Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

I confess that during the first 24 hours after watching TLJ, I was bummed. At first I loved it, but as I thought more of it, and let poisonous Reddit and Facepunch posts corrupt my mind I was saddened by the film. I even caught myself thinking it was worse than the PT. Now the past two days my girlfriend and I have watched Episode 1 and 2 to complete her first viewing of the saga (we didn't make it in time for TLJ due to exams, so we prioritized OT and TFA), and I've gotta say it makes me appreciate TLJ way more. Yes, it has a lot of flaws. Many unnecessary sequences and some of it was all too reminiscent of the prequels. But it is BY FAR not the worst Star Wars movie. It doesn't ruin the saga. There is a lot I disagree with, but watching Episode 1 and 2 there is even more I disagree with. This is coming from a fan who previously enjoyed the prequels having grown up with them. I despise most of Episode 1 and 2 now, but still enjoy Revenge. The Last Jedi is a wonderful addition to the saga, and I hope more will grow to enjoy it more than initially.

[QUOTE=can man;52993102]I really wished it would be good. I legit could not take this movie serious. It was just a parody of itself. !Spoiler! However [sp]Luke's death scene was really good, despite being another throwback[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]How was his death a throwback? Nothing related to it has been done before[/sp]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52993224][sp]How was his death a throwback? Nothing related to it has been done before[/sp][/QUOTE] I'm assuming he means the [sp]binary suns[/sp] but that's a super petty thing to get caught up on. It was the perfect imagery for the scene.

I feel like [sp]Canto Bight would have been better with podracing instead of the random animals[/sp]

[QUOTE=optimussentinel;52993376]I feel like [sp]Canto Bight would have been better with podracing instead of the random animals[/sp][/QUOTE] Finn should have [sp]shouted "now this is Pod-racing!" during the animal get-away scene since the movie didn't have enough humor already[/sp]

[sp]Honestly when I first saw the track I thought it was going to be podracing[/sp]

Man, if it was [sp]a podrace[/sp] it would have been SO much cooler. And then we wouldn't need that stupid, drawn out scene where [sp]they ride the horses and go "this is the REAL victory" while their friends have 6 hours to live. They could have helped the little kids, gotten picked up by Benicio Del Toro, and gotten out of there. And then you could have them be all disappointed, like "man, it sucks we couldn't have hit em where it hurts", and then Del Toro could be like "don't get too down about it" and show them that everyone there made weapons for the Resistance too.[/sp] I never thought I'd ever say this, but [sp]a podrace would have made this movie WAY better.[/sp]

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;52993416]Man, if it was [sp]a podrace[/sp] it would have been SO much cooler. I never thought I'd ever say this, but [sp]a podrace would have made this movie WAY better.[/sp][/QUOTE] Now that I think of it, having the [sp]Casino trembling, and then hearing the sound of a Sebulba-like Podracer would be fucking amazing. And Rose being all like hyped up because Podraces are these legendary illegal sports now. Would have loved it. [/sp]

[QUOTE=Blueleaf;52992942][URL="http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes/"]Star Wars: The Last Jedi Deleted Scenes: Everything We Know (includes some spoilers)[/URL][/QUOTE] [SP]Wow, so Admiral Holdo was going to be an even WORSE character. She was already really fucking atrocious in the first place.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Blueleaf;52992942][URL="http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes/"]Star Wars: The Last Jedi Deleted Scenes: Everything We Know (includes some spoilers)[/URL][/QUOTE] Awful pop up ads on my phone with this site [editline]20th December 2017[/editline] [Media]https://youtu.be/EIY-PsHrj9A[/media]

[QUOTE=redBadger;52993516]Awful pop up ads on my phone with this site[/QUOTE] yeah that site is basically my justification to having adblock on 24/7

I really love Mark to death, like he's one of my heroes, but I feel like he isn't the best guy to judge Luke. I mean, he was really disappointed that Luke didn't join the dark side. I feel like he reads Luke wrong, to be honest and I felt like the direction they went with Luke here was not only refreshing but made the series more morally grey. Also, Yoda was a "broken man" too after his incompetence led to everything going to shit, so jedis do certainly give up, I mean shit, isn't the reason the Sith manage to stick around so long is because of jedis giving up?

[QUOTE=redBadger;52993516]Awful pop up ads on my phone with this site [editline]20th December 2017[/editline] [Media]https://youtu.be/EIY-PsHrj9A[/media][/QUOTE] Mark Hamill also wanted Luke to be a deus-ex machina who saves Finn and Rey at the end of TFA, only to turn evil for no reason in Episode 8. I love the man, but he didn't invent the character of Luke Skywalker. He didn't write or direct the original movies. And that's not to say that an actor has NO influence on how a character can grow or evolve, but it really feels like he's claiming a bit too much ownership over Luke. Like he's upset that they gave him character flaws and struggles instead of making him a super cool space wizard who's been kicking ass and taking names for the past 30 years. Luke's given a pretty obvious [sp]redemption arc in TLJ[/sp], and it's kinda obvious Mark Hamill just doesn't like it because he doesn't get to be the main character any more (even though Luke is [sp]easily the most interesting/important facet of the entire film[/sp]). I keep seeing people (not necessarily anyone here, mostly on Facebook) post videos of Mark Hamill criticizing the new series for not being The Luke Show, as if it's definitive evidence that these new movies are bad. Harrison Ford always thought these movies were dumb bullshit, but you're never gonna see someone say "see, Empire Strikes Back is shit because they didn't kill off Han Solo like how he wanted". [editline]20th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52993564]I really love Mark to death, like he's one of my heroes, but I feel like he isn't the best guy to judge Luke. I mean, he was really disappointed that Luke didn't join the dark side. I feel like he reads Luke wrong, to be honest and I felt like the direction they went with Luke here was not only refreshing but made the series more morally grey. Also, Yoda was a "broken man" too after his incompetence led to everything going to shit, so jedis do certainly give up, I mean shit, isn't the reason the Sith manage to stick around so long is because of jedis giving up?[/QUOTE] I think his feelings on the matter are less "this is how I think Luke's character should evolve" and more "this is what would be fun for me to do on camera".

Also while I loved the film, one of my biggest issues with it is [sp] Ackbar's shit send off. What's even worse is apparently you can't think he's a proper character because of the trap meme, even though he had a huge presence in the Endor battle and recurrs a few times in the saga. Ackbar was awesome man... [/sp]

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52993564]I really love Mark to death, like he's one of my heroes, but I feel like he isn't the best guy to judge Luke. I mean, he was really disappointed that Luke didn't join the dark side. I feel like he reads Luke wrong, to be honest and I felt like the direction they went with Luke here was not only refreshing but made the series more morally grey. Also, Yoda was a "broken man" too after his incompetence led to everything going to shit, so jedis do certainly give up, I mean shit, isn't the reason the Sith manage to stick around so long is because of jedis giving up?[/QUOTE] Not to mention Mark Hamill probably isn't even as upset as people make are deliberately trying to make him look. I mean maybe he is but you can literally make anyone look like they're miserable and dead inside if you can grab some sad music, some footage of them with a blank expression, and some quotes of them being critical of whatever it is they're doing. Doesn't mean Mark's dead inside or not enjoying himself or whatever bullshit. The most annoying one is that quote people shove in these stupid videos where he goes "If you're expecting to go in to this and recapture your childhood, you're going to be disappointed." That's not evidence that the movie is bad that's the fucking [I]point of the movie[/I] in the first place

Admiral Ackbar and pink haired Laura Dern should have been combined to create one new character called Admiral Ackbar

Laura Dern character shouldn't exist, but instead (said many times before) [sp]Leia or Ackbar should have been the one to sacrifice themselves to fuck up the Supremacy. Alternatively both, as a send off to both the actors passing. Would be emotional and also fitting as they both would willingly go down with the ship together and help the Resistance. [/sp]

[QUOTE=Treznor;52993675]Laura Dern character shouldn't exist, but instead (said many times before) [sp]Leia or Ackbar should have been the one to sacrifice themselves to fuck up the Supremacy. Alternatively both, as a send off to both the actors passing. Would be emotional and also fitting as they both would willingly go down with the ship together and help the Resistance. [/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]How would they have done it with Leia? A sound alike and visual double?[/sp]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52993707][sp]How would they have done it with Leia? A sound alike and visual double?[/sp][/QUOTE] p sure he means in theory, like if it was possible to go back in time and change the script now

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;52993026]I wouldn't get excited. [IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/472d7d513d1c4cc951ea5bcbba43c6ef.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] It's worth putting out that he was called in at the last moment with BVS to save what he could and IIRC he didn't have much of a say over how JL went. He's going to be the head writer here. Argo is a great film.

Listening to Duel of the Fates again and holy shit is this song a perfect masterpiece. The choir really nailed this out of the park.

i one day wanted to know what the "Corn on the cob" choir was singing and took a quick trip to wikipedia it's apparently some gaelic legend loosely translated into sanskrit, or something

[QUOTE=redBadger;52993516] [Media]https://youtu.be/EIY-PsHrj9A[/media][/QUOTE] I completely agree with everything he says in this. I really hate the "morally gray middle ground" everything is going. I loved Star Wars because it was clear cut good vs evil, no in between. There were the Jedi who were righteous and good, and the Sith that were bad and evil. What they [sp]had Luke do in TLJ really makes Luke declaring himself a Jedi at the end of RotJ really hollow and moot, even if there was a recovery at the end of the film. His whole speech about how awful the Jedi were felt like it was just yelling at the audience for being Star Wars fans for the reasons I have.[/sp] The more I think about the TLJ, the less I like it.

I like that [sp]Leia survived. Sure, they'll have to pull some "oh, the General is at the MAIN base pulling the strings from afar" schtick, but let's be real, we ALL expected them to just kill her off after Carrie Fisher passed. Not only is it a subversion of expectations, but we get to see Leia just sort of ride into the sunset and remain a powerful presence in these stories, rather than just abruptly eating shit to make people get all choked up.[/sp] Also, I heard a pretty good rebuttal from a friend of mine regarding the whole "Laura Dern's character should have been replaced with Admiral Ackbar" thing; basically, viewers would [sp]have implicitly trusted Ackbar, while the whole point of Laura Dern being a newcomer is that we think she's a shady cunt until she sacrifices herself. So while it would have been cool to see Ackbar go all Gurren Lagann on the First Order fleet, we also would have been spending the entire movie wondering "jeez, why is Admiral Ackbar being such a cowardly asshole?"[/sp] [editline]21st December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52994416]I completely agree with everything he says in this. I really hate the "morally gray middle ground" everything is going. I loved Star Wars because it was clear cut good vs evil, no in between. There were the Jedi who were righteous and good, and the Sith that were bad and evil. What they [sp]had Luke do in TLJ really makes Luke declaring himself a Jedi at the end of RotJ really hollow and moot, even if there was a recovery at the end of the film. His whole speech about how awful the Jedi were felt like it was just yelling at the audience for being Star Wars fans for the reasons I have.[/sp] The more I think about the TLJ, the less I like it.[/QUOTE] But the whole point of [sp]Luke bitching and moaning about how bad the Jedi were is that he's WRONG. He's dwelling on the mistakes of the past rather than acknowledging all the good that came with them (hence Rey's line about how, even though the Jedi let the Empire happen, it was a Jedi who ended it all and saved Darth Vader's soul). The idea isn't that "there is no good, there is no bad, nothing matters", it's that there can be shades of bad in the good, the same way there can be shades of good in the bad. Darth Vader served the Empire because he truly believed he was bringing peace and order to the galaxy. The Jedi Order protected the galaxy, but forbid emotions like love. There's shades of grey, but at the end of the day, there's still GOOD and EVIL.[/sp] This is reiterated later, when we see [sp]Kylo Ren adopt that same "none'a dis matters" mindset, only to come to the logical conclusion that the only way to guarantee peace is by killing off anyone who doesn't fall into line and ruling everything with an iron fist.[/sp] It might as well be called [i][b]Star Wars Episode VIII: Man, Fuck Nihilism[/b][/i].

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;52994427] Also, I heard a pretty good rebuttal from a friend of mine regarding the whole "Laura Dern's character should have been replaced with Admiral Ackbar" thing; basically, viewers would [sp]have implicitly trusted Ackbar, while the whole point of Laura Dern being a newcomer is that we think she's a shady cunt until she sacrifices herself. So while it would have been cool to see Ackbar go all Gurren Lagann on the First Order fleet, we also would have been spending the entire movie wondering "jeez, why is Admiral Ackbar being such a cowardly asshole?"[/sp] [/QUOTE] While true, they could have just not had that [sp]fake traitor mutiny plotpoint at all and nothing of value would have been lost.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Cyan_Husky;52994450]While true, they could have just not had that [sp]fake traitor mutiny plotpoint at all and nothing of value would have been lost.[/sp][/QUOTE] Agreed. I still don't get why [sp]she couldn't just take Poe aside and say "listen, this is what we're doing, stop being a prick and undermining me"[/sp], especially since he's totally down with it once he finds out what's going on.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52993604]Also while I loved the film, one of my biggest issues with it is [sp] Ackbar's shit send off. What's even worse is apparently you can't think he's a proper character because of the trap meme, even though he had a huge presence in the Endor battle and recurrs a few times in the saga. Ackbar was awesome man... [/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]They most likely killed him off unceremoniously because his voice actor died before filming started, he did have one or two lines in TLJ but I could hear instantly that it was Tom Kane and not Erik Bauersfeld.[/sp]

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;52994459]Agreed. I still don't get why [sp]she couldn't just take Poe aside and say "listen, this is what we're doing, stop being a prick and undermining me"[/sp], especially since he's totally down with it once he finds out what's going on.[/QUOTE] [sp]Their plans were not mutually exclusive, Poe could've tried his way, which tbh would've been more rewarding, and if it failed gone with Holdo's. Remember the only reason Holdo's plan got exposed was that Fin and Rose didn't obey parking rules and ending up picking up some random evil dude instead of the noncharacter they were trying to find. Holdo keeping her plans from everyone, and a bunch of other things do feel pretty contrived tbh.[/sp]

I was expecting the reason to be [sp]Holdo knew there was a First Order spy on the ship and she didn't want to expose the plan until they'd been found, but no it was just "She was more interested in protecting the resistance than looking like a hero."[/sp]

Personally for me, Star Wars ended with the funeral of Darth Vader and Anakin joining Yoda and Obi-Wan's Force Ghosts. That's the end of everyone's character arcs from the OT and the PT. I'm not sure if it's from seeing the film only once but TFA just seems like a continuation for the sake of continuing. Making conflicts in the backstory rather than naturally progressing ones in the OT, because the OT wrapped up too neatly. Too much of the connection between the OT plot and the NT plot is told even with the old characters themselves running around. I don't know why I feel that why when I can see all the pieces are technically there, just not getting through to me. It's like with Dungeons & Dragons or similar games, especially more fatal games or playing with a killer GM. If none the original adventurers aren't involved with the adventure by the end, with new characters coming in just to keep all the players around the table in the game, there's hardly any satisfaction unless there's a really, REALLY good sense of passing the torch. I guess that's one of the big reasons why I feel the way I do. Luke didn't so much as pass the torch as much as both he and Rey ran so far away from the torch that it was honestly frustrating. Not to say there can't be any more stories in the Star Wars universe. But Luke, Leia, Han, the Rebellion, and the Empire end with the OT.