Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

the dice were hilarious. [sp]the idea that luke was making extra effort during an already impossibly hard force projection to project some little dice into someones hand and keeping it there (even briefly after he already "died").[/sp]

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52985455]the dice were hilarious. [sp]the idea that luke was making extra effort during an already impossibly hard force projection to project some little dice into someones hand and keeping it there (even briefly after he already "died").[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Eh, I doubt those tiny things required that much effort[/sp]

[sp]what he was doing generally required so much effort that he fucking became one with the force afterward. he was at his complete limits, but he still made the effort to keep the dice there. its so ridiculous and not a priority. the movie was peppered with strange stuff like this. it was loose. the dice itself was an unnecessary callback to a minor, minor, minor prop from the first film that nobody had ever given thought or considered important, but they made it this powerful commemorative token of han now. some thing that nobody cared about before.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52985467][sp]what he was doing generally required so much effort that he fucking became one with the force afterward. he was at his complete limits, but he still made the effort to keep the dice there. its so ridiculous and not a priority. the movie was peppered with strange stuff like this. it was loose[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Considering Yoda caused a lightning strike while being a Force Ghost, I'm pretty sure Luke could keep the dice there after he died, probably even easier since his body didn't have to do that whole, keep living thing[/sp]

It was pretty slapstick but that didn't spoil the tone at critical moments. It was good [sp]Although luke's death felt utterly pointless. The force projection trick was a cool way to avoid having to kill him and then he just died anyway. :downs:[/sp]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52985154][sp]Apparently in Rogue One, when Jyn is reading off the data in the tower, she mentions 'hyperspace tracking'. I wonder if that was on purpose an Easter egg you'd only get after seeing TLJ. The movie had already been written[/sp][/QUOTE] [Sp] they had to track leia to tatooine somehow [/sp] yey plotholes and shoehorns

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52985445]What if [sp]Snoke isn't dead and that was a projection? We know force projections can be solid (the dice) and Luke changed his appearance. Nah that would be dumb[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Toying around with the idea a bit: Snoke is proven to be powerful enough to survive those cross-galaxy connections. Technically speaking, trusting his appentice would theoretically be the last thing he would want to do, especially if said apprentice is unstable.[/sp] Also, in regards to the upcoming Rian Johnson trilogy: [sp]Does anyone else think that broom-boy will be the protagonist?[/sp]

[QUOTE=Sableye;52985476][Sp] they had to track leia to tatooine somehow [/Sp] yey plotholes and shoehorns[/QUOTE] [sp]How was it a plot hole? Vader was close enough to slap a tracking device on the Tantive IV[/sp]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52985469][sp]Considering Yoda caused a lightning strike while being a Force Ghost, I'm pretty sure Luke could keep the dice there after he died, probably even easier since his body didn't have to do that whole, keep living thing[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]it just seems like you're making excuses for the bizarre unnecessary things the movie did to its own detriment. yoda causing a lightning strike as a ghost while doing absolutely nothing else has nothing at all to do with luke giving extra effort to some dice while at his complete force limits. just logically dude, it doesn't make sense. when you're at your limits you prioritize the big important things and small stuff falls to the wayside, you don't go 'well im doing the massive monumental task, might as well juggle this other small stuff on top! that's not how it works. this isn't just me nitpicking, it's one example of many strange things the movie did.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52985489][sp]it just seems like you're making excuses for the bizarre unnecessary things the movie did to its own detriment. yoda causing a lightning strike as a ghost while doing absolutely nothing else has nothing at all to do with luke giving extra effort to some dice while at his complete force limits. just logically dude, it doesn't make sense. when you're at your limits you prioritize the big important things and small stuff falls to the wayside, you don't go 'well im doing the massive monumental task, might as well juggle this other small stuff on top! that's not how it works. this isn't just me nitpicking, it's one example of many strange things the movie did.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]It's the force, you don't need to explain shit[/sp]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52985491][sp]It's the force, you don't need to explain shit[/sp][/QUOTE] you can't just handwave logic and weird decisions away with 'the force'. you don't need to defend every single little thing the movie did even if you liked it. [sp]i get that the force is basically magic but human beings aren't. luke suffers from exertion and the human condition just like anybody else[/sp]

[QUOTE=Sableye;52985476][Sp] they had to track leia to tatooine somehow [/sp] yey plotholes and shoehorns[/QUOTE] [sp]Her ship was damaged and still undergoing repairs in Rogue One and A New Hope. They tracked it because it was leaking.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Damjen;52985499][sp]Her ship was damaged and still undergoing repairs in Rogue One and A New Hope. They tracked it because it was leaking.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Is that stated in a canon source?[/sp]

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52985489][sp]it just seems like you're making excuses for the bizarre unnecessary things the movie did to its own detriment. yoda causing a lightning strike as a ghost while doing absolutely nothing else has nothing at all to do with luke giving extra effort to some dice while at his complete force limits. just logically dude, it doesn't make sense. when you're at your limits you prioritize the big important things and small stuff falls to the wayside, you don't go 'well im doing the massive monumental task, might as well juggle this other small stuff on top! that's not how it works. this isn't just me nitpicking, it's one example of many strange things the movie did.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Luke said he will haunt Kylo just like Han does if he strikes him down. The dice represent that.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52985498]you can't just handwave logic and weird decisions away with 'the force'. you don't need to defend every single little thing the movie did even if you liked it. [sp]i get that the force is basically magic but human beings aren't. luke suffers from exertion and the human condition just like anybody else[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]and he died from projecting.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52985501][sp]Is that stated in a canon source?[/sp][/QUOTE] From a Certain Point of View, first story "Raymus".

[sp]Really liked half of it, really hated the other half. All the stuff with Kylo, Rey, Luke and Snoke was interesting and well-directed. The resistance/Casino planet stuff was prequel tier or worse. BB8 rapid firing coins at a guard was straight out of the prequels. Rose's character was inconsistent. "Man, I really hate this city. Everyone here is a warmonger, I want to destroy it just for that." A few hours later. "We can't win by destroying what we hate, we have to protect what we love." There wasn't any character development that triggered her change in opinion. Also the Porgs are up there with Jar Jar Binks in terms of annoying shit shoved in to widen demographic appeal. The minutes-long forced humor between Hux and Poe at the beginning removed any tension I should have felt about the resistance's impending destruction. I'm surprised they killed off Snoke. It's wierd he's likely to go without any explanation, but the Rey and Kylo dynamic is pretty great. It seriously does feel like two different movies. Some great shots/directing during the final confrontation especially.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Damjen;52985511]From a Certain Point of View, first story "Raymus".[/QUOTE] Thanks

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52985423]how about when [sp]leia force flew into a gaping, blown up room, and someone on the other end just opened a door and let her in did the exploded room have a space forcefield? do i just not get how this works?[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Pretty sure that there was an airlock inbetween the hallway and the room that was intact after the explosion[/sp]

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52985371]Not sure why people keep saying [sp]Luke is dead. He became one with the Force. Just as Kenobi and Yoda did. He will return. Maybe not in the physical form we are use to, but he's not gone forever.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Because you have to die for that to happen, and most people's issue is WHEN and HOW it happened, not that it happened at all, real talk it would have happened in the third movie if it didn't happen now.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Damjen;52985503][sp]Luke said he will haunt Kylo just like Han does if he strikes him down. The dice represent that.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]how? kylo didn't even see that, and also they quickly disappeared. that seems like a false equivalence to me[/sp]

I loved a lot of things about it and I'm generally glad that the biggest problems show up when you break it down, and imo don't ruin the movie while you're watching it. A story thing I really liked was that [sp]Kylo Ren didn't go too hard to one side. He was willing to kill Snoke and fight with Rey but he didn't instantly become a good guy either, and he seemed really genuine when he was asking Rey to join him.[/sp] The things I didn't like during the movie was stuff like sappy or clunky dialogue in places, maybe some pacing issues, plus [sp]Canto Bight felt disconnected from the rest of the movie, not getting into the plot hole.[/sp] Obviously when you do deconstruct it the [sp]plot holes[/sp] are pretty disappointing when you break the movie down, I think other people will do that better than I can.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52985578][sp]how? kylo didn't even see that, and also they quickly disappeared. that seems like a false equivalence to me[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Kylo knows they are Han's dice and then they fade away just like Luke did. Enough to consider it Luke screwing with him after death.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52981806]regarding rey's parents [sp]kylo was 100% lying to her. he was manipulating her to join the dark side, guys. the classic technique is tear them down, build them back up. he executed that to a t. 'you're trash, you're not important, nobody cares about you. except me, i care. join me.' i get the idea of the force just being strong in random people of no specific lineage, proving anyone can be a jedi, but that whole idea is being fulfilled with all those kids at the end of the film gazing at the stars. rey's parents will have something to do with all this and they weren't nobodies. they're just drawing it out so it can be another twist in the 3rd film. you don't really think they would shoot their wad already do you?[/sp] [editline]16th December 2017[/editline] [sp]do you really think they did that whole rey duplication mirror scene and then didn't reveal her parents for no reason? the information was purposefully being withheld from her. because it's important.[/sp] [editline]16th December 2017[/editline] [sp]to believe otherwise, you'd have to just take the word of a sith lord. we still haven't seen them, rey hasn't remembered them. you'd have to trust the villain is being truthful. cmon.[/sp][/QUOTE] I think you're really missing out on some important characterisation [sp]and it's concerning Kylo, which is a shame because Adam Driver's performance was one of the strongest things about the film IMO. Your explanation for the interaction makes sense if you view Kylo as a straight villain who is trying to groom Rey to get him to join her. I don't think that's the case, at least not by the time that they actually discuss her parents. Sure in the lift he says, "I know who your parents are and I'll tell you", and it seems like a weak attempt to tempt her to the dark side, which she's immediately repulsed by because she sees through it. The mirror sequence does seem to withhold information, but afterwards Rey mentions never feeling so alone, so I think that while it wasn't obvious to the audience, she knew then that she essentially had no special lineage, and it took the confrontation with Kylo for her to admit that. I'd argue that there are two reasons for the sequence being ambiguous: 1. The information was withheld so they could have a reverse "I am your father" twist with Kylo confronting Rey. 2. The information wasn't actually withheld from Rey, it just looked that way because she wanted her parents, and then herself, to be special. But when she dips her toe in the dark side of the force, and peeks beyond the veil, she doesn't see her fantisised parents, she just sees Rey, because that's all she is. Kylo may have dangled the carrot initially, I think still believing that he had to play the role of the dutiful sith apprentice, but after the battle, when he confronts her on the issue again, it's completely different. He's not playing that role anymore, and to me it seemed that he was just desperately trying to make her realise the connection they both share as abandoned children. Kylo himself feeling abandoned by his parents to be trained by Luke, only for Luke to seemingly turn on him as well. And Rey literally being abandoned and sold off as a child.They're essentially both sides of the same coin. Both characters are desperate to know their place in the world, are desperate for a role model, and a purpose. Kylo found that in Snoke/Vader and the First Order, while Rey found the Rebellion and Luke Skywalker. Only neither group are capable of giving them answers, and both let them down.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Damjen;52985602][sp]Kylo knows they are Han's dice and then they fade away just like Luke did. Enough to consider it Luke screwing with him after death.[/sp][/QUOTE] kylo never saw that dude

[QUOTE=Splarg!;52985593] A story thing I really liked was that [sp]Kylo Ren didn't go too hard to one side. He was willing to kill Snoke and fight with Rey but he didn't instantly become a good guy either, and he seemed really genuine when he was asking Rey to join him.[/sp] .[/QUOTE] [sp]Kylo seems like he just wants recognition, Luke almost killed him, Snoke called him a failure, and Rey refused his offer. The kid can't get a break[/sp]

[QUOTE=Splarg!;52985593][sp]Canto Bight felt disconnected from the rest of the movie, not getting into the plot hole.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]what's the plot hole? like no joke im not seeing any plotholes, what exactly is and why is it a plothole?[/sp]

I quite liked the movie but [sp]the dice[/sp] felt out of place and were probably just there for [sp]a link to the Han Solo movie, I'd be surprised if they didn't show up there[/sp]

[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;52985628]I quite liked the movie but [sp]the dice[/sp] felt out of place and were probably just there for [sp]a link to the Han Solo movie, I'd be surprised if they didn't show up there[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]It is already canon that those are the dice he used to win the Falcon[/sp]

the dumbest part of that planet was [sp]their comments after the animal chase. "we've done minor damage to an insanely rich city that'll be fixed in a day. it was worth it!" "no, we got a few rat horses just outside city bounds in a small field next to a cliff and they'll be scooped back up immediately. NOW it was worth it!" what the fuck are you idiots talking about? it was just cringe ass dialouge[/sp]