequential stuff in the trailers while the movie has all the meat and potatoes. [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=cyclocius;51954443]I heard that Iron Fist was a bad casting choice and that the fighting choreography is awful too.[/QUOTE] How in the fuck do you fuck up fight choreography with Iron fucking Fist. That's like making a Green Lantern movie where everything is fucking purple, it don't make no damn sense.

Is there a reason we're spoiler tagging Luke Cage?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51955261]Is there a reason we're spoiler tagging Luke Cage?[/QUOTE] Presumably not everyone has seen it.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;51955268]Presumably not everyone has seen it.[/QUOTE] It's been out for some time now, though.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51955407]It's been out for some time now, though.[/QUOTE] Not everyone has seen it though.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51955407]It's been out for some time now, though.[/QUOTE] It's been out for less than 6 months.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51955407]It's been out for some time now, though.[/QUOTE] Not everyone has seen it and it isn't hard to click spoilers.

[QUOTE=RockyTV;51952329]Do you think Jessica Jones was bad?[/QUOTE] at exactly which point did I imply that [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] none of the netflix marvel collabs have been bad so I'm pretty skeptical especially when they specifically mention one of the most asinine criticisms I've ever seen as a legitimate point. It's not like I listened to them about the other three shows anyhow [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] I don't really see a problem with thinking a racist comment discredits an entire review. If you read a review complaining about Luke Cage being black as a point, would you not throw the entirety of that review in the trash? How could I trust that kind of bias to not effect their entire opinion of the show? It'd be different if Iron Fist [i]was[/i] an Asian character and they complained that he's white I'd get it, but since that's not the case it's just crazy.

There's a difference between ignoring dumb reviews and saying [QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51951542]I don't think I see any way for this to be objectively bad[/QUOTE] Like, maybe I'm misunderstanding but it sounds like you're saying that you can't comprehend that a show might not be good, based purely on the fact that some of the negative reviews said something dumb..? So I went ahead and read the first four reviews on rotten tomatoes, because I hadn't read any of them and didn't want to jump into a discussion about something I didn't know anything about, and start talking about reviews that I hadn't read. Because that would be really, really dumb. Bear in mind that marvel only gave the reviewers the first six episodes, but that's still around six hours of content. [URL="https://filmink.com.au/reviews/marvels-iron-fist/"]Review number one[/URL] says that compared to the other three Netflix shows, Iron Fist is kinda bland. All the fights, bar one or two, are underwhelming, the core story thread isn't engaging, and there's an overall feeling that it's one big missed opportunity. It briefly mentions that reimagining the main character as Asian American [I]could've[/I] added an interesting angle to the story. Note that it [B]isn't saying it's bad because the main character isn't Asian-American[/B], it's saying that it's entirely possible that adding that element [I]could have[/I] added something to make the whole thing more interesting. It's entirely possible. Just an idea. Nothing else. [URL="http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1633179/iron-fist-review-netflixs-newest-superhero-show-is-a-low-point-for-marvel"]Review two[/URL] says that the show severely lacks elements that were present in the other three shows - the characters are boring, the cinematography and editing are bland and uninteresting, that K'un-Lun is underused and that the best thing about the show is basically that "it can only get better". No mention of race at all. [URL="http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-iron-fist-tv-series-is-the-marvel-and-netlfixs-firs-1793093781"]Review three[/URL] says that the fights are boring, the story focuses too much on boardroom meetings than action, and that it features "a mild dash of poorly-handled representation of Asian cultures". It says that the female characters are pretty good, at least. Finally, it mentions that the whole "white guy is way better at martial arts than all the asian characters around him" thing comes up a lot, is poorly executed, with no subtlety whatsoever. So I guess you're gonna ignore this one. Damn! Finally, [URL="https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/marvel-netflix-iron-fist-review/"]Review four[/URL] brings up what the other three reviews mentioned: it feels like Iron Fist is completely missing a soul, a hook, a theme, [I]something[/I] that sets it apart from the other Defenders series and makes it more than just "a sorta-gritty superhero drama". It also mentions that Finn Jones is visibly new to martial arts, which is a bad sign; that the bad guys are nowhere near the level of characters like Wilson Fisk; and that there are a metric fuckton of boring boardroom meeting scenes. Oh, but it also mentions that the story is written in a way that basically portrays Danny as an awkward white-savior character amongst a variety of Asian characters, so I guess you've got to dismiss this one too. Damn, two out of four. Oh well! It's not like the four reviews all share similar, very specific criticisms or anything. Guess there really isn't any way that the show could turn out to be objectively bad. I am being sarcastic, here.

way to take quotes completely out of context quote's not even related to what you're responding to [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] also you grabbed reviews that aren't even what we're talking about by your own admission, two of those don't even touch on race edit: actually I just looked through them myself and 3 of 4 do, where'd you get 2 out of 4? Did the last guy rate it that? I think it's funny that the only one that doesn't is cinemablend. I guess even some clickbait sites have higher standards than using race controversy.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51956540]way to take quotes completely out of context quote's not even related to what you're responding to[/QUOTE] Are you dumb lol, it clearly is [quote][QUOTE=SFC003;51951526]Anyone else worried about Iron Fist? I know the reviews are bad because of controversy mainly, but I'm not sure.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51951542]Not at all. How can someone trust the opinions of people who are stark raving mad about a white character being white in an adaptation? After Jessica Jones I don't think I see any way for this to be objectively bad[/QUOTE][/quote] They were the first four reviews I came across on rotten tomatoes. Of the four, two of them even [I]touch[/I] on race. Of the four, all of them say that the show is bad. Of the four, all of them give exactly the same reasons as to why the show is bad. That's the point I'm trying to [I]make[/I]. There are reviews of the show that say it's bad, that don't touch on race. [QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51956540]also you grabbed reviews that aren't even what we're talking about by your own admission, two of those don't even touch on race[/QUOTE] Yeah, [I]that's the point. [/I]You said that the reviews could be dismissed because they were entirely focused on the whole race thing, and that you were convinced the show was going to be good because of that. These reviews say the show is shite, and don't cite racial themes as being a major part of their reasoning for it. Please point out where I'm going wrong here. [QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51956540]actually I just looked through them myself and 3 of 4 do, where'd you get 2 out of 4? Did the last guy rate it that?[/QUOTE] Reviews three and four say that parts of the show are a little offensive. Review one mentions race in passing, literally not saying it's a problem but saying that it was an open opportunity for something more interesting to be added to the show, and review two doesn't mention race at all. Hence two of the four cite White Guy Is White as being bad. Did you actually read them or did you just skim them until you saw the word "Asian"?

three of them. [quote]The clear treasure of Iron Fist so far, however, is Jessica Henwick’s Colleen Wing—Danny’s future partner in his mission to take out the Hand—even when the series consistently trips her up to remind us that Danny is a Very Special White Male Protagonist.[/quote] [quote]But Colleen’s brilliance also shines a light on the show’s troubling portrayal of Asian-inspired cultures through the lens of its white protagonist[/quote] [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] also gotta love the personal attacks, me saying that everything so far has been pretty good despite expectations has nothing to do with some reviews bringing up racial points? I don't even know why you're so concerned that I'm not shaking in my boots over some poor screener reviews?

Damn! You're right! It [I]was[/I] three after all! You've beaten me, guess the show is definitely going to be good now because those "stark raving mad" reviewers have a massive hate-boner for shows with white protagonists! Christ dude, you're actually mental if you think it's worth ignoring entire reviews because of those quotes. "The show keeps going out of its way to devalue Colleen's abilities in order to point out that Danny is better than her" and "Colleen's inclusion just shows how weird it is to have a white guy representing Asian cultures" are not "omg racist against white ppl" criticisms like you've been crying about for the last few pages lol

I ignore reviews regardless most of the time, especially ones with silly agendas like "this character shouldve been another race" [editline]13th March 2017[/editline] But I mean I guess to hell with me for answering the guy asking if he should be worried about the controversy Take me to the ward, for I don't base my opinions on what the 'zines tell me

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;51956756]Damn! You're right! It [I]was[/I] three after all! You've beaten me, guess the show is definitely going to be good now because those "stark raving mad" reviewers have a massive hate-boner for shows with white protagonists! Christ dude, you're actually mental if you think it's worth ignoring entire reviews because of those quotes. "The show keeps going out of its way to devalue Colleen's abilities in order to point out that Danny is better than her" and "Colleen's inclusion just shows how weird it is to have a white guy representing Asian cultures" are not "omg racist against white ppl" criticisms like you've been crying about for the last few pages lol[/QUOTE] Or he's suggesting that perhaps certain reviewers have a clear bias and cant be trusted?

I was reading about Stan Lee being pulled from a NYCC spot due to "health concerns" and people were suggesting having him digitally scanned and doing voice capture akin to text to speech practices so he could be the [i]immortal[/i] king of cameos. Any thoughts on this? I personally think it'd be awesome, even though I'd rather just pretend he's already immortal and let it literally crush me when it happens

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51956997]I was reading about Stan Lee being pulled from a NYCC spot due to "health concerns" and people were suggesting having him digitally scanned and doing voice capture akin to text to speech practices so he could be the [i]immortal[/i] king of cameos. Any thoughts on this? I personally think it'd be awesome, even though I'd rather just pretend he's already immortal and let it literally crush me when it happens[/QUOTE] With the sheer archive of videos he has, including movie and TV stuff he's shot, you absolutely could use ILM's mousesorcery and Adobes Voco to keep him fictionally immortal forever.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51956997]I was reading about Stan Lee being pulled from a NYCC spot due to "health concerns" and people were suggesting having him digitally scanned and doing voice capture akin to text to speech practices so he could be the [i]immortal[/i] king of cameos. Any thoughts on this? I personally think it'd be awesome, even though I'd rather just pretend he's already immortal and let it literally crush me when it happens[/QUOTE] I dunno. something feels off when it's not actually the person you're looking at screen for me