Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

As someone who grew up with the expanded universe and Luke’s reinvented Jedi Order this new trilogy has been utterly disappointing [sp]and I mean that literally with that scene of Luke milking the alien. The whole point of Luke’s Jedi Order was that he [i]learned[/i] from the flawed Jedi of Yoda and Obi-Wan’s era: Love is not forbidden, the force isn’t good or bad it’s how you use it etc. instead of Luke taking up the mantle of the Jedi and succeeding at doing that they took that accomplishment away from him and just as he learned that lesson, killed him off and gave it to Rey who still hasn’t undergone much of any painful character development like Anakin or Luke did. Don’t get me started on Admiral Gender Studies and that whole fiasco. For a movie that talks a lot about balance, TLJ went to the opposite extreme TFA did, where TFA took no risks, TLJ took too many risks. Having plot twists for the sake of plot twists is no better than having a plot heavy on melodrama, politics and wooden writing. Everyone keeps comparing this movie to ESB when it’s more comparable to AOTC.[/sp] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Untagged spoilers. Missed the thread title warning, somehow" - postal))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Gramophone;52994947]untagged spoilers.[/QUOTE] Speaking of untagged spoilers, one of the trending videos on Youtube is a very big spoiler in the title so now there's two reasons to never go there.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52994416]I completely agree with everything he says in this. I really hate the "morally gray middle ground" everything is going. I loved Star Wars because it was clear cut good vs evil, no in between. There were the Jedi who were righteous and good, and the Sith that were bad and evil. What they [sp]had Luke do in TLJ really makes Luke declaring himself a Jedi at the end of RotJ really hollow and moot, even if there was a recovery at the end of the film. His whole speech about how awful the Jedi were felt like it was just yelling at the audience for being Star Wars fans for the reasons I have.[/sp] The more I think about the TLJ, the less I like it.[/QUOTE] Having the Jedi be an all encompassing force for good and the Empire/Dark Jedi as moustache twirling villains is absolutely, painfully boring and honestly pretty limiting. Continuing down that path would result in nothing interesting ever really happening in Star Wars, just endless retreads of the plucky heroes against a horrible evil. To me Star Wars is at it's best when it acknowledges the grey areas. KotOR 2 was my favorite Star Wars game because it actually raised interesting points about how fucked up the Jedi are. Like, the Jedi are not only more powerful than everyone around them making each single jedi ridiculously dangerous but if Jedi are allowed to organize and train more Jedis then it only takes [I]one[/I] fuck-up to create an evil asshole capable of creating an entire empire. How many people would have an understandable contempt for both the Sith and the Jedi because they feel helpless in a conflict that affects them yet they are helplessly subject to the back and forth antics of the Jedi and the Sith they usually created themselves? That shit is what fascinates me the most about Star Wars. Discussing the merits of these religions that affect everyone and whether they should be allowed to exist. Playing as an Imperial Spy who tries to make the Empire a better place for everyone but ultimately still believes in the Empire. Finn himself as a character, ascending beyond just being a cannon fodder stormtrooper to, for the first time in the entire movie series, actually being [I]someone[/I] under the helmet. Moral complexity is my crack when it comes to writing. After a decade of RPGs and most games declaring morality to be a 1-0 binary system where you are either good or evil, and that's just according to what the designers TELL you is moral as opposed to your own beliefs, I can't get enough of writing that says, hey, maybe nobody is 100 percent factually right in this universe and you and another person might completely disagree on who is in the right and who is in the wrong.

[QUOTE=Gramophone;52994947]As someone who grew up with the expanded universe and Luke’s reinvented Jedi Order this new trilogy has been utterly disappointing and I mean that literally [sp]with that scene of Luke milking the alien. The whole point of Luke’s Jedi Order was that he [i]learned[/i] from the flawed Jedi of Yoda and Obi-Wan’s era[/sp][/QUOTE] Genuinely curious but don't you think that's such a boring predictable way to go? I mean, I've never read the EU but before this trilogy if I had to make up what happened it would be that. That's not much of a story. It's nice from a mythology perspective to imagine that's what Luke does but it doesn't lend to a story very well? I don't really get the issue with [sp]milking the alien. The point of that scene is he's ignoring Rey. She's built him up in her mind as this great Jedi legend (mirroring exactly how fans feel). She gets there and he throws away the thing she worked hard to bring him, he's rude, he doesn't demonstrate any Force ability and he milks a disgusting creature infront of her and trys to maintain eye contact while he does it. It's supposed to show you that Luke is not what he should've been. He's failed. There is no mysticism. He's just a horrid old hermit who has been forced into legend against his will. Rey doesn't like it and you're not supposed to like it either. It's supposed to be a disappointment. They didn't take any accomplishments from him because the EU was never canon. That's why it was always categorised away as "The Expanded Universe". I can understand complaints about plot holes and boring sequences. But complaints that the film didn't do what you always imagined seems a bit unfair. It's not like Luke's gone. His last lines of dialogue are literally "I'm back in the next one btw". Luke just reached a point in his life where he's peaceful enough to be one with the Force. A great positive development for the character who cut himself off from the force at the start of the film. I fully expect him to have a big part on the final film. Especially as he's the only member of the OT trio who can appear now. And did Rey NEED to go through painful character development? Why? She had enough to go through. She basically finally accepted her parents never wanted her and she put a lot into that.[/sp] I'm not arguing with you. Fair play people are entitled to opinions and clearly this film is really divisive. I'm just genuinely interested in how expectations gave people different experiences for this film. I find it really interesting people were okay with Han Solo not changing at all over 30 years and literally resetting his character to where he was before the OT. Yet Luke who has shown development and seemingly actually lived for 30 years is harder to swallow. EP4, 5 and 6 were literally a few years of his life. Look how much he changed there. It makes sense he'd go through even more experiences and change to a greater degree in 30 years.

[QUOTE=Gramophone;52994947] [sp]Don’t get me started on Admiral Gender Studies[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]WTF is that suppose to mean?[/sp]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52995042][sp]WTF is that suppose to mean?[/sp][/QUOTE] She has pink hair ergo shes an SJW :downs:

Leia is the most "SJW" character in Star Wars. A pretty girl who breaks the damsel in distress trope by being badass, being more intelligent than Han and Luke and pretty much leads the war effort in the later part of the OT. Leia is the shit. I really wonder how she would be received by the anti-SJW crowd if she was done today. :thinking:

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52995069]Leia is the most "SJW" character in Star Wars. A pretty girl who breaks the damsel in distress trope by being badass, being more intelligent than Han and Luke and pretty much leads the war effort in the later part of the OT. Leia is the shit. I really wonder how she would be received by the anti-SJW crowd if she was done today. :thinking:[/QUOTE] But the slave bikini part defeats it doesn't it

So I was thinking about Kylo Ren while reading and listening to people's interpretations of the character and expectations and what they wanted from him. I started thinking of what I wanted from him as a character and then realized I was just retelling Zuko's entire personal story from Avatar: The Last Airbender. He kinda makes me think of Zuko, though without Zuko's honor.

[QUOTE=Ignhelper;52995122]But the slave bikini part defeats it doesn't it[/QUOTE] Well, that is not till the third movie, and if she was done today, we'd have just had Empire so we wouldn't have gotten to that yet. And besides, that isn't really done as a eye candy/fan service thing as much as it is because the bad guy is a disgusting creep. Though Christ, imagine if that did happen today! First movie people would be falling over themselves shouting "SJW" about Leia or saying what a progressive role model she is and as soon as she would be seen in the bikini, yeesh, I can practically see the Twitter hashtags now.

[QUOTE=Ignhelper;52995122]But the slave bikini part defeats it doesn't it[/QUOTE] The scene is quickly followed by her strangling Jabba to death, not to mention she just saved Han. And like the above post says, it was done to show that Jabba was a perverted asshole.

My one make-or-break hope for Episode 9 is that [sp]they don't kill Leia off-screen. They let her ride off into the sunset, don't cheapen it by going "oh btw Leia is dead, remember when Carrie Fisher died? :((((("[/sp]

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;52995402]My one make-or-break hope for Episode 9 is that [sp]they don't kill Leia off-screen. They let her ride off into the sunset, don't cheapen it by going "oh btw Leia is dead, remember when Carrie Fisher died? :((((("[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp] I honestly can't see what they can do. Either they kill her offscreen, which is super shit and unfitting for such an iconic character, especially one with a big role, or they have her operate behind the scenes, which wouldn't make any sense. I feel like Leia was going to be a huge, huge part in Kylo's arc but now she's gone and it fucks everything up. I do not envy their position at all. [/sp]

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52995431][sp] I honestly can't see what they can do. Either they kill her offscreen, which is super shit and unfitting for such an iconic character, especially one with a big role, or they have her operate behind the scenes, which wouldn't make any sense. I feel like Leia was going to be a huge, huge part in Kylo's arc but now she's gone and it fucks everything up. I do not envy their position at all. [/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]They've straight up said IX was intended to be Leia's film (like how VII and VIII were Han and Luke's films) and that they've essentially had to start over from scratch after Carrie passed away.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Blueleaf;52995450][sp]They've straight up said IX was intended to be Leia's film (like how VII and VIII were Han and Luke's films) and that they've essentially had to start over from scratch after Carrie passed away.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Have Lando return and make it his movie[/sp]

[QUOTE=Treznor;52995664][sp]Have Lando return and make it his movie[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]If they bring back Lando back for IX I want them to somehow bring Shriv into live action alongside him just for the fantastic banter between the two.[/sp]

[sp]I thought it did such a bad job of making you like Holdo in time for her sacrifice. I get that Poe was being a hotheaded shithead, but when he loudly confronts her in a public space asking for the plan so they don't die pointlessly and she just stands there like an idiot as Poe storms off without a rebuke and it turns out she had a plan all along later when they tried to mutiny I was just like "this whole thing could've been avoided and it's really lucky that you had a convenient steam pipe right next to you"[/sp] [sp]At that point the "what if there was a spy?" excuse doesn't even really work because she's already let them in on the fact that they're going to be evacuating in the transports which would've gotten then all blown up anyway. Not to mention the whole strict operational security need-to-know-basis thing has never really been a thing for the rebels in the star wars movies, as far I know? I could be wrong.[/sp] [sp]I read as I was typing this that in one of the books Holdo is kind of a weird person with communication issues and that her characterization in the movie makes sense, but how are you supposed to know that going in? She could've used more time, all you know her for is being an obstacle to Poe until it turns out actually she was in the right all along but it was still partially her responsibility.[/sp] [QUOTE=Blueleaf;52995450][sp]They've straight up said IX was intended to be Leia's film (like how VII and VIII were Han and Luke's films) and that they've essentially had to start over from scratch after Carrie passed away.[/sp][/QUOTE] Oh, no.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52993604]Also while I loved the film, one of my biggest issues with it is [sp] Ackbar's shit send off. What's even worse is apparently you can't think he's a proper character because of the trap meme, even though he had a huge presence in the Endor battle and recurrs a few times in the saga. Ackbar was awesome man... [/sp][/QUOTE] [Sp]There will be more Ackbars, those squid guys were like 2/3rds of the rebellion in Rogue One[/sp]

[QUOTE=Sableye;52995787][Sp]There will be more Ackbars, those squid guys were like 2/3rds of the rebellion in Rogue One[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]how dare you insinuate any random """squid guy""" could take ackbar's place[/sp]

[QUOTE=Cyan_Husky;52994450]While true, they could have just not had that [sp]fake traitor mutiny plotpoint at all and nothing of value would have been lost.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]I wonder how many people shouted "it's treason then" in the cinema when that happened.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52995868][sp]how dare you insinuate any random """squid guy""" could take ackbar's place[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Plus Ackbar is a fish, the squids are Quarrens[/sp]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52995907][sp]Plus Ackbar is a fish, the squids are Quarrens[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]he's obviously of the crustacean persuasion[/sp]

I think Rian Johnson made episode 8 as a "fuck you" to lucasfilm for not planning anything out beyond episode 7 and when Rian heard JJ abrams was directing episode 9 he had the hardest erection of his life

[video]https://youtu.be/xkOwVQt9WT4[/video]

I really need to see this movie soon so i can actually read everyone's posts in these threads :v:

Since her passing, this image just felt so heartwarming: [IMG]https://www.geeksofdoom.com/GoD/img/2017/05/IMG_3635-530x715.jpg[/IMG] Its great that Annie was able to capture this before her death.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52996083][video]https://youtu.be/xkOwVQt9WT4[/video][/QUOTE] Hint? [Sp] "and when i woke up ben and a bunch of my students were gone" with my jedi weed, and lit my temple on fire! While it would be weird that snoke would let them go, and it would be fitting that kylo had to execute them as part of his own training, Its entirely possible he sold them off to other sith lords/apprentices of his for training [/sp] [editline]21st December 2017[/editline] Can we also get a shoutout to the fact that the evil not-emperor snoke struts around in what absolutely has to be a satin bath robe and pajamas?

[sp] While I thought the Yoda scene was masterfully done, I really wish it didn't have Yoda physically interacting with the world via lighting. It just begs the question why Anakin, Yoda, Obi Wan and now Luke don't just go around going ape shit on the FO in order to help. [/sp]

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52996210][sp] While I thought the Yoda scene was masterfully done, I really wish it didn't have Yoda physically interacting with the world via lighting. It just begs the question why Anakin, Yoda, Obi Wan and now Luke don't just go around going ape shit on the FO in order to help. [/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]There's probably some unwritten Jedi rule that doesn't allow them to interfere with real affairs, otherwise every Jedi who ever died and could come back as a ghost could just team up to tackle every problem.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Sableye;52996142]Hint? [Sp] "and when i woke up ben and a bunch of my students were gone" with my jedi weed, and lit my temple on fire! While it would be weird that snoke would let them go, and it would be fitting that kylo had to execute them as part of his own training, Its entirely possible he sold them off to other sith lords/apprentices of his for training [/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]I think the implication from that line is that the students Ben took are now the Knights of Ren. They come across more like Dark Side rent-a-mooks than true apprentices to Snoke.[/sp] [QUOTE=Sableye;52996142]Can we also get a shoutout to the fact that the evil not-emperor snoke struts around in what absolutely has to be a satin bath robe and pajamas?[/QUOTE] Hey, when your body [URL="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/I9HXixi3jyI/maxresdefault.jpg"]gets all twisted up like a corkscrew,[/URL] you start to value your own personal comfort a little more. In other news, [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/7lc6s2/so_some_solo_stuff_might_be_coming_pretty_soon/"]Han Solo movie stuff is apparently coming soon[/URL] (just in case you're one of the four people who actually remember it's still happening).