Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

This is hard and will probably come across more negative than intended. In short, I liked it for what it was. Not so much as part of the bigger picture. Interested to see what comes next. I went in having seen all these mixed responses here and elsewhere and I’ve come out of the film with very mixed emotions. It didn’t solve any of the fundamental problems I had with The Force Awakens. It largely compounded them. There were genuine moments when all I could think was [i]“what was the point?”[/i] Then the film would go out of its way to try and tell me what the point was and in some cases I was on board, and in others, I wasn’t. Definitely kept me guessing. There were moments when I was sat there, totally engaged, loving what I was seeing. I gasped in both shock and awe in places when others around me were doing the same - and laughed plenty in others. But they weren’t always for the broad strokes. More often they were the little moments in between. The Resistance vs First Order route is still as uninspired as it was before and sadly so much of the film relies on it. I agree with George Lucas. But I can also extend his words to the sequel trilogy so far. It [i]was[/i] beautifully made (Rian did a great job). But still unnecessarily so ($$$). [sp]Considering how much of a point the film made of letting go of the past (to the point of having Kylo scream at me about it after dispatching one of the most pointless characters in the saga), it only made me respect Return of the Jedi more and doubt the direction they took even moreso. Tragic circumstances in the real world definitely loomed over the final scenes (it was lovely watching Carrie in this, though).[/sp] I understand why so many people are struggling to process this one. It will take time. Didn’t help that I unexpectedly left the cinema in heavy snow and had to shove all my immediate thoughts aside for the drive home :v:

I wonder how many unhappy people here would enjoy the original Star Wars trilogy if it had been released in modern times. You could probably find just as many problems with these new films as the originals if you tried. Imo obviously not a perfect film but I really liked it nonetheless. [sp]One thing I am concerned about is what they're going to do with Leia now since she survived TLJ. They had a few chances to kill her off.[/sp]

Great film and enjoyed the whole thing, but [sp]Why are they so afraid of making female villains? The film pretty much chickened out of Rey going to the dark side or, even better, abandoning the whole light / dark system (which would've put the whole relationship with Kylo into a better context) which would've been far more interesting than the cliche result we got in the end.[/sp] [sp]And then they just kill off Phasma in much the same way how Boba Fett ended up... just why?[/sp]

I thought the film was great. Sure there were a few (very few) scenes that were really bad [sp](the "LET'S FREE THE ANIMALS, GANG" chase scene bullshit was painful)[/sp] but as a whole it did exactly what I expected a Star Wars film to do, which is be an adventure. I definitely enjoyed a lot how the film really tries to have nuance and more complex problems [I]and[/I] solutions. [sp]It's taking some pretty subtle inspiration from the narrative structure of Empire Strikes Back, especially in relation to A New Hope/The Force Awakens. Those two were about adventure and discovering the world with eyes of wonder, and ESB/TLJ are about a brutal wakeup call, a lesson that not only do your actions have consequences but these consequences can take a VERY long time to appear and the worst mistake you can make is not acknowledge them.[/sp] I also liked how the film adds an extra layer to this with the repeated theme that [sp]not communicating is dumb and only leads to disaster. Most of the shit going wrong in the film is directly tied to people not talking to each other and trying to be secretive idiots.[/sp]

[SP]"The Last Jedi" is such a bad title for a movie that end with MORE JEDIS EVERYWHERE. I was so hyped for grey jedis or whatever they'd have called it. A new order of balance, that would have made each trilogy have a different representation of the force users too, and could open up for new innovative stuff in the sequel timeline.[/sp]

I'm surprised that nobody (besides Ganerumo) has addressed the fact that [sp]the resistance being wiped out down to enough people to fit in one Millennium Falcon and the entire casino plot being a massive waste of time is completely the fault of Leia's whatshername replacement being a secretive bitch who completely refused to explain her plan to Poe for no good reason and just tells him to eat shit while acting brainless and suspicious. Poe repeatedly asks her what the plan is and she just tells him to fuck off, resulting in a plan that goes massively wrong and gets everybody killed. I get the whole miscommunication thing and the fact that she doesn't trust Poe but I can't see any logical reason for whatshername to be such a colossal dumbass when "we're gonna mosey over to that planet, calm down" would have taken five seconds and Poe agrees with that plan anyway.[/sp] Also, [sp]the lightspeed ram is such an immensely destructive and effective attack that it makes you wonder why more people don't try it. Sure it's a kamikaze attack, but you could probably time it so that people have time to bail.[/sp]

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;52977778][SP]"The Last Jedi" is such a bad title for a movie that end with MORE JEDIS EVERYWHERE. I was so hyped for grey jedis or whatever they'd have called it. A new order of balance, that would have made each trilogy have a different representation of the force users too, and could open up for new innovative stuff in the sequel timeline.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]On one hand, yeah the Jedi aren't dying as hard as I thought they would, on the other hand Hamill IS technically still the last jedi and there's plenty of implications that Rey will try to balance both sides instead of going full light side.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52977759]I also liked how the film adds an extra layer to this with the repeated theme that [sp]not communicating is dumb and only leads to disaster. Most of the shit going wrong in the film is directly tied to people not talking to each other and trying to be secretive idiots.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]come to think of it, it's also a theme in Empire. Ben not telling Luke that Vader is his father. Leia not telling Han in time that she loves him.[/sp] [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Reds;52977830]I'm surprised that nobody (besides Ganerumo) has addressed the fact that [sp]the resistance being wiped out down to enough people to fit in one Millennium Falcon and the entire casino plot being a massive waste of time is completely the fault of Leia's whatshername replacement being a secretive bitch who completely refused to explain her plan to Poe for no good reason and just tells him to eat shit while acting brainless and suspicious.[/sp][/QUOTE] But that's not what happened. The point about the film having a theme of people not talking to each other and causing suffering is great, but it doesn't apply to what you described. [sp]Admiral's Holdo plan worked. They only failed later because The First Order found out they survived using small escape pods; and The First Order only found out because DJ (Del Toro) sold out Finn and Rose, and told them that information. Information that he would not have known unless he met Finn and Rose, who then had BB-8 broadcast that info while on call from Poe. So essentially this is all Finn's, Poe's and Rose's fault. Holdo explained why she didn't tell anybody they were planning to escape like that because that would have lowered morale, and people would desert.[/sp]

[QUOTE=halfer;52977854] But that's not what happened. The point about the film having a theme of people not talking to each other and causing suffering is great, but it doesn't apply to what you described. [sp]Admiral's Holdo plan worked. They only failed later because The First Order found out they survived using small escape pods; and The First Order only found out because DJ (Del Toro) sold out Finn and Rose, and told them that information. Information that he would not have known unless he met Finn and Rose, who then had BB-8 broadcast that info while on call from Poe. So essentially this is all Finn's, Poe's and Rose's fault. Holdo explained why she didn't tell anybody they were planning to escape like that because that would have lowered morale, and people would desert.[/sp][/QUOTE] That's what I said though, [sp]it was a plan that would have worked just fine if it wasn't for the refusal to explain said plan that resulted in Finn and Poe's plan being enacted and then going wrong and screwing everybody over. It was their fault that Holdo's plan failed, but she shares the responsibility for making them feel that they were backed into a corner and had no choice but to try this plan. I must have missed the morale line though, but I don't see how "trust me if we wait long enough something good will happen" will keep people's morale up higher.[/sp]

Holy shit that was so terrible. [sp]First and foremost, the entire drive of the film is that the Resistance (or is it Rebels again?) hasn't got enough fuel. Everything has to happen before the ships run out of fuel or it'll all be over! I get that Rey isn't meant to know this, and it's a plot point mentioned and referred to only when convenient. Rey isn't walking into a trap by following the homing beacon anymore because it's where she wants to go! I liked Reys scenes in this, and that's about all I can give it from a story perspective. Her interacting with Ren was well done and just ambiguous enough that I thought it might go somewhere interesting, on reflection it left me with a bitter after-taste.[/sp] [sp]Finn and Rose served absolutely no purpose this film. Yoda can say "mistakes into miracles" all he wants, but when you spend half an hour accomplishing nothing but freeing some Space Ponies from evil warmongers (that also fund the rebellion whoa hypocrisy can't wait to never bring this up again!) and getting captured, you've accomplished nothing. Rose can save him at the end, but there was no need to. Rey pulled the TIE fighters away and destroyed them. There was no need for Finn to kamikaze into the Battering Ram, Rey can't have been looking for life-signs this whole time when the Charge of the Light Brigade was still ongoing and all that firepower was being unloaded onto a ghost. Roughly about the same time, Finn was dragging Rose back into the base also. We saw that maybe Poe used some tunnels in the trenches (that were dug in half an hour apparently), but Finn is right in the door. Did he go around the laser-light-show? Rose now loves Finn because they freed Donkeys together, got captured and betrayed I guess. Set up for drama in 9 with Rey.[/sp] [sp] Luke's arc I liked as a story, but not as something that happened to Luke Skywalker. He's brash but tender. He redeemed his Father knowing that there was good in him. He went to the edge, and then came back. There is no reason he should go to this edge again on a premonition. Luke Skywalker is better than that and deserves better than that. Force-ghost was stupid as all hell, but I suppose in 9 they can use scenes of Ben and Luke talking and interacting. Which would be nice, but we undone all of Ben's development after him and Rey had a kickass teamup that aided both of their characters. You can argue that he's a self-destructive arsehole, and you'd be right. But it doesn't make for a satisfying action-adventure movie. One of my weaker quibbles but damn if that didn't piss me off. Destroy the Sith all you want, and struggle to accept being a Jedi. Or just be a Jedi because you managed to get those books on the ship without Luke noticing before he went to burn them, and then you can fight a Dark Side Force user who isn't a Sith. But you're still a Jedi.[/sp] [sp]Why didn't Ellie Sadler 360-no-scope the Flagship earlier? I figured part of the issue was that they couldn't fit everyone on the Transports and she didn't want people to die unecessarily. But then I remembered that she'd been acting ambiguously all film, and it made sense for her to be a Traitor feeding co-ordinates to the First Order. But her plan really was to not tell everyone to get in the transports. If that were my plan I'd know I was stupid and exile myself in a ship that apparently doesn't have autopilot or cruise control, but instead she heroically sacrifices herself to make a previous hour of the film pointless.[/sp] [sp]There were also several moments where it would've been good to kill off Leia. I think the Superman scene has had enough people rip on it so I'll let that one die. But I genuinely expected the camera to cut to people saying "Oh god not Princess Carrie Fischer she was one of a kind!" So I guess the film surprised me there. You now have Princess Leia, the one character you can't have alive in the film, as the only remaining member of the original trilogy still alive and a prominent character. Oops.[/sp] One good Character arc and some cool visuals do not make for a good film. I'm so fucking mad about this piece of shit.

[QUOTE=halfer;52977854][sp]come to think of it, it's also a theme in Empire. Ben not telling Luke that Vader is his father. Leia not telling Han in time that she loves him.[/sp] [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] But that's not what happened. The point about the film having a theme of people not talking to each other and causing suffering is great, but it doesn't apply to what you described. [sp]Admiral's Holdo plan worked. They only failed later because The First Order found out they survived using small escape pods; and The First Order only found out because DJ (Del Toro) sold out Finn and Rose, and told them that information. Information that he would not have known unless he met Finn and Rose, who then had BB-8 broadcast that info while on call from Poe. So essentially this is all Finn's, Poe's and Rose's fault. Holdo explained why she didn't tell anybody they were planning to escape like that because that would have lowered morale, and people would desert.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Holdo's plan worked but just barely. It was initially a sound plan, but her failure to communicate has lead to Poe Dameron running a mutiny while trying his hand at his own reckless plan, which not only failed but resulted in someone snitching and thus eliminating the deceit factor which Holdo was planning on. She was a snarky bitch and Poe was an impatient asshole, leading to both of their plans colliding into an immense mess that literally destroyed 90% of the resistance.[/sp] [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] Also I really liked how Luke [sp]has a little speech about how it's fucking stupid to idealize the Jedi and treat them as mystical gods, because they're just as liable to fucking up as everyone else, and how meta that discussion felt. I feel like a lot of people have fucking checked out of that part altogether considering how often I'm seeing the same criticism of "why did Luke fuck up, he's supposed to be the best!". Like, that's the point, he's old and got carried away by his own pride because his track record blinded him. And he only regains hope in the very last moments of his life.[/sp]

Man, oh man. I'm really not happy with TLJ. The Luke/island stuff was mostly good, but the rest... Ugh. [B]TLJ SPOILERS[/B] [sp]So I guess the Knights of Ren aren't interesting enough to show up/play any part at all in the story?[/sp] I have more but it's late so I'll post more later.

[QUOTE=Reds;52977893]That's what I said though, [sp]it was a plan that would have worked just fine if it wasn't for the refusal to explain said plan that resulted in Finn and Poe's plan being enacted and then going wrong and screwing everybody over. It was their fault that Holdo's plan failed, but she shares the responsibility for making them feel that they were backed into a corner and had no choice but to try this plan. I must have missed the morale line though, but I don't see how "trust me if we wait long enough something good will happen" will keep people's morale up higher.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]there was some story she told that explained that she was afraid people would desert on their own or cause panic. At least I think there was, now I'm doubting myself[/sp] EDIT: [sp]Found it, seems I misinterpreted the dialogue and thought the story went differently. Here's her line from the movie: "When I served under Leia, she would say, hope is like the sun. If you only believe in it when you can see it... You'll never make it through the night." I, when watching the film, remembered it completely differently, I thoght it was a story about people going apeshit when there's no hope, and they know they'll die; so that's why she chose to not tell anybody there's imminent danger and kind of sit it out; and why she chose not to tell about the plan, because the plan doesn't make sense unless you tell everybody they're going to die. It seems the story is about something completely different, now I'm confused[/sp]

[QUOTE=cyclocius;52977905][sp] Luke's arc I liked as a story, but not as something that happened to Luke Skywalker. He's brash but tender. He redeemed his Father knowing that there was good in him. He went to the edge, and then came back. There is no reason he should go to this edge again on a premonition. Luke Skywalker is better than that and deserves better than that. Force-ghost was stupid as all hell, but I suppose in 9 they can use scenes of Ben and Luke talking and interacting. Which would be nice, but we undone all of Ben's development after him and Rey had a kickass teamup that aided both of their characters. You can argue that he's a self-destructive arsehole, and you'd be right. But it doesn't make for a satisfying action-adventure movie. One of my weaker quibbles but damn if that didn't piss me off. Destroy the Sith all you want, and struggle to accept being a Jedi. Or just be a Jedi because you managed to get those books on the ship without Luke noticing before he went to burn them, and then you can fight a Dark Side Force user who isn't a Sith. But you're still a Jedi.[/sp] [/QUOTE] [sp]How is Luke projecting his image with the force stupid when that's literally an ability which ascended force users have had since the VERY FIRST FILM in the franchise ? The film goes out of its way to establish that lifting rocks with your mind is baby shit and the real power of the force lies in how it enables its user to project themselves onto the cosmos, which is inherently one of the most powerful states of being one can achieve for fairly evident reasons.[/sp] [sp]The kickass teamup was yet another time where the film utilizes its themes of converging ideals and conflicting methods. Ultimately Rey and Kylo want the same thing, they want to find a place for themselves, and they initially both wanted to live up to their heritage, but Rey decided to honor history whereas Kylo just wants to raze everything and rebuild it all in his image. She's learning balance in her ambitions when Kylo willingly lost control.[/sp] [sp]And the master being a disillusioned, faithless old dirtbag is an ancient trope of the genre. It's often an integral part of adventure stories because it establishes conflict and helps as a means to convey themes of legacy, regret and hubris. Saying it doesn't work for an adventure film is completely going against the conventions of adventure films.[/sp] [sp]And did you miss the part where Leia literally crippled now and old and has completely given command over to Poe Dameron, telling what is left of the resistance to follow his lead ? She's not a prominent character anymore. She survived but she was clearly slated for a laid back role which will interact well with Carrie Fisher's unfortunate passing.[/sp] [QUOTE=Marden;52977941]Man, oh man. I'm really not happy with TLJ. The Luke/island stuff was mostly good, but the rest... Ugh. [B]TLJ SPOILERS[/B] [sp]So I guess the Knights of Ren aren't interesting enough to show up/play any part at all in the story?[/sp] I have more but it's late so I'll post more later.[/QUOTE] [sp]Probably keeping it for a third installment where it actually makes sense for Kylo to assume command of them now that Snoke is out of the picture. They would have been superfluous in this film especially since we still don't know much about them.[/sp]

ok you go then

Just finished seeing it. Part of me wants to like it but the more I sit on it the more I just didn't care much for it. But at least they're keeping up the tradition of [sp]taking really cool characters and giving them a cheap as fuck death. Rip jango, boba, maul, grevious. You got a new member in phasma today.[/sp]

I'd like to really highlight how cool it is that [sp]being a powerful force user is now back to stuff like cosmic projection and such instead of just being able to lift bigger things. Luke makes a pretty strong point that swinging lightsabers and moving stuff with your mind is baby shit and that it takes genuine mastery to achieve an actual connection with the world around you, one that goes deeper than just disturbing the flow to make flashy shit happen. The film further goes in that direction by having a literal child be able to move a broom whereas Yoda, who's been dead for decades by now, is able to manifest fucking thunder from beyond the grave, at will, and with seemingly very little effort.[/sp]

Just got back from seeing it. The only thing I didn't like was [sp]that leia scene[/sp] but other than that I thought it was excellent. Luke and Ren were my favorite parts, though I had a blast with a lot of the other stuff as well. It actually made me like Poe too, because after TFA I thought it was a useless character who was written back to life because Oscar Issac didn't want to play someone who dies quickly. [editline]14th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;52978390]I'd like to really highlight how cool it is that [sp]being a powerful force user is now back to stuff like cosmic projection and such instead of just being able to lift bigger things. Luke makes a pretty strong point that swinging lightsabers and moving stuff with your mind is baby shit and that it takes genuine mastery to achieve an actual connection with the world around you, one that goes deeper than just disturbing the flow to make flashy shit happen. The film further goes in that direction by having a literal child be able to move a broom whereas Yoda, who's been dead for decades by now, is able to manifest fucking thunder from beyond the grave, at will, and with seemingly very little effort.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]I felt like a little kid again watching that Yoda shit. I was so happy. It was even a puppet![/sp]

Just got back..[sp]I honestly don't know where the series is gonna go from there. Han died, Luke died, Snoke died, and Leia's not gonna be in the next movie.[/sp]

Got really tired of [sp]BB8 ex machina like Jesus this little robot is crucial for almost every hero's survival [/sp]

I really really enjoyed it [sp]but I can't believe Ackbar is flipping dead :([/sp]

Really did not enjoy TLJ, at all. It frankly wasn't a good movie. Call me a fanboy, or a purist, or whatever, but I just really don't like these new movies. They don't feel like Star Wars to me at all. They just feel marketed and fake.

MAJOR SPOILERS FOR THE LAST JEDI IN THE HIDDEN [sp]Wow... that was something. Just got back from seeing it. I liked it and would give it an 8/10 but I do have a few complaints about it. 1. Luke's death. Wow. I feel that was completely underwhelming though I like what they did with his character throughout the movie. 2. The asian girl, May or whatever her name was. She felt completely shoehorned in. Cut her out of the movie please. 3. Snoke. He felt like a non-factor in the movie. Completely misleading but less of a complaint and more of a shocker to me. Especially how Kylo slices the fucker in half. 4. Captain Phasma. Once again only in the move for 10 minutes only to be thrown in the trashcan again. 5. Porgs. Shoehorned in too much but they had some funny comic relief moments, including the nest that was made in the Millenium Falcon. 6. Rey. Her development felt really a bit rushed, wish she spent more time with Luke on that jedi planet. Easily the best part of the movie is Kylo Ren. 10/10 right there I love that he is (almost) truly evil now. Also that fight scene in the throne room with Rey and Kylo fighting together was fucking incredible. [/sp]

Pretty good but I missed the first 15-20 mins so maybe those were just awful

[QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;52978645]Really did not enjoy TLJ, at all. It frankly wasn't a good movie. Call me a fanboy, or a purist, or whatever, but I just really don't like these new movies. They don't feel like Star Wars to me at all. They just feel marketed and fake.[/QUOTE] I mean, it feels really on point with what Star Wars is known for and I feel like a lot of the more caustic complaints about the film are because it's not "marketed and fake" enough. Like so many people are seemingly mad just because [sp]Luke isn't a massive badass who dies a hero's death and instead gets a peaceful end similar to Yoda's because he's a wise old man and not a stereotypical warrior monk, something he NEVER WAS btw[/sp], to me it kinda shows that people wanted a more predictable story and were mad that it went in this odd, but still very star wars adventure. [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Reds;52977830]I'm surprised that nobody (besides Ganerumo) has addressed the fact that [sp]the resistance being wiped out down to enough people to fit in one Millennium Falcon and the entire casino plot being a massive waste of time is completely the fault of Leia's whatshername replacement being a secretive bitch who completely refused to explain her plan to Poe for no good reason and just tells him to eat shit while acting brainless and suspicious. Poe repeatedly asks her what the plan is and she just tells him to fuck off, resulting in a plan that goes massively wrong and gets everybody killed. I get the whole miscommunication thing and the fact that she doesn't trust Poe but I can't see any logical reason for whatshername to be such a colossal dumbass when "we're gonna mosey over to that planet, calm down" would have taken five seconds and Poe agrees with that plan anyway.[/sp] Also, [sp]the lightspeed ram is such an immensely destructive and effective attack that it makes you wonder why more people don't try it. Sure it's a kamikaze attack, but you could probably time it so that people have time to bail.[/sp][/QUOTE] I assume because [sp]It's fairly easy to actually dodge in so many other situations. The reason it worked here is because Hux is an idiot who outright ignored the ship and only ordered its destruction far too late after minutes of ignoring the careful setup that it took to execute the attack. Oh and a smaller ship would have probably just disintegrated on impact[/sp]

Eh. Was worth the watch but not too impressed. Disney definitely made Rian Johnson play it safe again, I’m tired of the same old plot devices we’ve already seen with a new coat of paint. Some of the events that happened were head scratching too [sp]so what reason was there that the First Order couldn’t just obliterate the Rebel fleet? It seemed like it only serves to create a “ticking time bomb” plot device. I also hope they give us a little more background on Snoke.[/sp]. There’s this massive galaxy that exists in the Star Wars universe, I’m looking forward to the next big trilogy so hopefully we can start fresh instead of the same old plot devices and Skywalker family drama.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;52978726]Eh. Was worth the watch but not too impressed. Disney definitely made Rian Johnson play it safe again, I’m tired of the same old plot devices we’ve already seen with a new coat of paint. Some of the events that happened were head scratching too [sp]so what reason was there that the First Order couldn’t just obliterate the Rebel fleet? It seemed like it only serves to create a “ticking time bomb” plot device. I also hope they give us a little more background on Snoke.[/sp]. There’s this massive galaxy that exists in the Star Wars universe, I’m looking forward to the next big trilogy so hopefully we can start fresh instead of the same old plot devices and Skywalker family drama.[/QUOTE] [sp]They couldn't obliterate them because they were sitting at a safe distance, out of range of most of their arsenal. So they just followed them around waiting for them to run out of fuel so they'd get forced in range of their weapons and get obliterated[/sp]

Don't think this is spoilery. Besides Luke's arc, I thought it was laughable trash

just got back really liked it cept for [sp]cap phasma being underutilized again. I honestly want to see Rise of the jedi boba fett and captian phasma fight and see who can accidentally kill themselves first[/sp]

[QUOTE=Wii60;52978835]just got back really liked it cept for [sp]cap phasma being underutilized again. I honestly want to see Rise of the jedi boba fett and captian phasma fight and see who can accidentally kill themselves first[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]she’ll be back, you didn’t see her on screen. Her gimmick is that this is how her story ends in each movie.[/sp]