Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

If Episode 9 opens with BB-8 exploding and then being not mentioned for the rest of the movie it'll automatically take the slot of best Star Wars movie as far as I'm concerned. The [sp]AT-ST hijacking[/sp] was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

This movie is a hot schizophrenic mess. The parts that are good are pretty amazing, the parts that are bad are prequel bad or worse. All over the place. I can definitely see why Hamill has the issues with this movie he does, [sp] Luke is neither dumb nor jaded, he's simply the opposite of whatever Rey suggests as a course of action, and that literally changes from scene to scene, pretty much Starbuck from season 4 of Galactica where they ran out of things for her to be traumatized about, so they just made her be the person who hated every plan, naysayed every course of action and yelled at every person whom had an idea how to "win" the war, up to and including the same idea she was for the previous episode, simply for the sake of having a DRAMATIC TENSION scene, and that's pretty much Luke this entire movie, the only characters that act remotely consistent to TFA in this movie is Rey, Chewie and Ben, virtually everyone else in this movie might as well have been a new character. Luke's death is also utterly pointless, serving neither characterization nor plot. [/sp]

For me the best part is [sp]immediately after snoke dying we see this awesome sequence of Kylo and Rey fighting together. For a minute there I actually wanted to see where it would go if she joined him[/sp] [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=27X;52978863]This movie is a hot schizophrenic mess. The parts that are good are pretty amazing, the parts that are bad are prequel bad or worse. All over the place. I can definitely see why Hamill has the issues with this movie he does, [sp] Luke is neither dumb nor jaded, he's simply the opposite of whatever Rey suggests as a course of action, and that literally changes from scene to scene, pretty much Starbuck from season 4 of Galactica where they ran out of things for her to be traumatized about, so they just made her be the person who hated every plan, naysayed every course of action and yelled at every person whom had an idea how to "win" the war, up to and including the same idea she was for the previous episode, simply for the sake of having a DRAMATIC TENSION scene, and that's pretty much Luke this entire movie, the only characters that act remotely consistent to TFA in this movie is Rey, Chewie and Ben, virtually everyone else in this movie might as well have been a new character. Luke's death is also utterly pointless, serving neither characterization nor plot. [/sp][/QUOTE] on your last point: [sp]it is very obviously meant to have some kind of purpose in episode 9, but unfortunately we wont see why for another 2 years[/sp]

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;52978840][sp]she’ll be back, you didn’t see her on screen. Her gimmick is that this is how her story ends in each movie.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]In the next film she will show up with her armor burnt to charred remains, her face burnt beyond recognition, and she will be an unstoppable force that feels no pain up until she slips on one of those tiny mouse droids and just eats shit down a flight of stairs, getting her stupid shoulder cape caught in a ship's cargo door as it takes off, dragging her along into the sky[/sp] [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=27X;52978863]This movie is a hot schizophrenic mess. The parts that are good are pretty amazing, the parts that are bad are prequel bad or worse. All over the place. I can definitely see why Hamill has the issues with this movie he does, [sp] Luke is neither dumb nor jaded, he's simply the opposite of whatever Rey suggests as a course of action, and that literally changes from scene to scene, pretty much Starbuck from season 4 of Galactica where they ran out of things for her to be traumatized about, so they just made her be the person who hated every plan, naysayed every course of action and yelled at every person whom had an idea how to "win" the war, up to and including the same idea she was for the previous episode, simply for the sake of having a DRAMATIC TENSION scene, and that's pretty much Luke this entire movie, the only characters that act remotely consistent to TFA in this movie is Rey, Chewie and Ben, virtually everyone else in this movie might as well have been a new character. Luke's death is also utterly pointless, serving neither characterization nor plot. [/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Luke is an old, disillusioned fart who failed to be a master and failed to live up to his own expectations as both a teacher and a powerful jedi. He admits fully to having been a proud and petty fuckwit for a while and acknowledges some of his mistakes but does not learn from them, being instead too busy with being sad over having messed up. Yoda teaching him about how mistakes are the greatest teacher also serves as a reminder of all the times Rey did the exact same mistakes that Luke did, without Luke realizing it or really making any mention of them. After all when Luke first met Yoda he was so caught up in his grand expectations that he did not even realize he was talking to the right guy which, before Obi-Wan's involvement, almost completely shot down his chances at being taught proper. I also think his death was fine. He's old and physically weakened by years of poor practice and abandoning himself to personal ruin, so it makes sense that suddenly stepping back into the fray and performing a feat that only dead force users can manage under normal circumstances would shred what little vitality he has to bits. It was also very solemn and meaningful that, in his last moments, he actually does get to be the headstrong, proud and elegant warrior he's wanted to be since he was a farmhand on Tatooine. After that the old hermit that he became has no real reason to exist because he's allowed his legendary image to completely overtake him and be reborn. I think an important point to be made is that strong light side force users don't "die", they quite literally fade away. They reach a point where they connection to the world is such that their body is but a passing shell to a greater mind that, effectively, can survive on its own. Yoda only remained in his body for as long as he did because he had to teach Luke and once he did that he just allowed himself to slip away and faded into his ethereal form. Luke did very much the same thing as his mortal shell outlived its purpose and he thus discarded it, accomplishing the same manner of cosmic ascension.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52978714]I mean, it feels really on point with what Star Wars is known for and I feel like a lot of the more caustic complaints about the film are because it's not "marketed and fake" enough. Like so many people are seemingly mad just because [sp]Luke isn't a massive badass who dies a hero's death and instead gets a peaceful end similar to Yoda's because he's a wise old man and not a stereotypical warrior monk, something he NEVER WAS btw[/sp], to me it kinda shows that people wanted a more predictable story and were mad that it went in this odd, but still very star wars adventure. [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] I assume because [sp]It's fairly easy to actually dodge in so many other situations. The reason it worked here is because Hux is an idiot who outright ignored the ship and only ordered its destruction far too late after minutes of ignoring the careful setup that it took to execute the attack. Oh and a smaller ship would have probably just disintegrated on impact[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]People aren't mad because Luke didn't fulfill their fanboy fantasies, they're taking umbrage with this entire ordeal because everything these characters fought for in the previous trilogy has been torn asunder. I'm all for deconstructing characters and running them through as much adversity as possible to test their resolve, but the time has come for that already; that ship has sailed already.[/sp]

I feel like it would have been a fucking massive case of irredeemable tonal shift if Luke [sp]turned out to be totally okay and chipper and just rebuilt the Jedi all of his own after suffering a humiliating personal defeat the hands of his own vanity.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52978946]I feel like it would have been a fucking massive case of irredeemable tonal shift if Luke [sp]turned out to be totally okay and chipper and just rebuilt the Jedi all of his own after suffering a humiliating personal defeat the hands of his own vanity.[/sp][/QUOTE] It was heavily implied that Luke would go on to rebuild the Jedi successfully at the denouement of [I]Return of the Jedi[/I], and that's exactly what happened in the EU. Anything less just spits upon everything they fought for against Sidious and his machinations. [sp][URL]https://streamable.com/1bky7[/URL][/sp] Please watch this.

tlj forgot to mention [sp]that space leia scene is probably the most hilarious thing i have ever seen in a star wars film from a pure cheese factor. I want to see the RLM review even more because of that alone.[/sp]

Was just watching a Twitch stream, minding my own business. Had half the movie spoiled for me. UGH

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52978967]It was heavily implied that Luke would go on to rebuild the Jedi successfully at the denouement of [I]Return of the Jedi[/I], and that's exactly what happened in the EU. Anything less just spits upon everything they fought for against Sidious and his machinations. [sp][URL]https://streamable.com/1bky7[/URL][/sp] Please watch this.[/QUOTE] Did you miss the part where the film addresses the fact that [sp]Luke DID want to rebuild the order, and ALMOST got it to work, but he was caught up in his pride and fucked it up by accidentally turning his best pupil to the dark side ?[/sp] Like he literally has the same goals as he did in the end of ROTJ [sp]but instead of succeeding he fails because of a drastic mistake which haunts him to this day.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52979020]Did you miss the part where the film addresses the fact that [sp]Luke DID want to rebuild the order, and ALMOST got it to work, but he was caught up in his pride and fucked it up by accidentally turning his best pupil to the dark side ?[/sp] Like he literally has the same goals as he did in the end of ROTJ [sp]but instead of succeeding he fails because of a drastic mistake which haunts him to this day.[/sp][/QUOTE] I know what happened, that doesn't make it justified as far as trivializing previous triumphs. Luke didn't [I]have[/I] to be that way, and events didn't [I]have[/I] to transpire the way they did. After everything that happened in these movies, Palpatine returning in clone bodies doesn't seem so far-fetched or deleterious at this point.

I actually really fucking liked this movie. My opinion may change upon further viewings, but after coming out of the theater and processing for a bit this is sitting tentatively in my top three. Except for [i]one thing.[/i] [sp]Fucking Leia pulling a Superman through space. The concept of Leia using the Force to pull herself back to a ship is fine, but she totally should have done it as soon as she was blown into space, because the amount of time that passed made me and everyone I saw the movie with comfortable with the idea that she was dead.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52979030]I know what happened, that doesn't make it justified as far as trivializing previous triumphs. Luke didn't [I]have[/I] to be that way, and events didn't [I]have[/I] to transpire the way they did. After everything that happened in these movies, Palpatine returning in clone bodies doesn't seem so far-fetched or deleterious at this point.[/QUOTE] I mean it's just my opinion but I find it infinitely more interesting than the crazy shit that the EU pulled, with Luke becoming an absolutely absurd figure of power which, depending on the story, fluctuates between being a borderline god and turning so evil it's giving ol' Palpatine a boner from beyond the grave. Luke even addresses how [sp]everyone expects him to be a shining beacon of hope and how that's bullshit because all it does is create pride and hurts people by equating people to gods[/sp], which I thought was a clever way of discussing how bullshit both the EU and the prequels got in this regard.

I don't think any power in the EU is quite as comically absurd as [sp]flying through space[/sp].

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52979095]I don't think any power in the EU is quite as comically absurd as [sp]flying through space[/sp].[/QUOTE] So [sp]physically attracting yourself to a large vessel in Zero G using the very same principles of force pushing/pulling that so many other force users have utilized since ANH[/sp] is somehow more absurd than shit like the sun crusher and lightsaber knees It's somehow more absurd than the entirety of the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crystal_Star]Crystal Star[/url] book in which Luke loses his powers to an exploding sun, gets really bitchy, and joins an evil cult. It's somehow crazier and sillier than [I]Skippy the goddamn fucking droid[/I]. ok

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52979095]I don't think any power in the EU is quite as comically absurd as [sp]flying through space[/sp].[/QUOTE] The idea of that happening isn't actually all that bad, imo. What [i]is[/i] absurd is [sp]the amount of time that had passed in the movie before it did happen. Like, if she's gonna do it, have her do it before she starts fucking frosting over in space.[/sp]

I must be one of the few people who didn't find the [sp]leia space scene[/sp] weird? I actually thought it was a really cool moment to [sp]finally reveal her powers[/sp] [sp]as far as force powers go, moving yourself in space is actually extremely 'low end' so to speak: with no air resistance and gravity, it only takes the slightest push to get you drifting where you need to go. it didn't seem awkward to me either, at least compared to how graceful anyone looks when drifting in space, have you ever seen an astronaut?[/sp] [sp]although I actually read a while ago that leia survived this movie, around the time of fisher's death I think? so there was never any doubt for me that she survived the explosion somehow. that definitely coloured my experience and I can see how it might be weird for someone who assumed she was dead[/sp]

I thought that scene was alright in concept although there was definitely something weird and fucky with special effects regarding [sp]force pushing and pulling[/sp] across the film. It looked way worse than similar effects in TFA with the exception of [sp]Hux royally eating shit against a dashboard in the ship, that was legitimately funny and well done[/sp]

I loved it. It wasn't perfect, of course, but I'd definitely place it at least above the prequels and Rogue One. [sp]I was hoping for Phasma to finally be awesome though. If she's still alive, she needs to join Team Rocket.[/sp]

[QUOTE=halfer;52977854][sp]But that's not what happened. The point about the film having a theme of people not talking to each other and causing suffering is great, but it doesn't apply to what you described. [sp]Admiral's Holdo plan worked. They only failed later because The First Order found out they survived using small escape pods; and The First Order only found out because DJ (Del Toro) sold out Finn and Rose, and told them that information. Information that he would not have known unless he met Finn and Rose, who then had BB-8 broadcast that info while on call from Poe. So essentially this is all Finn's, Poe's and Rose's fault. Holdo explained why she didn't tell anybody they were planning to escape like that because that would have lowered morale, and people would desert.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]But if a massive fuck off plot contrivance hadn't caused them to end up with DJ instead of the code breaker then they never would have found that out in the first place. Poe's plan succeeding required Finn and Rose obeying parking rules and then a random merchandise bot that existed purely to spot BB8 spotting BB8. They wrote it in such a way that you could tell they were writing the plan to fail, it wasn't Finn and Rose's fault the plan failed it was the writer's. You can fix that pretty easily by just making less crappy excuses. I don't think it helps that the reward for Poe's success would've been much greater than the reward for Holdo's since Poe if Poe succeeds then they would end up with the entire fleet undamaged whereas Holdo's you end up with just the last survivors on the main ship. I understand and appreciate the theme they were going for withPoe's failed plan, but they flubbed the execution so badly and in practice it just ends up making the Resistance leader look like a moron. [/sp]

[QUOTE=Kiwi;52979238]Guys. For the love that is all holy [B]please hit preview and make sure your spoiler tags are working[/B]. Rossy you only got away with it cause you quickly fixed it and edited it and I didn't see it till after I refreshed the post. Sorry about that Ross.[/QUOTE] Yeah I'm [B]really[/B] sorry, will in future.

Wow, I really like The Force Awakens. It wasn’t without its faults, but even upon multiple viewings I enjoyed it. 7/10. Also really liked Rogue One (again, not without its faults.). So I’m not a new trilogy/new Disney hater. I absolutely despised 75% of this movie and loved 25ish %. There were just so many head scratching moments. I can’t even name the, all, but here are a few. [sp]Poe taking out almost all of the defenses of the dreadnaught before they decide to do anything, and still continuing to be successful once they do. First Order chasing the resistance at exactly the same speed and distance for nearly the whole movie, and their weapons being suddenly ineffective at that range. Also, they don’t launch a ton of fighters to finish the 3 ships off. Really, no bombers? We just saw what Poe’s one swing could do against a whole dreadnaught. Timing and odd look to Leia flying scene, then she’s unconscious again? As someone mentioned above, admiral lady just decides not to tell Poe the plan, just because. The creatures’ pointlessness. I kept expecting some payoff, like they actually have some part to play other than looking cute. Yoda did not look good for some reason. Just didn’t look like him... again. Felt like Episode 1 again (ok, not that bad, but still, just, way off. Shoulda done CGI, or worked harder to get the puppet to look like the ESB or ROTJ one. Snoke’s death and the subsequent fight were awesome, but who was Snoke. Felt like it was a big opportunity to tie something in. Maybe they still will, or he’s not dead. According to canon now, you can survive getting sliced in half. Phasma’s once again pointless roll. Deux Ex Machina BB8 hyperspace torpedo kamikaze ship, has no one thought of this before? Could you not do a remote controlled ship with lots of explosive stuff? Luke survives fake battle, only to die. I get we’re supposed to feel resistance is fighting against all odds, but there’s like, no one.[/sp] Theres more, but here’s what I liked: [sp]Ray training. Could have been better, but was pretty good. Luke/Rey/Kylo characters. Rey/Kylo interaction. A little cheapened that snoke was doing it, but still liked it. Some of the jokes. Some were out of place but some were good and funny. Snoke death and subsequent battle. Chewie and Rey blasting Tie Fighters.[/sp] Ultimately I walked away from TLJ feeling like... “ugh.” for me, I rate them like this. Ep 1. 5.5⭐️ Ep 2. 4⭐️ Ep 3. 5⭐️ Ep 4. 8.5⭐️ Ep 5. 9.9⭐️ Ep 6. 7.5⭐️ Ep 7. 7.5⭐️ Ep 8. 5.5⭐️ RO. 7.0 ⭐️

I just realized through all the other downsides, how underwhelming [sp]the battle of Crait was. The AT-AT's barely did anything. No real ground troop battles like I wanted. Should have cut the entire casino and chase plots, and rather have the FO vs Resistance part of the movie being built up by showing both sides arming up on Crait. [/sp] Adds up to my main gripe; so many missed opportunities. [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=blazer003;52979246]Wow[/QUOTE] Might wanna spoiler tag all that mate

That was disappointing. Not bad, just a letdown Better than R1, not as good as TFA

Hey guys, wait a [I]damn[/I] second. [sp]If Snoke really is Darth Plagueis then he could cheat death a second time and return for the last movie of the new trilogy[/sp]! ... Right, guys? ... [B]GUYS[/B]?

Decently big spoilers I guess? [sp]Really disappointed there legitimately wasn't any sign of [I]Rebellion General[/I] Lando in the film. I get they mentioned in a tweet that he wasn't but I was, stupidly, hoping that was a bait and switch to set him up as the master code breaker or something. Benicio's character was lame. Whilst I liked the film, don't get me wrong, I feel between this and completely shafting Snoke and Phasma again has left me feeling underwhelmed more than anything. I don't feel like TLJ progressed anything at all. Just having some questions answered would have made it better, in my opinion.[/sp]

Okay, I had my sleep so I'll write a bit more. I'll try not to mention everything but there will be a lot of major spoilers. I need to see if somebody else feels the same because I can't decide if it's trash, okay or good and I just don't get it. [B][U]MAJOR THE LAST JEDI SPOILERS! Seriously, stay away.[/U][/B] [sp]So first of all I need to talk about the movie as a whole. It's a reaction to seeing posts how we fans are not happy when the new movies copy the older films or when they actually try to do new stuff. I can easily compare TLJ to ESB. In ESB the rebels got fucked up at the start but then they run off to different places from Hoth and have their adventure at new location. In TLJ most of the time you are stuck on a ship slowly escaping from the First Order. Imagine if the Hoth evacuation was 80 percent of the overall plot in ESB with the battle taking place at the last 20 percent of the film. Sure, you get the apprentice/master arc in both movies but for the rest of the cast you are stuck with really boring scenario in TLJ. I'll get lazy here and just say I was fine with Luke, Rey and Kylo developments. Let's see what Ep.9 brings to really give a final judgement on them. Let's talk about the space battles for a moment. For one, are the First Order really that arogant and lazy to just not engage all their ships in the battles? At the start why couldn't 2-3 ships go after the rebel ships while the rest defended the big bomber more actively? Why did only the Snoke ship fire at the rebel ships during the chase? Are the scanners in these ships so shitty they aren't able to spot smaller ships escaping the main ship without someone telling them to check for them? First Order JUST has a technology to track ships through Hyperspace? Why do the rebel bombers have their drop mechanism on a remote switch and not somewhere at the pilot/gunner/both controls as a button? I wasn't feeling the Leia flying scene. I don't hate it but I was more shocked by them actually killing her. When she woke up and did that I wasn't sure how to take it. One scene that was worth it though was when she afterwards arrives at the bridge and stuns Poe's ass. The Finn and Rose adventure is probably the worst part of the movie. The look of the place has a strange vibe (quite childish, too) but most importantly it takes place away from the main plots and in the end has fucking zero importance. And don't give me that the movie was about failures are the greatest teachers. The saying is true, you learn from a failure but this entire side adventure can be removed with no impact at all. Nobody learned shit. All we got from it is Phasma blasting away and BB8 jumping the shark. Lastly, I'm sad the new mysteries that where introduced in TFA were once again ignored. We still don't know jack shit about Snoke and Knights of the Ren. Instead trying to do something interesting with them the former was just a red herring and I wonder if the latter will appear ever again. Actually let's talk about Snoke's death. I see killing him off as avoiding coming up with his backstory more than anything but I feel the way he went down was inconsistent with his portrayal of power. With Rey he stopped every attempt to grab the sword and attack. He combined their minds, could read their thoughts. He really couldn't sense the force manipulation right next to him? Was Kylo really that good at masking his feelings? Snoke was actually pretty skeptical of Kylo at start of the movie but in those last moments he seemed to trust him way more than I would expect.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Flicky;52979056]I actually really fucking liked this movie. My opinion may change upon further viewings, but after coming out of the theater and processing for a bit this is sitting tentatively in my top three. Except for [i]one thing.[/i] [sp]Fucking Leia pulling a Superman through space. The concept of Leia using the Force to pull herself back to a ship is fine, but she totally should have done it as soon as she was blown into space, because the amount of time that passed made me and everyone I saw the movie with comfortable with the idea that she was dead.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]she barely had any point in being in the rest and now it's gonna be awkward to explain in the sequel. They could've used the opportunity to kill her off[/sp] [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Marden;52979307] [sp]Actually let's talk about Snoke's death. I see killing him off as avoiding coming up with his backstory more than anything but I feel the way he went down was inconsistent with his portrayal of power. With Rey he stopped every attempt to grab the sword and attack. He combined their minds, could read their thoughts. He really couldn't sense the force manipulation right next to him? Was Kylo really that good at masking his feelings? Snoke was actually pretty skeptical of Kylo at start of the movie but in those last moments he seemed to trust him way more than I would expect.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp] I doubt it, we'll likely still get back story from other material such as books comics or encyclopedias. I think they were subverting expectation with this move.[/sp] The fight immediately following might be the best star wars fight ive ever seen imo

I'm not gonna do a big write up, but I will say I feel a lot of the negativity is overblown. That's not to say it's amazing, but it's not nearly as bad as I've heard here. The lows were low, but the highs were high. I enjoyed it, but it'll probably take some time for me to gather all my thoughts together. [sp] but that Leia scene lol[/sp]

[QUOTE=Marden;52979307][SP]Actually let's talk about Snoke's death. I see killing him off as avoiding coming up with his backstory more than anything but I feel the way he went down was inconsistent with his portrayal of power. With Rey he stopped every attempt to grab the sword and attack. He combined their minds, could read their thoughts. He really couldn't sense the force manipulation right next to him? Was Kylo really that good at masking his feelings? Snoke was actually pretty skeptical of Kylo at start of the movie but in those last moments he seemed to trust him way more than I would expect.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Snoke was busy using his force powers reading into Kylo Ren's mind, but misinterpreted what he saw as Kylo preparing to kill Rey, not to kill him. He couldn't have possibly sensed the force manipulation going on because he was employing his force powers elsewhere and the Sith aren't nearly as good at being one with the universe as the Jedi since they're all about disturbing the cosmic flow, not embracing it, so he couldn't have possibly felt that one string being tucked as he was busy reading into the future. And considering how hard people complained about TFA just being a rehash of ANH I'm legitimately puzzled why people are now complaining that Snoke ended up not being a copy of the emperor and instead went in a completely different narrative direction.[/sp]