Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

Just came back from the theatre and as usual going through reviews and such, and after going through a thick forest of low user ratings and dramatically written anger reviews I still can't find the reason why The movie certainly made a great impression on me, mainly because [sp] it felt really mature for the type of movie that it is. Star Wars was always about dealing with romantic subjects like balance, the fight between the light and darkness and it was a refreshing change to see unpredictability both in plot and newly introduced characters. A character who does not abide those universal rules(though he was not the first along the franchise, but in this case he isn't portrayed as a monster that we're meant to mock or necessarily hate) is Del Toros DJ. He simply takes care of his own ass and does not get convinced to turn to either side- and god am I so glad that it was BB8 who popped up under the hood of the AT-ST and not him. I really want his morals unchanged because they're strong and give somewhat of an observational point of view on things. The unpredictability continues as we are shown that Poe, who we were meant to be rooting for after taking over the ship from the hands of his bitch new boss gets a wake up zap and we learn that even this badass character who never loses can be wrong and hasty and maybe learn a lesson. The space battles were nervewrecking and kept me on the edge of my seat because they were supported by the unpredictable atmosphere this movie generates- so I wouldn't know if this rebel character I spent a few minutes from the movie getting acquainted with would die during one of the battles- and a lot of them do, or if these rebel cant-afford-to-lose weaponized ships will be torn apart and foiled by the FO's strength- and a lot of them do. I really enjoyed the hoards of new creature and alien designs(minus the crystal foxes) so naturally I couldn't take my smile off during the casino introduction scene and the whole world they built around that[the guards with their numbered helmets, etc The movie felt more uniquely directed too with close up shots of items of plot interest[the red emblem, the cliff edge, etc]. Snokes chamber was intimidating in its cleanliness and lack of color diversity, the swiss army weapon the red guards used was brilliant and made the all powerful Kylo and Rey have a run for their money- especially liked that one guard getting grinded by the fanblades. I loved that they used puppet trilogy Yoda to portray him rather than a newer CGI gunk. His cameo was spot on and it made me wonder about the other force ghosts and why they don't interact with the world themselves always, bringing me to a speculative conclusion that there must be some sort of force ghost Olympus where they debate these things and how much would their interference ruin the natural balance(which is the essence of the force itself). [/sp] Those are the things from the top of my head. But then again I only just watched the filmed so I might just be overwhelmed. But still, I think the movies are going in the right direction(didn't like TFA as much as this one), and I can't wait for the next ones.

So what did everyone think of the music this time around? It seemed to suffer from a similar problem as TFA, as there weren’t enough new and memorable tracks, but on the whole it did sound a lot stronger this time out.

[QUOTE=The_J_Hat;52996352]So what did everyone think of the music this time around? It seemed to suffer from a similar problem as TFA, as there weren’t enough new and memorable tracks, but on the whole it did sound a lot stronger this time out.[/QUOTE] i left the theater with a more positive impression of it than i had for TFA but i'm not sure why. [sp]was it just me or did it quote battle of hoth for a second when rey was flying through the big crystal cave thing in the falcon?[/sp]

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52995069]Leia is the most "SJW" character in Star Wars. A pretty girl who breaks the damsel in distress trope by being badass, being more intelligent than Han and Luke and pretty much leads the war effort in the later part of the OT. Leia is the shit. I really wonder how she would be received by the anti-SJW crowd if she was done today. :thinking:[/QUOTE] Don't forget after being rescued from fucking torture prison the [I]first[/I] thing she does is treat the men who saved her like shit before saving everyone herself in the same scene.

I feel the whole [sp]casino[/sp] part was a bit useless. The entire subplot actually was kind of a waste of time. [sp]They should have had Finn and Rose find a way onto Snoke's ship, like maybe say they have some experimental ship with bothan cloaking technology or some shit, and Poe would be the only one daring enough to try and use it as its never ever been used before. Then instead of the casino planet thing, they just have Finn and Rose sneaking around the ship trying to figure out how to disable the tracking thing. Maybe they have a rebel contact secretly working as a first order officer they work with, but he betrays them like that one guy did.[/sp] The rest of the movie was pretty fine tho. Super enjoyable.

I appreciate how they mention [sp]the First Order's security codes cycle routinely so that you can't just use an older code to get through,[/sp] considering the last time that happened, the Emperor got thrown down a hole and the second Death Star blew up. That said, they totally could have come up with a plausible way to get Finn and Rose on that ship that didn't involve a boring, plodding, tonally-dissonant trip to Space Monaco.

Today I finally managed to watch The Last Jedi roughly a week after its release. I think [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1544666&p=52996523#post52996523"]this post of mine[/URL] in the general movie thread can convey quite well the painful experience I had with this movie. Since you guys already discussed the movie at length and I even took part in some of your talks already, I would only like to add something extra to what I've already said from my personal Star Wars fan perspective: [sp]1) Not only Snoke gets uncerimoniously killed off even before the PROPER climax of the plot, but he also has only TWO scenes in the entire movie and in each looks like the dumbest Palpatine knock-off you can imagine. That was really a FUCKING DISGRACE. 2) Phasma gets an even worse threatment, but I'll admit those TWO MINUTES OR SO OF SCREENTIME were kinda interesting and cool to look at. 3) Luke Skywalker's threatment in this movie is kind of a mixed bag for me. One one hand, Luke's backstory and development in this film makes perfect sense and is beliveable enough to keep me interested in his story. On the other hand however The Last Jedi basically undones everything Luke became by the time of The Return of the Jedi, to the point I can understand why some people may consider his character compeltely derailed by the time the movie events' take place. 4) At my current state of mind I really can't say if The Last Jedi is worse than any of the prequels. I just can't. If I'd have to answer to that now, I'd say it's a pretty clear TIE, believe it or not. 5) On the brighter side of things, my favorite scenes where the fight between Kylo and Rey and Snoke's Pretorian Guards, along with Luke's death, since it was such a nice callback.[/sp] Finally, I can't stress enough that The Last Jedi can't be considered a deconstruction story towards the whole Star Wars canon by any reasonable stretch of the imagination. If you really want to experience something like that however, I do have an excellent suggestion for you [IMG]http://media.gamestats.com/gg/image/object/608/608569/kotor2_pcbox.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;52996457]I appreciate how they mention [sp]the First Order's security codes cycle routinely so that you can't just use an older code to get through,[/sp] considering the last time that happened, the Emperor got thrown down a hole and the second Death Star blew up. That said, they totally could have come up with a plausible way to get Finn and Rose on that ship that didn't involve a boring, plodding, tonally-dissonant trip to Space Monaco.[/QUOTE] I came up with an idea that [sp] they should have just went to ask Maz for help, you get to see her rebuilding the Castle, then they can have a payoff for the explanation of her having Luke's lightsaber (could easily just have Finn ask how she had it). Then Maz can come back with them and basically do the same thing DJ did and she can hyperspace away or return to the Raddus and help with the final battle, but without an unnecessary 40 minute long diversion. Then that extra time could be devoted to learning more about kylo or something[/sp]

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52996210][sp] While I thought the Yoda scene was masterfully done, I really wish it didn't have Yoda physically interacting with the world via lighting. It just begs the question why Anakin, Yoda, Obi Wan and now Luke don't just go around going ape shit on the FO in order to help. [/sp][/QUOTE] [sp] who's to say that the lighting wasn't going to strike that tree already...the force DOES work in unusual ways[/sp]

[QUOTE=TheHydra;52996357][sp]was it just me or did it quote battle of hoth for a second when rey was flying through the big crystal cave thing in the falcon?[/sp][/QUOTE]no, that was [sp]"Tie Fighter Attack" from Ep4[/sp]

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52996428]Don't forget after being rescued from fucking torture prison the [I]first[/I] thing she does is treat the men who saved her like shit before saving everyone herself in the same scene.[/QUOTE] to be fair if you were tortured and you're rescued by a booze swigging space pirate, a creature known for dismembering people and probably smells like ass, and a guy who won't stop oogling you, you'd probably be a bit testy. Plus you know.. like everybody she ever knew and loved was just viciously murdered in front of her and she's not a total emotional wreck.

[QUOTE=Blueleaf;52992942][URL="http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes/"]Star Wars: The Last Jedi Deleted Scenes: Everything We Know (includes some spoilers)[/URL][/QUOTE] So essentially everyone dumb was dumber and everyone whom was unnecessarily an asshole was an even larger one. I get that rian loves writing "organic people" whom are flawed as hell but this is freaking star wars, you can write whatever you want as long as you keep the formula contained in it somewhere, it doesn't even have to be overt. His original draft is some kind of cyberpunk dystopic quest movie that happens to have an xwing in it.

[QUOTE=Blueleaf;52996243][sp]I think the implication from that line is that the students Ben took are now the Knights of Ren. They come across more like Dark Side rent-a-mooks than true apprentices to Snoke.[/sp] Hey, when your body [URL="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/I9HXixi3jyI/maxresdefault.jpg"]gets all twisted up like a corkscrew,[/URL] you start to value your own personal comfort a little more. In other news, [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/7lc6s2/so_some_solo_stuff_might_be_coming_pretty_soon/"]Han Solo movie stuff is apparently coming soon[/URL] (just in case you're one of the four people who actually remember it's still happening).[/QUOTE] its not coming till december next year because disney has basically made december, disneycember

[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;52994917]Personally for me, Star Wars ended with the funeral of Darth Vader and Anakin joining Yoda and Obi-Wan's Force Ghosts. That's the end of everyone's character arcs from the OT and the PT. I'm not sure if it's from seeing the film only once but TFA just seems like a continuation for the sake of continuing. Making conflicts in the backstory rather than naturally progressing ones in the OT, because the OT wrapped up too neatly. Too much of the connection between the OT plot and the NT plot is told even with the old characters themselves running around. I don't know why I feel that why when I can see all the pieces are technically there, just not getting through to me. It's like with Dungeons & Dragons or similar games, especially more fatal games or playing with a killer GM. If none the original adventurers aren't involved with the adventure by the end, with new characters coming in just to keep all the players around the table in the game, there's hardly any satisfaction unless there's a really, REALLY good sense of passing the torch. I guess that's one of the big reasons why I feel the way I do. Luke didn't so much as pass the torch as much as both he and Rey ran so far away from the torch that it was honestly frustrating. Not to say there can't be any more stories in the Star Wars universe. But Luke, Leia, Han, the Rebellion, and the Empire end with the OT.[/QUOTE] I know ratings are relatively unimportant, but I'm really stumped as to why my post is getting rated funny. I mean, if the sentiment was so ridiculous it made people laugh I'd understand but I'd except dumbs from people who weren't amused.

Not to sound smug or anything but I feel like "no no no, it's a [i]DECONSTRUCTION[/i] of Star Wars" is the most pretentious, pseudo-intellectual film student critique this movie could possibly receive. It's really not a "deconstruction" just because [sp]it gives Luke a character arc[/sp], especially when the end result is still [sp]Jedi good, Sith bad, Rebels will fight with hope and tenacity, First Order will fight with cruelty and firepower, learn from your mistakes and never give up[/sp]. It just really comes off like someone who isn't smart enough to come up with a legit hot take REALLY wanting to sound like they've got a hot take. EDIT: Speaking of pseudo-intellectual film student bullshit, I wrote a spoiler-free review of TLJ if anyone's really that curious to see what I thought about it V:v:V [url]http://whiteguywithnetflix.blogspot.com/2017/12/review-star-wars-episode-viii-last-jedi.html[/url]

[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;52996741]I know ratings are relatively unimportant, but I'm really stumped as to why my post is getting rated funny. I mean, if the sentiment was so ridiculous it made people laugh I'd understand but I'd except dumbs from people who weren't amused.[/QUOTE]could be the analogy about running away from the proverbial torch

I saw Rogue One again yesterday, and damn does it makes me hate TLJ even more. I had chills for like half the movie in RO, and felt absolutely nothing during ep8...

I just got back from it, have to say I thought it was kind of bad. Not awful, but it seemed half the scenes were brilliant and the other half were the movie shooting itself in the foot. It's like two writers worked on it, one who was an experienced character author who knew exactly what he was doing and the other was some brain-damaged kid who really loved Spaceballs. I'm still collecting my thoughts and I'll write a much longer post later, but I have to say that not only do I agree that the the [sp] casino[/sp] plot was pointless, but I also thought that half the stuff in the film was pointless. There was a lot of moral grayness, a lot of hints of interesting characters and backstory, and very little of it actually was fleshed out or factored into anything. Also I'm really confused as to the political situation in the galaxy. I'm fine with the OT saying "Empire big and bad, Rebels small and good" because those stories were the beginning (at the time) and that's the set-up, but when thirty years has passed there should really be [I]some[/I] explanation for how things got the way they are. [sp] Snoke's throne room [/sp] and the salt planet were [I]beautiful[/I] though.

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;52996773]Not to sound smug or anything but I feel like "no no no, it's a [i]DECONSTRUCTION[/i] of Star Wars" is the most pretentious, pseudo-intellectual film student critique this movie could possibly receive. It's really not a "deconstruction" just because [sp]it gives Luke a character arc[/sp], especially when the end result is still [sp]Jedi good, Sith bad, Rebels will fight with hope and tenacity, First Order will fight with cruelty and firepower, learn from your mistakes and never give up[/sp]. It just really comes off like someone who isn't smart enough to come up with a legit hot take REALLY wanting to sound like they've got a hot take. [/QUOTE] It is bullshit in the way that the "Star Wars Ring Theory" is bullshit; it is just an overly complicated excuse created by the writer to justify as to why they enjoyed the movie when others frankly do not. I thoroughly enjoyed The Last Jedi, it had a mess of problems and a week or so later I have a better understanding as to why others did not. I don't agree with some of them, some I really do not agree with. But I don't need to dust off my Bachelors dissertation to pretend there is greater depth to the movie or my reasons for liking it than there were.

The thing I find really hylarious about this whole "it's an artistic deconstruction" argument about The Last Jedi is that at the end of the movie basically everything returns to the status quo anyway: [sp]1) There's an evil empire trying to snuff out a small and desperate rebellion 2) There's an evil Force user at the head of said empire 3) There's a young Jedi hero who is still trying to harness her powers correctly 4) The Jedi order is pretty much extinct but the possibility of its rebirth its hinted at[/sp] And I could go on, really. Perhaps the greatest thing I didn't like about that movie is that at the very least The Force Awakens left me hungry for me, left me with questions I really wanted to have the answers of, while The Last Jedi feels pretty much self-contained and doesn't leave anything up for things to come

My guess for the next film that is Hux will try to trick Kylo into getting killed. Perhaps get him on a planet then blow it or something.

[QUOTE=RoboChimp;52997337]My guess for the next film that is Hux will try to trick Kylo into getting killed. Perhaps get him on a planet then blow it or something.[/QUOTE] "Good thing we built death planet II while we were chasing those rebels around huh!"

[QUOTE=redBadger;52993516]Awful pop up ads on my phone with this site [editline]20th December 2017[/editline] [/QUOTE] I think we've got a fundamental misunderstanding of how characters - and humans - work here. [sp]Luke is like what, 20 or so years older in The Force Awakens? I don't know about you, but I'm not the same person I was 6 months ago, let alone 20 years ago. The entire point of character development is that parts of the old self - even the entire old self - is shed. I think it says more about what Luke has been through (and makes him a stronger character) when he's this broken, disillusioned man who's been emotionally destroyed by his past mistakes. It's much better than 'Gee Leia, that's a gosh darn shame, but let's not give up!'[/sp]

Oh yeah, another thing that upset me is that in The Last Jedi Armitage Hux is [I]a fucking whimp[/I]. Granted it's a core part of his character, but in the movie it was really exaggerated just for comedic purpose

I just saw the film though, and to be honest I really enjoyed it. One or two missteps, it felt pretty clear when the director needed to jam some extra tension in there in case people got bored, and there was far too much deus ex machina. But despite that stuff, it really hit home for me. If anything, it felt more true to the spirit of Star Wars than TFA - more mature in themes, far fewer dumb moments of fanservice, and some genuinely touching scenes. [editline]23rd December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=EliaMoroes;52997363]Oh yeah, another thing that upset me is that in The Last Jedi Armitage Hux is [I]a fucking whimp[/I]. Granted it's a core part of his character, but in the movie it was really exaggerated just for comedic purpose[/QUOTE] it's Huggs ok

[QUOTE=Maloof?;52997365] it's Huggs ok[/QUOTE] The Italian dubbing translated the joke as "Admiral Armitage [I]F-Hux[/I]", which was either a very clever or a very cringeworthy move

[QUOTE=Joazzz;52996612]no, that was [sp]"Tie Fighter Attack" from Ep4[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]i was wrong about what piece from ESB it quoted but it quotes from this for a brief second to lead into that: https://youtu.be/wRoZr9cHL0E?t=36 for reference: https://youtu.be/YIIvAoHIsPQ?t=224[/sp]

[QUOTE=Maloof?;52997361]I think we've got a fundamental misunderstanding of how characters - and humans - work here. [sp]Luke is like what, 20 or so years older in The Force Awakens? I don't know about you, but I'm not the same person I was 6 months ago, let alone 20 years ago. The entire point of character development is that parts of the old self - even the entire old self - is shed. I think it says more about what Luke has been through (and makes him a stronger character) when he's this broken, disillusioned man who's been emotionally destroyed by his past mistakes. It's much better than 'Gee Leia, that's a gosh darn shame, but let's not give up!'[/sp][/QUOTE] This is where the comedy really disrupted the film for me. [sp]Luke doesn't come across as a broken old man. The first thing he does is a visual gag, and almost every scene with him has some sort of punchline. Serious moments are usually offset by him cracking jokes, tickling Rey with a plant and so on. I thought he seemed more upbeat and jokey than in previous films.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;52997493]This is where the comedy really disrupted the film for me. [sp]Luke doesn't come across as a broken old man. The first thing he does is a visual gag, and almost every scene with him has some sort of punchline. Serious moments are usually offset by him cracking jokes, tickling Rey with a plant and so on. I thought he seemeed more upbeat and jokey than in previous films.[/sp][/QUOTE] Ah the plant joke really landed for me though. He seemed the perfect amount of frustrated to me and it played really well against Rey's blind enthusiasm. Probably the only joke in the movie that I found especially well done.

Now that I have finally seen the film for myself... Overall, I really enjoyed it. [sp]I really don't understand the passionate hatred of the film. I understand some of the grievances with things like Rose, Canto Bight, and Haldo, but to say that it's a bad movie or "prequel tier," I think, is a bit of an emotional exaggeration. I realize some of these thoughts may be retreads of things people have said (I did go back to see what all the fuss was about) but these are my thoughts on the matter, nonetheless: On the humor: The best way I can describe it is "jarring," for the most part. Poe's call to Hux at the beginning is very much in tune with Poe's character, but Hux continuously going "can you hear me?" made it feel more like a Robot Chicken skit than a Star Wars moment (Hux should have just caught on to Poe's stalling and ordered an attack). Luke tossing his lightsaber felt odd too given how the scene ended the last film. It was a humorous subversion of what one expected, but I felt it would have more tonally appropriate if Luke just let it roll out of his hands and fall to the ground and roll away. I thought the humor, though legitimately funny at times, was sometimes out of place. On Poe: I liked that he was essentially being groomed for a more leadership role in the resistance rather being a war hero and hopefully his failures in this film serve to help him grow in the next film to make wiser decisions for the sake of the bigger picture rather than the battle at hand. On Leia: I'm glad that we got some display of her innate Jedi abilities, although I wish it was implied by herself or Luke that she had tapped into them more in the years hence. However, her survival was just... odd and lacked the proper foreshadowing to immediately justify her ability to do such a thing. I would have preferred that that moment was her death and a dramatic loss that would affect Poe directly (and solve the troublesome issue as to what to do with Leia without Carrie, but hindsight 20/20). On Luke: I loved what they did with Luke. I'm glad they subverted the idea that Luke was an amazing guy after the original trilogy and that he had some failures. He also kind of addressed one of my issues with the Jedi and the Force in that, yeah, they're not as fantastic as everyone (including fans) make them out to be, and their logic/philosophy can be quite flawed. I have stated in the past that, to contrast with Vader's "unstoppable force" hallway scene in Rogue One; Luke should have an "immovable object" moment and we pretty much got that display of the Force at the end, which I thought was great (my version had him taking on the Knights of Ren and besting them easily until Kylo overpowers him or something; but this was much more Jedi). Mark Hamill did a fantastic job bringing a much more human story to Luke. (I really don't understand the grief over the milking scene, to me it's like milking a cow... I mean, if you never saw a cow, I suppose milking one would be strange... I don't know, it didn't bother and more than eating porgs or that fish Luke catches. Sci-fi reflections of what we always do to our wildlife, basically). On Finn and Rose: I did not like Rose. I didn't really find her interesting in any way, and what makes her worse is that she detracted Finn from doing anything interesting, as well. In fact, it's only when Finn is away from her that he's able to do anything interesting. I don't really think she added anything really significant to the plot or character interactions and that, unfortunately, reduced Finn character, to me, along with her. On Canto Bight: I did think it was kind of cool seeing a high-society place completely oblivious of the war. As for the rest of Canto Bight, other than being mildly pleasing visually, I thought it the final "yeah, we stuck it to them good" thing on the cliff was out of nowhere and a needless detour from everything else going on. I think in the grand scheme of things, this detour served more to set up Benicio Del Toro's character for both drama later in the film, and for a larger role in the next film (I did find it to be an interesting tidbit to show that the resistance gets armaments from war profiteers as does the First Order). I highly doubt that is the last of him. I also feel like Maz Kanata had some Force shenanigans On Snoke: I am really glad they subverted the "Emperor 2.0" thing that had been going on, but it came at the expense of really determining who Snoke was. I mean, even if it was a line from Luke's flashback or Kylo saying that he had trained Palpatine's Inquisitors or elaborated on the Knights of Ren as a Star Wars Templar and he was the grand master. Where did Snoke come from? How was he influencing Ben Solo as a Jedi student? Why hadn't Luke just tried to stop Snoke before? At the very least, we will probably get new expanded universe details, but I would have liked to know more about this power Force-user who is not Sith, yet has become Emperor Palpatine's successor... somehow. On Kylo Ren and Rey: The trifecta that is them and Luke are the strongest highlights of the film on thematic and narrative levels. Both dwell further into the grey nature of the Force and I'm glad Kylo has embraced the desire for power and hasn't been turned good (or vice versa where Rey is turned evil --which I always thought would be kind of dumb, anyhow). On the Knights of Ren: I think they're missing a great opportunity for something unique with the Knights and they, frankly, should have been featured in the last film and built upon in this film. For instance, instead of Kylo Ren flanked by Stormtroopers, have him have two Knights following him. Otherwise, what the fuck are they doing and where are they? On Phasma: I don't know if she was ever intended to be a noteworthy side-villain except from the expectation because of her unique armor. However, I do think they are missing opportunities to do that by just making her being a little more proactive about hunting Finn or having her do more than just try and look cool. I did enjoy her fight in this one (as it was one of the bigger things I was looking forward to) but if she truly is dead (which I doubt) or if there's not some larger payoff for her survival in the next film, then she's just wasted potential and just Boba Fett 2.0. I probably have more to say, in reflection, but I've been up all night and my memory is getting fuzzy. So, how about some speculation/wishful thinking: I'm thinking the next film will be the remains of the resistance making some unlikely allies in the forms of; including but not limited to, Kanja Club and the Scottish dude from the Force Awakens, Benicio Del Toro (who has a connection to Lando and follows up on the arms supplied to the Rebels by the Canto Bight people). It would be interesting if Kylo Ren and his Knights of Ren continue to seize control of the First Order but Hux (tired of being treated like a bitch) tries to lead a coup against him which ultimately has Hux and his legion of Stormtroopers slaughtered; the First Order infighting is then taken advantage of by the resistance, but the Knights actually have some Sith artifacts or something shit to turn the tides in their favor. [/sp]