The Doctor Who Spoilers and Speculation Thread V2 - The End of an Era (The Moff Falls) - Film, Television and Music

What if the next Doctor will be [sp]Stephen Mangan? I recall him saying that he'd love the role. He looks like a good fit.[/sp]

[QUOTE=TheCactusman;52424252]If you have to complain ONCE AGAIN about plot holes in a show about a time travelling alien with a magic box which you have on several occasions made quite clear don't enjoy watching because of the writing, you either need to stop watching it or stop complaining about something you're not forced to watch in any capacity. It's like you're forcing yourself to watch and find flaws. [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] I come into this thread because I enjoy the show like many others, and I know it has its flaws. But to see you complain year after year that there's plot holes in a show which literally had plot holes bleeding out of its universe at one point is bafflingly stupid. [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] No show has perfect writing. And given some episodes, Doctor Who is no where near any form of perfection. But give it a break on the pessimism for a year perhaps?[/QUOTE] ok but those are the rules the show set itself - i understand the concept of fiction, cheers mate. it's when it starts contradicting itself and becomes stupid is when i complain. so are you telling me i cant criticise the show because the concept itself is fantastic? thats stupid. disclaimer: I liked the episode a lot, maybe even loved it. It doesn't mean parts of it aren't fucking stupid.

Overall pretty happy with the episode. I wish we'd get a Simm regeneration scene though, but instead of regenerating to Missy, we get someone completely unexpected and new, who would then be the next Master.

the real plot twist would have been if missy regenerated into derek jacobi

[QUOTE=Treznor;52425290]Overall pretty happy with the episode. I wish we'd get a Simm regeneration scene though, but instead of regenerating to Missy, we get someone completely unexpected and new, who would then be the next Master.[/QUOTE] Well It really leaves the door open for the Master to return A bit like how we never really saw Davros die in Journey's End So now we can get another Master appear in between them

[QUOTE=TomatoGuy;52425402]Well It really leaves the door open for the Master to return A bit like how we never really saw Davros die in Journey's End So now we can get another Master appear in between them[/QUOTE] That's very true. I liked seeing John Barrowman "on-screen" again, if you can call it that. I miss him. Also, just realized this is the first season in new-Who without a Dalek-exclusive episode, if Im not completely mistaken?

[QUOTE=Treznor;52425420]Also, just realized this is the first season in new-Who without a Dalek-exclusive episode, if Im not completely mistaken?[/QUOTE] I believe Series 6 didn't have one either. Only a brief appearance in The Wedding of River Song.

It never ceases to amaze me how badly Doctor Who is forced to do spaceships. Open fields. City streets. Museums. RAF bases. A Coal Exchange. It all works marvellously and I love it.

[QUOTE=Marzipas;52425316]the real plot twist would have been if missy regenerated into derek jacobi[/QUOTE] i think if that happened my head would've fucking burst. that's typical Moffat too. [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Treznor;52425420] Also, just realized this is the first season in new-Who without a Dalek-exclusive episode, if Im not completely mistaken?[/QUOTE] good fucking riddance imo. i used to like the daleks but bollocks almighty they're overused now. the whole "THEY ARE THE WORST THING EVER CREATED" angle no longer really works when we've had Missy breakdance in a circle of them screaming impotently, along with Davros getting eaten by dalek poo. i know i seem edgy b/c i keep banging on about this kind of thing but to take this shit seriously we need an episode like Dalek where the Daleks just smoke the fuck out of a shitload of fools, possibly even named (not necessarily long-running/recurring) characters. Dalek was great for punching you in the stomach with the sheer danger of even a single Dalek, and then they pissed that through a binbag. [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] ive had issue with a lot of the recent Who episodes because of just callous death of innocents for no real reason that the Doctor just doesnt even give a shit about at the hands of one-off monsters that end up being Good All Along Just Scared, meanwhile the daleks are left in vacuum scenarios where the only people they could kill are the Diddly Doctor and his companion, both of whom we [b]know[/b] have plot armor unless it's a finale and the actor's not been renewed.

[QUOTE=Pissfuck;52425577]i think if that happened my head would've fucking burst. that's typical Moffat too. [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] good fucking riddance imo. i used to like the daleks but bollocks almighty they're overused now. the whole "THEY ARE THE WORST THING EVER CREATED" angle no longer really works when we've had Missy breakdance in a circle of them screaming impotently, along with Davros getting eaten by dalek poo. i know i seem edgy b/c i keep banging on about this kind of thing but to take this shit seriously we need an episode like Dalek where the Daleks just smoke the fuck out of a shitload of fools, possibly even named (not necessarily long-running/recurring) characters. Dalek was great for punching you in the stomach with the sheer danger of even a single Dalek, and then they pissed that through a binbag. [editline]2nd July 2017[/editline] ive had issue with a lot of the recent Who episodes because of just callous death of innocents for no real reason that the Doctor just doesnt even give a shit about at the hands of one-off monsters that end up being Good All Along Just Scared, meanwhile the daleks are left in vacuum scenarios where the only people they could kill are the Diddly Doctor and his companion, both of whom we [b]know[/b] have plot armor unless it's a finale and the actor's not been renewed.[/QUOTE] I agree about the Daleks, horribly misused the last seasons. I hope Chibnall can bring some fear and terror back to them.

I'm amazed how well Bill being gay was handled in the series, it's not like how it was handled in Class

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;52425675]I'm amazed how well Bill being gay was handled in the series, it's not like how it was handled in Class[/QUOTE] You [I]could[/I] say it was handled with [I]class[/I]. [editline]edit[/editline] Also bit confusing when I first watched it, but why did Bill mention she is usually into women and people her own age to The Doctor in the finale when he asked if they had anything to say and to say it now? Did she develop a bit of a crush or something.

[QUOTE=jonu67;52426074]Also bit confusing when I first watched it, but why did Bill mention she is usually into women and people her own age to The Doctor in the finale when he asked if they had anything to say and to say it now? Did she develop a bit of a crush or something.[/QUOTE] she was making a joke the "usually" makes the audience think "oh god no she's making an exception for the doctor, because she likes him, not this shit again", which turns out to be a misdirection when she says "glad you knew that" in-universe she knows the doctor well enough to know that HE knows HER well enough that he would be super confused when she hinted that she might like him, so she makes a joke that makes him uncomfortable for a second but then ends with a cute reaffirmation of what he knows about her, which also doubles up as reinforcing the fact that she is human and not a cyberman. like it's a super human moment, her teasing him n that outside of that, it's lampshading the fact that companions keep crushing on the doctor and it's getting fuckin' tiresome, and makes a joke out of that but yeah tl;dr, it was a joke

imagine that scene except, from the doctor's point of view, it's a cyberman making that joke :v:

the one thing i kept thinking about is how bill speaks [I]way[/I] quicker than any of those cybermen are capable of speaking, and other characters would respond to her as soon as human-her would finish, so if she was a cyberman the things she'd be saying would take way longer to say and therefore other characters would say their lines before cyberbill would have a chance to finish them, so like, what the fuck

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52426386]the one thing i kept thinking about is how bill speaks [I]way[/I] quicker than any of those cybermen are capable of speaking, and other characters would respond to her as soon as human-her would finish, so if she was a cyberman the things she'd be saying would take way longer to say and therefore other characters would say their lines before cyberbill would have a chance to finish them, so like, what the fuck[/QUOTE] I was thinking the same, but with her movement. Like why is she moving so fluidly and not all stiff robotic movements lmao

Also just realised that the shot of CyberBill holding the Doctor in her arms is a very pointed reversal of this trope: [t]http://krui.fm/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/MV5BOTFiMzExYjktODgyMy00YmFjLTliNzUtZGYxNzlmYWE2OGViXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMDI2NDg0NQ@@._V1_SY1000_CR0012891000_AL_-960x540.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;52425675]I'm amazed how well Bill being gay was handled in the series, it's not like how it was handled in Class[/QUOTE] I think it was better in Class. Here, every episode Bill is like "Hey ! I'm gay" or "Sorry I only like girls" mostly for no reason at all, just like in episode 12. We understood she was gay with the first episode. No need to say it again and again

The Mirror has stated that [sp]Clara[/sp] will appear in a scene at Christmas, and that [sp]Bill and Nardole will appear in some form (the former we knew ofc) but Doctor Falls was their goodbye[/sp]. Additionally that Chibnall IS going ahead with a writers room, bringing all of the new scriptwriters together to collaborate on the series.

Regarding the future of either Simm or Gomez playing The Master again: [sp] Show me a Master story where the character hasn't been permanently killed or indefinitely improsoned only to return later played by the same actor with a weak and sometimes non existent explanation. There's not too many. Every incarnation of the character has at some point been killed without regeneration only for the character to return. The only on screen regeneration we've had is Jacobi to Simm. Heck even Simm and Missy have both been "killed for good" before. There's every chance we could see them again. Also if we knew who was playing the next Master wouldn't that make it impossible for the character to hide their identity from the audience? Which is something every Master has done again.[/sp]

I'd love for him to be a cCompanion for a bit and then just be like "Ha! I'm the Master, you fool, I've been sabotaging you this entire time!" Something cheeky like that would be great.

Dark Water 7.34m Heaven Sent: 6.19m World Enough and Time 5.0m [I]...and not a moment too soon etc etc[/I]

[QUOTE=Dan2593;52427753]Regarding the future of either Simm or Gomez playing The Master again: [sp] Show me a Master story where the character hasn't been permanently killed or indefinitely improsoned only to return later played by the same actor with a weak and sometimes non existent explanation. There's not too many. Every incarnation of the character has at some point been killed without regeneration only for the character to return. The only on screen regeneration we've had is Jacobi to Simm. Heck even Simm and Missy have both been "killed for good" before. There's every chance we could see them again. Also if we knew who was playing the next Master wouldn't that make it impossible for the character to hide their identity from the audience? Which is something every Master has done again.[/sp][/QUOTE] The idea of Missy being the final incarnation really does leave me with a sour taste in my mouth. Of course, they left some wriggle room with the Master (there was no 100% confirmation that Gomez directly followed Simm), but any possible Master between Simm and Gomez would be ruined by the fact that we know where (s)he eventually ends up. I hope they make it clear that the inevitable next Master is AFTER Gomez rather than before. That being said, I can't see Chibnall using the Master soon (if at all); Moffat would have asked him what he wanted to do with the character, and I don't think Moffat would have done a 'final' death on screen if Chibbers was eager to use him/her in s11.

Don't forget the Master was shot dead in Last of the Timelords and refused to regenerate. The Doctor then burnt his Body But he still came back via some magic

nah, she won't be the final incarnation - it's the master we're talking about in last of the time lords john simm [I]also[/I] said he wasn't going to regenerate and then he came back anyway - don't trust him when he lies about it for a second time EDIT: started typing this before TomatoGuy posted his comment :v:

[video]http://youtube.com/watch?v=MExPjyXTrBk[/video]

[QUOTE=TomatoGuy;52427936][video]http://youtube.com/watch?v=MExPjyXTrBk[/video][/QUOTE] oh, how could i forget about the magical potions and the secret books of saxon this is the sort of top tier writing Moffat should aspire to. THIS is how you write your final two parter.

It's a shame because the Master killing himself in this fashion [I]is[/I] the perfect end to that character but also the character can't end for obvious reasons. If Doctor Who actually properly ended (which, obviously, it never should and maybe never will) that would be the ending I'd want for the Master.

[QUOTE=Freeze;52427951]It's a shame because the Master killing himself in this fashion [I]is[/I] the perfect end to that character but also the character can't end for obvious reasons. If Doctor Who actually properly ended (which, obviously, it never should and maybe never will) that would be the ending I'd want for the Master.[/QUOTE] tbh, if this was the last ever episode of Doctor Who and it ended just as the Doctor says "No stars... I hoped there'd be stars", I'd be content. EVERYTHING after that point was just so laughably shit.

[QUOTE=ElectronicG19;52427960]tbh, if this was the last ever episode of Doctor Who and it ended just as the Doctor says "No stars... I hoped there'd be stars", I'd be content. EVERYTHING after that point was just so laughably shit.[/QUOTE]how can u possibly hate on yer big man david bradley