Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

[QUOTE=darth-veger;52979794][sp] On the topic i laughed my ass off on the puppet Yoda, it looks kinda better then CGI Yoda but it looked incredibly out of place.[/sp] [/QUOTE] Gave me uncanny valley vibes, even though, I don't think that is possible really.

[QUOTE=Chrisordie;52979800]Gave me uncanny valley vibes, even though, I don't think that is possible really.[/QUOTE] [sp]I did really enjoy we had the goofy Yoda back, I want more silly Yoda who slaps people with his stick.[/sp]

why does everybody hate rogue one suddenly? I thought it was better than TFA

[QUOTE=darth-veger;52979808][sp]I did really enjoy we had the goofy Yoda back, I want more silly Yoda who slaps people with his stick.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]I enjoyed him being there, but the first time I saw him I was unsure if he was a puppet or a cgi thing. I dunno, it took me a little while to get used to how he looked, his face just looked kind of, off.[/sp]

[QUOTE=jonoPorter;52979846]why does everybody hate rogue one suddenly? I thought it was better than TFA[/QUOTE] Rouge one hate has been there for awhile. Personally I liked it.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52977972][sp]How is Luke projecting his image with the force stupid when that's literally an ability which ascended force users have had since the VERY FIRST FILM in the franchise ? The film goes out of its way to establish that lifting rocks with your mind is baby shit and the real power of the force lies in how it enables its user to project themselves onto the cosmos, which is inherently one of the most powerful states of being one can achieve for fairly evident reasons.[/sp] [sp]The kickass teamup was yet another time where the film utilizes its themes of converging ideals and conflicting methods. Ultimately Rey and Kylo want the same thing, they want to find a place for themselves, and they initially both wanted to live up to their heritage, but Rey decided to honor history whereas Kylo just wants to raze everything and rebuild it all in his image. She's learning balance in her ambitions when Kylo willingly lost control.[/sp] [sp]And the master being a disillusioned, faithless old dirtbag is an ancient trope of the genre. It's often an integral part of adventure stories because it establishes conflict and helps as a means to convey themes of legacy, regret and hubris. Saying it doesn't work for an adventure film is completely going against the conventions of adventure films.[/sp] [sp]And did you miss the part where Leia literally crippled now and old and has completely given command over to Poe Dameron, telling what is left of the resistance to follow his lead ? She's not a prominent character anymore. She survived but she was clearly slated for a laid back role which will interact well with Carrie Fisher's unfortunate passing.[/sp] [/QUOTE] [sp]I'd be fine with Luke projecting himself, were it not used as an action set-piece. Ben and Luke talking was terrific, but the set-up I didn't like. I didn't see a reason why Luke had to be there 'in person', when the whole film we'd had Ben and Rey conversing through the Force. Talking to Leia and giving her a memento of Han's I could get behind, but the whole setup felt like it had to happen because it's the end of the film and not something that organically developed. Luke could have spoken when Ben and Rey clashed after defeating the Praetorian Guard. You'd have the poetry of Luke in a throne-room again as the great evil is overthrown, and it could play into your second point by interjecting the figure that is so pivotal in both of their personal stories. The one who drove Ben away, and the one Rey seeks to live up to and honour.[/sp] [sp]I'm fine with a disillusioned and smaller-than-life legend. I love that trope. But I felt like it was forced upon Luke just to generate drama, and not something that organically happened as the character developed. In the OT we saw Luke's highs and his lows. And his low points developed him as a character, they didn't become his character. Luke thinking he can save his friends in Cloud City and being punished doesn't suddenly turn him into a coward afraid of taking risks, and Luke nearly killing Vader is a huge moment for him. He comes back from that and is all the stronger for it. To suddenly reach that breaking-point after vague premonitions isn't like him at all. Luke doesn't give up on people, and even if he did for a moment, he wouldn't suddenly contemplate killing Ben in his sleep. You could have a wary Luke even, as he learns about the history of the Jedi Order, and he vows to not let that hubris swallow up him as it did the Jedi of the Republic. You could develop that story, and if you wanted a darker end for Luke, that vanity would catch up with him throughout the film. Not just in flashbacks across two films. It's a disservice to the Character.[/sp] [sp] I didn't pick up that Leia was crippled and injured. She was just sitting down in her scenes after waking up. We'd had her walking and shooting in scenes prior. I took the "what are you looking at me for?" scene to be a joke, because now was the time for action, and Poe was the man of the hour. It didn't seem like a full hand-over of authority to me though I suppose it was meant to be taken that way.[/sp] I should say that I slept on this, and thought about the film all day. Its highs are high, and its lows really are incredibly low. One step forward, two steps backwards is a net-loss in my book.

[QUOTE=jonoPorter;52979846]why does everybody hate rogue one suddenly? I thought it was better than TFA[/QUOTE] As with every modern Star Wars film it seems, its got tons of haters and lovers. I personally enjoyed it more than TFA too though it's characters did suck compared.

[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;52979429]Ok, this is bullshit. You are telling me that after a whole movie and supplementary materials about [sp]an antagonist who was around as early as the time of the Galactic Republic, who knew Leila and Han on such a personal level he could corrupt their child from birth, who got scarred in such a way we can't even figure out his species and who had a rather unusual vision about the Force ... after all of this build-up and speculation about his plan and his future role, killing said antagonist in the MIDDLE MOVIE of the trilogy was a GOOD move on the writers' part?[/sp] I mean, maybe these are my personal preferences speaking, but can't you even just consider that [I]maybe[/I] this narrative move was an ass pull on the writers' part in order to "shock" you in a cheap way instead of the clever writing technique you are making out all this bloody mess to be? Again, just [B]MAYBE[/B].[/QUOTE] [sp]The original trilogy also didn't really specify how Vader fell to the dark side and it worked better that way, because it left enough of an aura of mystery around the emperor to allow the viewer to figure out for themselves how he could have possibly pulled a move like corrupting Anakin. Considering the actual explanation we got was "Anakin just wanted pussy", it was better off left unexplained. As for Snoke, he's a powerful psychic as is demonstrated many times. He didn't have to PERSONALLY know Kylo Ren, or his parents, in order to corrupt him. He seemingly just entered contact with Ben Solo because he had such a strong force potential and Luke's training enabled him to do so more easily. The fact Han and Leia both accuse Snoke of causing their son to fall to the dark side is also a dubious claim in some ways because neither of them are aware of Luke's own involvement in this, seeing as Luke has kept it a secret that it was his own brief dip into the dark side that caused Kylo Ren to go over the edge, not Snoke's bullshit. Ben just tried to defend himself in a perceived attempt on his life and then sought help because he figured there was nothing for him to gain in the Jedi. In short, no, we don't need it explained. It being left vague makes for a better villain because explaining it would be disappointing. No matter what the explanation is it would either be disappointingly mundane or infuriatingly over the top, with the prequels somehow managing both at the same time for the emperor. Yes, Snoke has been around for a long time. Yes, he's old as fuck. That's all we really need to know about him, everything else can be deduced from the way he's presented, ie he's smart enough and crafty enough to have remained in hiding for a long time AND to have seemingly created the first order by himself. The film sitting you down and taking you on a little ride to explain how mister osteoporosis got his scars and his powers would ultimately be a pointless exercise in tedium.[/sp]

I don't get why [sp]they included Yoda but didn't have the decency to at least bring in Obi Wan arguably someone more important to Luke and more sympathetic to his struggle and failure, since he failed Anakin as Luke failed Ben. Is Disney really that much against the Prequels to not even include Ewan to include an Obi Wan cameo?[/sp]

[QUOTE=redBadger;52979906]I don't get why [sp]they included Yoda but didn't have the decency to at least bring in Obi Wan arguably someone more important to Luke and more sympathetic to his struggle and failure, since he failed Anakin as Luke failed Ben. Is Disney really that much against the Prequels to not even include Ewan to include an Obi Wan cameo?[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Yoda was Luke's master and arguably a much more prominent figure for him by that point in his life, especially since Luke has essentially given himself the task of replacing Yoda as a teacher to a new generation and failed spectacularly. Luke has already dealt and coped with Kenobi's deceptive nature and the fate of his father, so there isn't much more for him to see on that front. His failure to live up to Yoda's teachings, however, is still an open wound that he seeks to mend in this film, so it's much more relevant. Also frankly the least they mention Obi Wan's relation to Anakin in the prequels the better because the way they portrayed that was nothing short of disastrous.[/sp]

I'm sorry but [sp]I cant take this film seriously when the main premise doesn't make ANY logical sense. Are you telling me that the First Order, which is apparently now completely controlling the Galaxy, had no spare Star Destroyers to just hyperspace into range of the Resistance ships retreating, possibly from another angle? Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that them "keeping out of range" makes any fucking sense? FFS The Star Destroyers following them could have just hyperspaced out, then hyperspaced back in CLOSER and in kill range of the Resistance ships. It doesn't make any sense.[/sp] [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;52979897][sp]The original trilogy also didn't really specify how Vader fell to the dark side and it worked better that way, because it left enough of an aura of mystery around the emperor to allow the viewer to figure out for themselves how he could have possibly pulled a move like corrupting Anakin. Considering the actual explanation we got was "Anakin just wanted pussy", it was better off left unexplained. As for Snoke, he's a powerful psychic as is demonstrated many times. He didn't have to PERSONALLY know Kylo Ren, or his parents, in order to corrupt him. He seemingly just entered contact with Ben Solo because he had such a strong force potential and Luke's training enabled him to do so more easily. The fact Han and Leia both accuse Snoke of causing their son to fall to the dark side is also a dubious claim in some ways because neither of them are aware of Luke's own involvement in this, seeing as Luke has kept it a secret that it was his own brief dip into the dark side that caused Kylo Ren to go over the edge, not Snoke's bullshit. Ben just tried to defend himself in a perceived attempt on his life and then sought help because he figured there was nothing for him to gain in the Jedi. In short, no, we don't need it explained. It being left vague makes for a better villain because explaining it would be disappointing. No matter what the explanation is it would either be disappointingly mundane or infuriatingly over the top, with the prequels somehow managing both at the same time for the emperor. Yes, Snoke has been around for a long time. Yes, he's old as fuck. That's all we really need to know about him, everything else can be deduced from the way he's presented, ie he's smart enough and crafty enough to have remained in hiding for a long time AND to have seemingly created the first order by himself. The film sitting you down and taking you on a little ride to explain how mister osteoporosis got his scars and his powers would ultimately be a pointless exercise in tedium.[/sp][/QUOTE] This logic works in a vacuum but when there's already been a story taking place before this with a big bad we sort of need to know [sp]where this new big bad came from/where he was this whole time. it really doesn't make sense otherwise and is immersion breaking.[/sp] [editline]15th December 2017[/editline] If someone can actually answer these 3 questions I'll change my opinion of the movie: [sp] Why didn't the FO call in another Star Destroyer fleet to pincer them from another angle, or just come in closer and in range? Why didn't Snoke's fleet hyperspace out, then back in much closer range? We already know that you can hyperspace out within hundreds of meters of your target, Han did it with the Falcon last movie. Why didn't they send in a massive amount of TIE Fighters? Ren wiped out their fighters, and the "we can't support you from this range" line is complete bollocks because in EP4 we see the inferior Empire TIE Fighters doing patrols thousands of miles from the Death Star. Since we know the FO TIEs are better than the Empire ones, we know they absolutely had the operating range to go in and fuck up the last Resistance ships.[/sp]

The same reason [sp]the empire didn't send their entire armada against every last occurrence of rebellion despite being physically capable of doing so, back when they were around. The plot would not happen if they were that competent and the heroes need to have a weakness in the enemy to exploit.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52979989]The same reason [sp]the empire didn't send their entire armada against every last occurrence of rebellion despite being physically capable of doing so, back when they were around. The plot would not happen if they were that competent and the heroes need to have a weakness in the enemy to exploit.[/sp][/QUOTE] That's not an answer. In ANH the Empire sends their most powerful super weapon to snuff out the Rebels. They found their base and do not see them as a threat, they simply want to make an example of them. In this film [sp]They've been desperately trying to snuff out the last remnants of the Resistance, chasing them all over, and let them form an escape plan while they twiddle their thumbs when they have them dead to rights.[/sp] At least in ESB they make it clear they're not fucking around anymore when they find their base again.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52979897][sp]The original trilogy also didn't really specify how Vader fell to the dark side and it worked better that way, because it left enough of an aura of mystery around the emperor to allow the viewer to figure out for themselves how he could have possibly pulled a move like corrupting Anakin. Considering the actual explanation we got was "Anakin just wanted pussy", it was better off left unexplained. As for Snoke, he's a powerful psychic as is demonstrated many times. He didn't have to PERSONALLY know Kylo Ren, or his parents, in order to corrupt him. He seemingly just entered contact with Ben Solo because he had such a strong force potential and Luke's training enabled him to do so more easily. The fact Han and Leia both accuse Snoke of causing their son to fall to the dark side is also a dubious claim in some ways because neither of them are aware of Luke's own involvement in this, seeing as Luke has kept it a secret that it was his own brief dip into the dark side that caused Kylo Ren to go over the edge, not Snoke's bullshit. Ben just tried to defend himself in a perceived attempt on his life and then sought help because he figured there was nothing for him to gain in the Jedi. In short, no, we don't need it explained. It being left vague makes for a better villain because explaining it would be disappointing. No matter what the explanation is it would either be disappointingly mundane or infuriatingly over the top, with the prequels somehow managing both at the same time for the emperor. Yes, Snoke has been around for a long time. Yes, he's old as fuck. That's all we really need to know about him, everything else can be deduced from the way he's presented, ie he's smart enough and crafty enough to have remained in hiding for a long time AND to have seemingly created the first order by himself. The film sitting you down and taking you on a little ride to explain how mister osteoporosis got his scars and his powers would ultimately be a pointless exercise in tedium.[/sp][/QUOTE] It appears we have very different opinions on the matter, so I think it's better to let the matter rest. I just want to say that for me vagueness is not a fine substitute for a good narrative. I'd also like to argue that Anakin's fall was handled extremely well in the series, but all my arguments would come from anywhere but the movies, so I'd feel like I was cheating or something

Also I want to point out that by this point in the OT [sp]our 3 main cast members were incredible best friends and we worried for them because of how close they all were. In this trilogy 2 of our main cast members just met eachother. At the end of the second film. Finn and Rey are barely even close anymore, same with Poe and Finn. They didn't do anything with eachother these films. I was really excited to see these characters play off of eachother but the 3 main protags barely interacted[/sp]

[QUOTE=jonoPorter;52979846]why does everybody hate rogue one suddenly? I thought it was better than TFA[/QUOTE] TFA is pretty meh at best and prequel-grade at worst. It has wayyy more "Things I know" and forced homages than Rogue One. Yes, Rogue One had odd character development, and yes, it kinda changes the Bothan thing, but it probably was the best Star [I]Wars[/I] film to talk about the [I]War[/I] part of a [I]War[/I] for a series called Star [I][B]WARS[/B][/I].

Rotten User Score. [img]https://i.imgur.com/Fq3qsa0.png[/img]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52980069]TFA is pretty meh at best and prequel-grade at worst. It has wayyy more "Things I know" and forced homages than Rogue One. Yes, Rogue One had odd character development, and yes, it kinda changes the Bothan thing, but it probably was the best Star [I]Wars[/I] film to talk about the [I]War[/I] part of a [I]War[/I] for a series called Star [I][B]WARS[/B][/I].[/QUOTE] It didn't do shit to the Bothan thing tho, cause the Bothans stole the Second Death Star plans. How many times are people gonna get that wrong?

-snip, late-

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/f105H4V.png[/IMG] [quote]While the critic score puts[I] The [/I][I]Last Jedi[/I] at the top of the franchise food chain, the audience score tells a very different story. When examining that metric, only two [I]Star Wars[/I] movies have lower scores than the newest installment.[/quote] Source: [URL]http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/12/15/star-wars-last-jedi-rotten-tomatoes-audience-score-low/[/URL]

Doesn't matter, it'll still make a billion dollars because Star Wars™

I wonder if the planned Rian Johnson trilogy will still be helmed by Rian Johnson.

Probably a lot of metabombing going on tbf

I'll trust it after a week or two

Right now it's tied with Episode 1. To put it on a grander scale Justice League and Suicide Squad scored higher. I'd say it's sitting at this either because of some decisive things that happened in the film and it is not sitting well with casual filmgoers/fans or it's bots.

[QUOTE=Fort83;52980121]I feel like it's going to be a similar situation with TLJ as it was with TFA. At first people say its the best thing since sliced bread because of hype and nostalgia. But after a few weeks they realize it wasn't as good as they initially thought.[/QUOTE] Or maybe it'll be like Empire Strikes Back where it was [url=http://www.starwars.com/news/critical-opinion-the-empire-strikes-back-original-reviews]surprisingly polarizing[/url] at release and took a long time to actually reach the kind of universal appraisal it benefits from today. And a lot of the criticisms brought up by critics at the time apply a lot to TLJ as well. It's also bizarre to read reviews from the 80s already talk about a 9-part saga. Even more bizarre to read reviews which struggles to remember now iconic characters, like this one which [url=https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-wars-empire-strikes-back-752672]somehow mixes up Yoda and Boba Fett.[/url]

What is even the criticism of the movie? I watched it last night, it wasn't flawless but it was pretty fucking great, in my opinion. It's up there with Empire, though I'll need another watching (of both) to decide which is superior.

I know SW is loved by millions but as somebody that can give or take it, seeing it plastered everywhere on everything imaginable is really frustrating. It's great that there's a big scifi film everyone can love and enjoy with the rest of your family but the sheer saturation of this series is... kind of boring? Every move it plays is a safe one. Alas it's unavoidable and you're labelled as a Salty McGee if you don't like it. What's the general appeal for those of you who really love the series?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52980155]Or maybe it'll be like Empire Strikes Back where it was [url=http://www.starwars.com/news/critical-opinion-the-empire-strikes-back-original-reviews]surprisingly polarizing[/url] at release and took a long time to actually reach the kind of universal appraisal it benefits from today. And a lot of the criticisms brought up by critics at the time apply a lot to TLJ as well. It's also bizarre to read reviews from the 80s already talk about a 9-part saga.[/QUOTE] That's not even true though. ESB featured one of the tightest and best written Star Wars plots. TLJ [sp]features one of the most non sensical and absurd since TPM[/sp]

What visionary thought it was appropriate to show Luke Skywalker [sp]pathetically slurping a naked mole rat's boobs? Those tits were too human looking[/sp] :s: