The Doctor Who Spoilers and Speculation Thread V2 - The End of an Era (The Moff Falls) - Film, Television and Music

[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;52422423]1) then why didnt it do that in the Doctor's office? I'm sorry but this one is obviously just a massive fuck up. Moffat ignored the rules he set himself for a nice moment. 2) Nardole says it to the Doctor in real life, not Bill. 3) ok i will concede this point[/QUOTE] 1) Bill opened the door for it, she doesn't have a key because of the whole Cyberman thing but The Doctor does, also it didn't seem like it had as much control over things as it did in this episode, perhaps in the first episode it was just getting used to it's new pilot. 2) Presumably Nardole watched the recording, the entire episode was the recording, not just the short ending with The Doctor, or yeah like Freeze said perhaps he actually did say that at some point in reality again.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXCCDDy9Tms[/media] Is he acting out the "sneeze" at 0:15? :v: :v: I think I actually liked a Doctor Who finale again, guys.

[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;52422423]1) then why didnt it do that in the Doctor's office? I'm sorry but this one is obviously just a massive fuck up. Moffat ignored the rules he set himself for a nice moment. 2) Nardole says it to the Doctor in real life, not Bill. 3) ok i will concede this point[/QUOTE]1) If Bill had no idea the TARDIS was bigger on the inside how would the puddle? It probably had no idea they were gonna escape so didn't bother rushing in when the door was open and obviously it couldn't get in once closed. 2) Why couldn't Nardole have said it twice to different people?

[QUOTE=Grizz;52421994]I don't see the former not happening at this point. But 12 would probably be there too. Above and beyond the Mondasian Cybermen, it's THE thing Capaldi has wanted... and there's already an in-universe excuse for Carole Ann Ford to be in it and look older... and that's if they don't just say it's in her later life. They've recast the First Doctor for this... they have the opportunity to bring back to the original companion and do what I find hard to believe The Doctor has never done on screen... go back to his Granddaughter. Moffat's surely, surely, surely going to do it... right? What a fucking parting gift it would be.[/QUOTE] There was [url=http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-05-06/is-the-doctors-granddaughter-susan-returning-to-doctor-who]an article about that in May[/url] speculating on the question. At the time, Carole's agent say they hadn't been approached, but it was noted that Claudia Grant (who played Carole in Adventure in Space and Time) had a gap in her schedule following the end of her Cursed Child performances that might make her available. Make of that what you will.

[QUOTE=jonu67;52422443]1) Bill opened the door for it, she doesn't have a key because of the whole Cyberman thing but The Doctor does, also it didn't seem like it had as much control over things as it did in this episode, perhaps in the first episode it was just getting used to it's new pilot. 2) Presumably Nardole watched the recording, the entire episode was the recording, not just the short ending with The Doctor, or yeah like Freeze said perhaps he actually did say that at some point in reality again.[/QUOTE] If you have to dance around plot holes like this, you should probably start considering that the writing isn't all that solid, no matter how much you want it to be. I mean, "How can you fly the TARDIS? I'm the Pilot, I can fly anything" that is SO fucking lazy

[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;52422623]I mean, "How can you fly the TARDIS? I'm the Pilot, I can fly anything" that is SO fucking lazy[/QUOTE] It's a weird super advanced time traveling and intelligent alien space ship, I'd hardly say assuming it can utilize the TARDIS is lazy. If the Doctor can teach Nardole how to do it, then the thing that time travels regularly must have an inkling on how to pilot a time machine. [QUOTE=ElectronicG19;52422623]If you have to dance around plot holes like this[/QUOTE] Not really a plot hole though, a plot hole can't be solved.

[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;52422623]If you have to dance around plot holes like this, you should probably start considering that the writing isn't all that solid, no matter how much you want it to be. I mean, "How can you fly the TARDIS? I'm the Pilot, I can fly anything" that is SO fucking lazy[/QUOTE]genuinely none of the things you mentioned before I felt were contrived the pilot flying the TARDIS tho? i'll agree with you on that, i felt that was a bit weird.

i thought it was pretty darn good also [quote]MASTER Is the future gonna be ALL girl? DOCTOR We can only hope.[/quote] Female Doctor 300% C O N F I R M E D for absolute certain mark my damn words (do not mark them) [sp]okay it's probably just moffat hinting through the script that he wants to see a female doctor in the next series but still my hopes are pretty fuckin' hiiiigh[/sp]

I'm still shaking at the ending [sp] I am glad David Bradley is going to be The First Doctor, it's extremely fitting with how well he portrayed him in An Adventure in Space & Time[/sp]

My TV still has parental controls from years ago so it detected that Orphan Black was about to be on. It cut to black and asked me for my passcode right before the episode ended. I am [I]seething[/I].

[QUOTE=mcgrath618;52423078]My TV still has parental controls from years ago so it detected that Orphan Black was about to be on. It cut to black and asked me for my passcode right before the episode ended. I am [I]seething[/I].[/QUOTE]As I said, it seems literally the entirety of BBC Scotland had no audio for the last minutes of the episode (just as the Doctor is about to wake up). So many people had the ending ruined for them by that. Such a shame. (but also not the end of the world)

John Simm was fantastic, a real shame he was pretty underused in the episode.

Doctor Who - 3.75m (25.3%) Pitch Battle - 1.69m ( 11.3%) PB could be as low as it goes for the BBC. What an outstanding 90 minute flop. Poor that the respect Who had seemingly reclaimed earlier in the series was swept aside for that. Shame DW couldn't climb back to 4m, too. Have we now seen the last of the 2005- Saturday night format? Time for something completely different or just hope for the best under a new showrunner & Doctor? Interesting times ahead.

I am so glad that we finally got a Moffat two parter that doesn't collapse 7/8ths of the way into the second episode. It's just a shame that it has to be the last one when he did it. It was a really good episode and [sp]I'm so glad that it didn't end with 'love conquers all' yet again.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Grizz;52423729]Doctor Who - 3.75m (25.3%) Pitch Battle - 1.69m ( 11.3%) PB could be as low as it goes for the BBC. What an outstanding 90 minute flop. Poor that the respect Who had seemingly reclaimed earlier in the series was swept aside for that. Shame DW couldn't climb back to 4m, too. Have we now seen the last of the 2005- Saturday night format? Time for something completely different or just hope for the best under a new showrunner & Doctor? Interesting times ahead.[/QUOTE] They need to put it on at a consistent time. When they kept moving the start time of the episodes, I stopped watching it live because it became a hassle.

Not sure if it's common knowledge at this point but Steven Moffat just confirmed on Whovians that he's done and he'll never write another Doctor Who episode again, ever. Not just in a show running sense, but in any episodes in the future ever again.

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;52423844]Not sure if it's common knowledge at this point but Steven Moffat just confirmed on Whovians that he's done and he'll never write another Doctor Who episode again, ever. Not just in a show running sense, but in any episodes in the future ever again.[/QUOTE] Which is a shame because he wrote some great fucking episodes as just a writer and not the showrunner, he just wasn't very good as the showrunner and having a hand in almost every episode, as long as he's not in complete creative control over the entirety of the story he can pump out some great content ala Blink or The Empty Child. [editline]edit[/editline] Like, yeah I want him gone most certainly, he almost ruined Doctor Who for me but he can write good stuff, just take creative control away from him, let him write one off episodes again, It's like how I'd want RTD to come back and write a few one off episodes, but he probably won't, shame really.

He has wrote some amazing episodes in his time as a Showrunner The 11th Hour; The Pandorica opens/ The Big bang; A Christmas Carol; The Impossible Astronaut/ Day of the Moon; The Name of the Doctor; The Day of the Doctor; Listen; Dark water; Heaven sent; Extremis and World enough and time. Just to name some Then we got episodes like The Beast Below; The Doctor, The Widow and the wardrobe; Last 40 minutes of Hell Bent and The Return of Doctor Mysterio.

I just remembered that we never heard what Clara said to the Doctor in Hell Bent, so get ready to see her again in the Christmas special.

[QUOTE=TomatoGuy;52424000]The Return of Doctor Mysterio.[/QUOTE] You wanna fgt mate. [editline]edit[/editline] [QUOTE=TomatoGuy;52424000]He has wrote some amazing episodes in his time as a Showrunner The 11th Hour; The Pandorica opens/ The Big bang; A Christmas Carol; The Impossible Astronaut/ Day of the Moon; The Name of the Doctor; The Day of the Doctor; Listen; Dark water; Heaven sent; Extremis and World enough and time. Just to name some[/QUOTE] The point is, he's better as a writer than a showrunner, let him write episodes, but don't let him have complete control over the entirety of the seasons story, sure he still wrote some great episodes while in charge, but the seasons themselves suffered under his care and the stories got worse and worse and not just the stories but the finales as well, he could write a fantastic first parter but always failed to finish it off effectively, if not for this season actually turning out to be fantastic I would have given up on Doctor Who until Chris Chibnall came in.

[video=youtube;FsvOVfJpcao]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsvOVfJpcao[/video]

Unpopular opinion: I really couldn't stand Nardole or Bill. They're the reason I stopped watching this series and waited for the finale. I can't place what it is, I just don't like their characters at all. About the finale though, it was pretty great. [sp]A shame we probably won't get more Simm-Master though. I really liked him.[/sp] I think my favorite scene by far, and I actually want to say it's my favorite scene since the reboot in general, was between [sp]The Master, Missy and The Doctor as he pleads for them to be on his side.[/sp] The absence of music, the cold colors and just all of their collective chemistry made it a REALLY emotional and great scene and I feel like it was the most "genuine" these characters have been together and to eachother. I feel like their individual acting talents really shined there.

[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;52422623]If you have to dance around plot holes like this, you should probably start considering that the writing isn't all that solid, no matter how much you want it to be. I mean, "How can you fly the TARDIS? I'm the Pilot, I can fly anything" that is SO fucking lazy[/QUOTE] If you have to complain ONCE AGAIN about plot holes in a show about a time travelling alien with a magic box which you have on several occasions made quite clear don't enjoy watching because of the writing, you either need to stop watching it or stop complaining about something you're not forced to watch in any capacity. It's like you're forcing yourself to watch and find flaws. [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] I come into this thread because I enjoy the show like many others, and I know it has its flaws. But to see you complain year after year that there's plot holes in a show which literally had plot holes bleeding out of its universe at one point is bafflingly stupid. [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] No show has perfect writing. And given some episodes, Doctor Who is no where near any form of perfection. But give it a break on the pessimism for a year perhaps?

[QUOTE=TheCactusman;52424252]If you have to complain ONCE AGAIN about plot holes in a show about a time travelling alien with a magic box which you have on several occasions made quite clear don't enjoy watching because of the wtiting, you either need to stop watching it or stop complaining about something you're not forced to watch in any capacity. It's like you're forcing yourself to watch and find flaws. [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] I come into this thread because I enjoy the show like many others, and I know it has its flaws. But to see you complain year after year that there's plot holes in a show which literally had plot holes bleeding out of its universe at one point is bafflingly stupid. [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] No show has perfect writing. And given some episodes, Doctor Who is no where near any form of perfection. But give it a break on the pessimism for a year perhaps?[/QUOTE] plot holes because a show has been going on for ages is forgivable sure, but a plot hole like that in the course of one season is a bit lazy

[QUOTE=Marzipas;52424273]plot holes because a show has been going on for ages is forgivable sure, but a plot hole like that in the course of one season is a bit lazy[/QUOTE] The TARDIS once became humanoid and called itself sexy. I'm pretty sure it'd let Bill in once the Pilot was no longer a threat.

[video]https://youtu.be/Lr8v-AxE5tQ[/video]

You know, the only thing that really bugs me about The Pilot Alien Oil Time Machine is that... It is just as if not on par with the TARDIS in a lot of ways, I mean it's functionally godlike, if it can go wherever in space and time it so pleases and has complete control over the atomic level, so much so that it's almost instant when it does it, yet we don't know anything about it, other that what we know from it's introduction episode. We don't know how it ended up on Earth or why, we don't know who made it, we don't know where it came from, it's an enigma that's probably never going to be explained because Moffat is leaving and that really bothers me.

ive had a night to think about it and aside [sp]from the scenes where bill flips back and forth between being a cyberman and some pretty nice acting, it was quite an arse of a finale. not Hell Bent tier "destroy this film" levels of arse but it was pretty weak on giving us decisive endings, and missy was utterly wasted. one of the most interestingly complex and in-depth characters of the past like, four seasons and she was just pissed into the gutter for the sakes of making Simm seem more of a bastard than he already was. apparently killing 1/10th of the human population doesn't make him enough of a cockend so we have to have him kill off michelle gomez[/sp] also it's really dark when you consider [sp]that nardole is now left in charge of a bunch of humans who are probably mostly unarmed and about to face an entire fucking army of cybermen. they're all so fucked.[/sp] [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Pokepunch;52424295][video]https://youtu.be/Lr8v-AxE5tQ[/video][/QUOTE] holy shit that ending slayed me

Can't wait for the Books/ Big Finish audios telling the Story of Nardole and the Farmers Vs the Cybermen

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;52424727]anyone else getting goosebumps when[sp]david bradley quoted the whole "you may be a doctor" thing.[/sp][/QUOTE] I don't remember this quote in classic who. I can only remember the 4th Doctor saying "You may be a doctor but I'm THE Doctor, the definite article you might say" and First (Hurndall) saying "I'm the Doctor, the original you might say"