Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

[QUOTE=thepwnwar;52999463]If you want a visual spectacle but don't care about major plot holes, go and see The Last Jedi. Otherwise don't.[/QUOTE] In your opinion, what are the major plot holes?

I thoroughly enjoyed the movie aside from Finn's mission to the casino planet and his companion (does that count as a spoiler?) Felt like filler to me I guess.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52998822]Probably haven't been paying enough attention then, considering the films make a frequent point that Rey has potential but also has a fundamental misunderstanding of the force as a concept and that everything she's done thus far is unimportant baby shit. Being able to lift objects with your mind is entry level. She has absolutely no control over the deeper aspects of her connection to the force and as such remains rather weak in terms of how powerful force users can actually end up being. Kylo Ren is technically stronger than she is but he's also limited by the fact he's fueled by baby rage.[/QUOTE] It just doesn't feel believable for her to be so good. I don't care if it's unimportant. She managed to be better than Kylo at force powers in the first movie, that's fucked. Finn was way more interesting.

[QUOTE=Speedhax;52999490]It just doesn't feel believable for her to be so good. I don't care if it's unimportant. She managed to be better than Kylo at force powers in the first movie, that's fucked. Finn was way more interesting.[/QUOTE] Slightly better at force tug-of-war than a guy who had the sci-fi equivalent of a shotgun blast directly to the torso minutes earlier.

[QUOTE=Reds;52999519]Slightly better at force tug-of-war than a guy who had the sci-fi equivalent of a shotgun blast directly to the torso minutes earlier.[/QUOTE] Don't forget the emotional distress from stabbing his own father.

[QUOTE=27X;52999056]I'll take "what is ironic sample size" for 1000, Alex[/QUOTE] Could you speak in a way that we could understand? What do you mean by this?

[QUOTE=squids_eye;52999467]In your opinion, what are the major plot holes?[/QUOTE] tbh my biggest issue with the film was [sp]Leia flying in space and Holdo's lightspeed kamikaze[/sp], everything else is fine imo. Also I honestly believe [sp]Finn and Rose would succeed their mission, so that kinda surprised me despite the whole part is ultimately pointless.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Bloodshot12;52999214]Was anyone else kind of confused by the [sp]steamer fake out? I laughed because it seemed so out of place, it felt like something from spaceballs[/sp][/QUOTE]A few people: [QUOTE=RoboChimp;52982245]For me the best scene in the 'The Last Jedi' was the close up of the [sp]clothes iron[/sp], that really made the movie for me.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Chrisordie;52982258][sp]I am not going to lie, I thought that was some kind of First Order space craft or high tech machine, boy was I surprised![/sp][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;52982276]It was like something straight out of Spaceballs.[/QUOTE]

guys lmao people keep saying [sp]"the lightspeed kamikaze breaks every other battle lol!!" Yeah ok, lets just evacuate and ram the capital cruiser of every fleet into one ship every battle, not accounting for the fact that there could be different attack patterns, different size ships, the fact that these ships are fuckhuge and hard to maintain, also the fact that we got these ships on the bank of the republic and we probably don't have much resources ourselves hence why we got desperate enough to consider that in the first place It doesnt "break every other battle" because you would literally be expecting the rebels to just be willing to hyperspace kamikaze their biggest ship into the other biggest ship under the Empire. The Raddus is still fairly sizable compared to the Supremacy, it's not like they're throwing an X-wing at the Death Star Mass. Volume. That's what makes the kamikaze so effective it's not really a tactic that could reasonably be used in the heat of battle in the galactic civil war, because anything smaller than a cruiser or a freighter would be too small to be as effective as something like a Mon Cal capital ship.[/sp]

[sp]hyperspace projectiles are nothing new to star wars, either[/sp]

[QUOTE=Speedhax;52999490]It just doesn't feel believable for her to be so good. I don't care if it's unimportant. She managed to be better than Kylo at force powers in the first movie, that's fucked. Finn was way more interesting.[/QUOTE] Why are people still under the impression that Kylo Ren was strong in TFA ? It's the same as Rey. Good base potential, trash execution, definitely more so when he's fucking wounded both in body and pride. Most of his "power" comes from parlor tricks and looking intimidating, which is established to be a complete charade anyway and just a means to hide his inherent weakness due to lack of focus. In TLJ [sp]when they're both at their best or at least on equal grounds they are roughly of equal strength and their main disparity comes from how Kylo Ren further entrenches himself in complete and utter lack of control whereas Rey actually tries to learn how to focus the force instead of just lashing out at everything around her[/sp] [editline]23rd December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=squids_eye;52999467]In your opinion, what are the major plot holes?[/QUOTE] Rey can swim after living her entire life on a desert planet :v:

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52999946]Why are people still under the impression that Kylo Ren was strong in TFA ? It's the same as Rey. Good base potential, trash execution, definitely more so when he's fucking wounded both in body and pride. Most of his "power" comes from parlor tricks and looking intimidating, which is established to be a complete charade anyway and just a means to hide his inherent weakness due to lack of focus. In TLJ [sp]when they're both at their best or at least on equal grounds they are roughly of equal strength and their main disparity comes from how Kylo Ren further entrenches himself in complete and utter lack of control whereas Rey actually tries to learn how to focus the force instead of just lashing out at everything around her[/sp] [editline]23rd December 2017[/editline] Rey can swim after living her entire life on a desert planet :v:[/QUOTE] Because he's obviously meant to be stronger than Rey? One is just discovering how to use the force and lightsabers, the other has been training for years at both. In TLJ [sp]Snoke even makes a point that Rey bested Kylo Ren because he was conflicted over his father's death (not to mention the bowcaster injury). He's clearly the more able warrior in the throne room fight too.[/sp] And don't you know about Unkar Plutt's Luxury Swimming Pool?

[QUOTE=proboardslol;52998118][sp]The whole plot line where Rose and Finn go and try to disable the hyperspace tracking was totally pointless.[/sp] [sp]Not only did they not end up needing that technology, if Finn and Rose had stayed put, The rebel fleet wouldn't have been destroyed because they wouldn't have gotten captured and their info wouldn't have been sold by Benicio Del Toro.[/sp] [sp]Also, if the vice admiral had just told everyone what the plan was, nobody would have had to mutiny to avoid getting killed by what they thought was an incompetent leader.[/sp] [sp]Movies where the plot is advanced or conflict is introduced by characters not communicating with each other is crappy writing.[/sp] [/QUOTE] This kind of thinking seems ignorant to me. [sp]Characters' decisions that are fruitless and lead to failure are pointless for them, but that doesn't make them pointless to the story. Rose and Finn had no idea it was going to go down that way. As someone said already, Holdo had a perfectly valid reason not to communicate the plans, as evidenced by the immediate mutiny when said plans are revealed. The sabotage story arc was pointless for the rebellion, but it had a huge impact on the story because it messed up the fleet's escape plan and made the battle even more desperate. And also got us as viewers to see the world outside of the space battle so hardly pointless.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Talishmar;53000050]This kind of thinking seems ignorant to me. [sp] As someone said already, Holdo had a perfectly valid reason not to communicate the plans, as evidenced by the immediate mutiny when said plans are revealed. [/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]She didn't reveal the plan. Why do people keep saying this? She makes it seem entirely like they're just abandoning ship and hoping they don't die. No one knows about the hidden rebel base. No one knows about the ability to cloak the transports from FO scanners. A mutiny at that point is justified because she's literally telling them, "hope the FO decides not to shoot our transports while we abandon our only defense." Leia is the one that reveals the plan while they're already on the transports to the planet, and once Poe hears it he's entirely ok with it.[/sp] Like is there an alternate version of the movie somewhere that changes what happens?

[QUOTE=Cliff2;53000373][sp]She didn't reveal the plan. Why do people keep saying this? She makes it seem entirely like they're just abandoning ship and hoping they don't die. No one knows about the hidden rebel base. No one knows about the ability to cloak the transports from FO scanners. A mutiny at that point is justified because she's literally telling them, "hope the FO decides not to shoot our transports while we abandon our only defense." Leia is the one that reveals the plan while they're already on the transports to the planet, and once Poe hears it he's entirely ok with it.[/sp] Like is there an alternate version of the movie somewhere that changes what happens?[/QUOTE] [sp]They don't know how he would react to that plan. Considering his track record of commiting to every attack, it's more of a fault with the film that he is perfectly ok with escaping in the ships than it is for them not wanting to tell him.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Speedhax;52999490]It just doesn't feel believable for her to be so good. I don't care if it's unimportant. She managed to be better than Kylo at force powers in the first movie, that's fucked. Finn was way more interesting.[/QUOTE] Do people genuinely forget that Kylo was super hurt at the end of TFA? Like borderline DYING? He was trying his hardest not to succumb to the fucking railgun sized hole in his side. Like. Chewbacca fucking HITS him with the Bowcaster. A weapon that causes people near the shot to fly into the air.

[sp]Didn't get the closure I wanted is all I have to say.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52998537]Evil Dead 2 has a really odd relation to the first one in terms of how it starts. But if you want a clearer example, there's Army of Darkness.[/QUOTE] The issue is that the Evil Dead trilogy's sequels have opening narrations that retcon the last movie like some kind of alternative "previously on"

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52998790]It's a trick that [sp]only dead people can normally do and Luke does it while alive and at the top of like 60+ years of age, so of course he'll eat dirt.[/sp] On top of this I'll add that [sp]when a Jedi becomes sufficiently attuned to the force they can reach a state of transcendence where they effectively enter the cosmic flow, astral projection is just the physical manifestation of that. At this point their body is effectively useless and only serves to anchor them to the mortal realm for a little while longer, as soon as they don't need it they don't have much of a reason to keep it. That's why Yoda fucks off into a space ghost in ROTJ exactly when he does and not at some random point in the future, he's trained Luke and has finally atoned for his past failures and accomplished his goal of keeping the Jedi alive, so he disappears. Obi Wan kind of was shoved ahead of schedule but ultimately still fulfilled his purpose by setting Luke on the right path.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]The Dopplegänger (or Projection) ability isn't a "dead people-only" type of thing. And it has never been fatal up until The Last Jedi.[/sp]

I rewatched it even though not with friends but with my mother. I still enjoyed the movie. [sp] During Leia's mary poppins' space adventure part, my mother just looked at me confused[/sp] That's the only part she sort of disliked it and she loves Star Wars a lot, i'm glad.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52998281]Dont know if thats a good example.[/QUOTE] But it literally starts off seconds from the end of the first film. Without watching the first one you kind of don't fully understand what started off the plot. I mean it kind of explains it in a hilarious, unreliable narrator sort of way, but the beginning is kind of confusing if you haven't seen the first one. [editline]23rd December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;53000711]The issue is that the Evil Dead trilogy's sequels have opening narrations that retcon the last movie like some kind of alternative "previously on"[/QUOTE] That's because Ash is a highly unreliable narrator, and he's the one relaying these "previously on" stories. The way I saw it is the events of the first film made him go pretty much insane, and his memory of the events of the previous film are affected by his mental state.

i know this has been said a couple of times in the thread already but i feel it needs to be hammered home even the second film in a trilogy can have its own meaningful story arc, and have a large impact on the arc as a whole it's just that the character development in TLJ is a bit ham-fisted and also some of the side plots fucking blow imo

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;53001110]i know this has been said a couple of times in the thread already but i feel it needs to be hammered home even the second film in a trilogy can have its own meaningful story arc, and have a large impact on the arc as a whole it's just that the character development in TLJ is a bit ham-fisted and also some of the side plots fucking blow imo[/QUOTE] The movie sideplots were the worst part, they all went nowhere, near the end i was wondering if they were actually going to amount to anything, or just keep resulting in fuck ups constantly till plot armor inevitably saved them and bam, that's exactly what happened till plot armor came at them at lightspeed, literally.

[QUOTE=DeEz;53000721][sp]The Dopplegänger (or Projection) ability isn't a "dead people-only" type of thing. And it has never been fatal up until The Last Jedi.[/sp][/QUOTE] since when in star wars canon has [sp]projection been a thing besides force ghosts???[/sp]

I felt everything up until [sp]Rey returns from Luke's island[/sp] was great! It was a solid entry well...until [sp] Rey meets Kylo, Kylo kills Emperor Who?[/sp] I felt that is when the movie really fell apart for me despite some of the shittiest dialogue and the [sp]pointless casino scene[/sp]

Everything before [sp]Rey goes to Snoke's ship[/sp] was a pretty decent and good SW film. However, despite the [sp]pointless casino plot[/sp] and the cringeworthy humor, it brought the movie down a bit. But everything after [sp]Emperor Knockoffatine gets killed [/sp]that's when the movie became clear it was a terrible movie for me. The first two halves of the movie were a 8-7/10 for me, they went down to a 5/10 by the third half. I've enjoyed every SW film up until now, even the prequels I appreciated for what they were (I still consider AotC the worst prequel and a movie I can barely sit through). However, I was amazed a movie such as this could become a worse experience on the same level as AotC. Where was the thrill? Where was the adventure? Why did everything need a goofy quip? I had high expectations but Disney made a terrible call changing directors midway in a trilogy that wasn't even fully written in stone.

[QUOTE=Zeos;52998077]Adam Driver is just knocking it out of the park, like, he's giving it way more effort than some of the others.[/QUOTE] He's likely aware of the shoes he's trying to fill as the red-lightsabered villain of the new trilogy, and is doing his damndest not to fuck it up I do have a habit for liking villains, and Kylo Ren is my favorite character

[QUOTE=Cliff2;52981658]From Reddit, [sp]Ackbar should've taken Holdo's spot, and after Hux realizes that the empty cruiser is actually targeting them he yells "IT'S A TRAP"[/sp] :zing:[/QUOTE] [sp]You're thinking of it retroactively. During the film, you're questioning who Holdo is, and there's this underlying feeling that she could be trying to sabotage the rebellion. But if it was Ackbar, we'd just be pissed at Poe the whole time.[/sp] [editline]24th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;52999239]It's Finn not FN[/QUOTE] It's like if you referred to Kunta Kinte as Toby.

[QUOTE=Zeos;52998077]Adam Driver is just knocking it out of the park, like, he's giving it way more effort than some of the others.[/QUOTE] I've yet to see TLJ, however its very obvious that he is everything Ani should have been in the prequels, albeit with obviously different personality traits. He would be the quintessential 'Vader in his youth', tbh

Someone made a article about how people felt when empire strikes back came out in 1980s [url]http://www.acriticalhit.com/fans-react-empire-strikes-back-1980/[/url] [QUOTE]Robert L. Beedy-Scarola: Is Luke related to Vader? Most think so now that Vader came right out and said it. Well, I say, do you believe everything you hear? Vader may have lied just to enlist Luke to his side. Vader would then dispose of Luke once he got what he wanted.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Did you feel like The Last Jedi left too many unanswered questions? Empire Strikes Back viewers felt the same. Sean Bernard: I know they wanted to leave something to settle in the other sequels, but they left a little too much. For instance, Han Solo’s predicament. The movie should not have ended until Han was either killed by Boba Fett or Jabba or rescued by Lando Calrissian or Chewbacca, the former, preferably. Also, the fate of Bespin is not told. Was it taken by Lando’s troops, taken by Imperial troops or destroyed by Vader? I like Lando Calrissian and Billy Dee Williams was very good playing the part.[/QUOTE]