Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

[sp]Yeah, one thing the sequel trilogy has done really poorly is explain the whole situation to us clearly. It's been awhile since I've seen TFA and I haven't seen (but been spoiled on) TLJ, but I don't really recall the movies explaining exactly the situation the Resistance finds themselves in. Without diving into supplementary materials, I don't think I would have known that it was A) Hosnian Prime that was B) the seat of the Republic and C) that all the Republic's leaders were on that planet as it exploded, nor would I have understood that the Resistance was a rag tag band of believers under Leia as opposed to the Republic Army. To me it just seems like the First Order kinda came out of nowhere 30 years after the defeat of the empire (enough for like, one generation of people to be born) with an army, a massive space station capable of obliterating star systems, and a fleet of warships to rival the original Empire, and just kinda undid the entire original trilogy. I don't hate TFA as a movie and I probably won't hate TLJ like some other people do, but I don't think it does a good job of explaining the situation well.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Alsojames;53015102][sp]Yeah, one thing the sequel trilogy has done really poorly is explain the whole situation to us clearly. It's been awhile since I've seen TFA and I haven't seen (but been spoiled on) TLJ, but I don't really recall the movies explaining exactly the situation the Resistance finds themselves in. Without diving into supplementary materials, I don't think I would have known that it was A) Hosnian Prime that was B) the seat of the Republic and C) that all the Republic's leaders were on that planet as it exploded, nor would I have understood that the Resistance was a rag tag band of believers under Leia as opposed to the Republic Army. To me it just seems like the First Order kinda came out of nowhere 30 years after the defeat of the empire (enough for like, one generation of people to be born) with an army, a massive space station capable of obliterating star systems, and a fleet of warships to rival the original Empire, and just kinda undid the entire original trilogy. I don't hate TFA as a movie and I probably won't hate TLJ like some other people do, but I don't think it does a good job of explaining the situation well.[/sp][/QUOTE] It's been a while since I watched the original trilogy but did anything happen in it that would permanently destroy the Empire? They killed the Emperor and blew up the second Death Star but wouldn't they still have fleets of ships, production facilities, stormtroopers and lower ranked officers all over the galaxy?

I'd imagine the production and support facilities would eventually be destroyed/appropriated by the Republic by the time the First Order rolls around. The Empire literally flees past the Outer Rim, past charted space, don't they?

[QUOTE=squids_eye;53015125]It's been a while since I watched the original trilogy but did anything happen in it that would permanently destroy the Empire? They killed the Emperor and blew up the second Death Star but wouldn't they still have fleets of ships, production facilities, stormtroopers and lower ranked officers all over the galaxy?[/QUOTE] It's one of the great unanswered (if you're only looking at the movies) questions. I know the PT has made people allergic to the idea of "space politics" but there [I]really[/I] needed to be something to establish how the Republic/Resistance and First Order in the ST make any sense. [editline]30th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Pax;53011370]I've been thinking way too much about the use of hyperspace in the new movies. [sp]I love Holdo's hyperspace ram in TLJ, but I will admit it opens a can of worms. It's not alone, however.[/sp]For some reason, the new movies have been playing with hyperspace as the new source of action twists. In TFA we have both hyperspacing out of a ship's hold, and hyperspacing through a planetary shield into an atmosphere. In Rogue One, we have a ship hyperspacing out of the debris-filled atmosphere of an exploding planet.[sp]And of course, TLJ has FTL ramming.[/sp]I'm not sure all of these examples add up together. It bears mentioning that most of these would've been impossible in the old EU unless you severely violated the manufacturers licensing agreement of your ship. In universe, there were safeguards including cutting the hyperdrive in the presence of planetary mass shadows, and out of universe, most of the EU's rules were created by West End Games for use in their tabletop RPG, most of the point of which is to lay down rules for living in a setting. Of course, the ships committing these sins are all rebel ships in general and often the Millennium Falcon in specific, so I do find it believable that they might've made some modifications that void the warranty. The problems with hyperspace and cans of worms is that the things they've done may make sense, but kind of veer uncomfortably into the kind of real-world physics that Star Wars has to try to ignore. What do I mean by that? Realistically, any FTL ship is a weapon of mass destruction if pointed in the right direction. Throwing a soda bottle out the window at lightspeed could create a weapon more powerful than the Death Star. If you've got a capital ship with a tractor beam and an asteroid field, you've got full magazine of apocalypse ammo. Our only real explanation for why this doesn't happen is cultural. It's drilled into captains in flight school that this is not a thing that's done. And to be fair, in most of the movies we have so far, we mostly just have the Republic/Empire who don't need to do that kind of thing, and the Rebels who think of themselves as the good guys too much to do it (I don't know what all Saw Guerrara got up to. Maybe is that kind of jerk.) But in a universe with 30,000 years under it's belt and Sith, I don't know if that's enough. Maybe it does happen from time to time, to catastrophic results, and the galaxy as a whole remembers Why We Don't Do That. The other explanation is that it has something to do with[sp]the FO's hyperspace tracking method, which means that this particular hyperspace ramming is the only one that could've happened.[/sp]Unfortunately, that's fanwank at the present, but would've been an excellent addition to TLJ that would've at least cleared it up a little. As is, I see no reason while Episode IX won't have Kylo Ren fielding swarms of hyperdrive-equipped suicide TIEs and why the Millennium Falcon won't just hyperspace into the hangar bay of the FOs ships, drop a bomp, and hyperspace back out.[/QUOTE] Thank you for summing up all my thoughts about how hyperspace in the new trilogy, and especially with events of TLJ really screw with the old established canon for how things work. It's not so much that it's not internally consistent within the movies (for the most part). It's more that what they're doing in the new movies create [I]so many[/I] plot holes that become increasingly hard to ignore. [editline]30th December 2017[/editline] For the record, I would have been a lot happier [sp]with the hyperspace ram scene if there were big loud obnoxious warnings going off around the entire bridge to say "hey what you're about to do is a really fucking bad idea!" Or if they had a quick one second insert of Holdo disabling safeties or something like that. Pax already said everything I would have ranted about otherwise, but a quick little detail like that would have gone a long way in making it seem a little less problematic.[/sp]

Hideo Kojima wrote a article about his thoughts on last jedi: spoilers n shit obv [url]https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/kojima-star-wars-in-the-era-of-disney-w514793[/url]

Having finally watched The Last Jedi myself, I honestly feel like [sp]only the Luke/Rey/Kylo shit had any payoff. Holdo or whatever was a blank character that had no overall weight despite the impressive sacrifice, way too many rebels were killed for shock value to make the 'spark of hope' plausible, and the entire subplot of Finn and Rose felt like padding rather than anything really constructive for the film overall. It feels like another movie spending a lot of time on build-up to keep setting up new things, like rather than providing answers they just make more questions while leaving others inexplicably hanging.[/sp] [sp]Plus the entire rebel side of the plot basically hinges on TELLING NO ONE ANYTHING ABOUT THE ESCAPE PLAN. If anyone, Holdo or otherwise, had been willing to be fucking forthcoming about it, then the entire Finn/Poe/Rose subplot would've never happened, but sheer, braindead stupidity basically caused the rebels to dwindle themselves to a couple dozen at best. Christ fuck.[/sp]

My interpretation was that [sp]they didnt tell anyone about the plan because they suspected they had a spy on their ship due to the empire being able to track them through hyperspace[/sp] But its not really established in the movie. Its kind of frustrating really, because a lot of the "plot holes" in the movie have plausible explanations that would probably mitigate a lot of problems people have with the movie, if only they actually established them in the actual film. (Then again, maybe Im just more creative at coming up with explanations then the director was, or something :v:)

[QUOTE=Tuskin;53014837]They're nothing alike. Go rewatch ANH[/QUOTE] All smugglers and rogues are Han Solo don't you know??

[QUOTE=RikohZX;53015436]Having finally watched The Last Jedi myself, I honestly feel like [sp]only the Luke/Rey/Kylo shit had any payoff. Holdo or whatever was a blank character that had no overall weight despite the impressive sacrifice, way too many rebels were killed for shock value to make the 'spark of hope' plausible, and the entire subplot of Finn and Rose felt like padding rather than anything really constructive for the film overall. It feels like another movie spending a lot of time on build-up to keep setting up new things, like rather than providing answers they just make more questions while leaving others inexplicably hanging.[/sp] [sp]Plus the entire rebel side of the plot basically hinges on TELLING NO ONE ANYTHING ABOUT THE ESCAPE PLAN. If anyone, Holdo or otherwise, had been willing to be fucking forthcoming about it, then the entire Finn/Poe/Rose subplot would've never happened, but sheer, braindead stupidity basically caused the rebels to dwindle themselves to a couple dozen at best. Christ fuck.[/sp][/QUOTE] If we're being honest [sp] her plan was as stupid as their plan because it relied on the enemy being too stupid to notice the hundred transport ships fleeing from the big ship, and yes they threw in a line about them being cloaked but the context is that the larger ship was positioning itself behind them to mask them, which wouldn't last long anyways. Also it opened up another plot hole because one can concieve that the heavy cruiser MIGHT be faster at sub-light than everybody else, but those transports were flying even faster than the heavy cruiser which had all of those massive engines.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Why485;53015325]For the record, I would have been a lot happier [sp]with the hyperspace ram scene if there were big loud obnoxious warnings going off around the entire bridge to say "hey what you're about to do is a really fucking bad idea!" Or if they had a quick one second insert of Holdo disabling safeties or something like that. Pax already said everything I would have ranted about otherwise, but a quick little detail like that would have gone a long way in making it seem a little less problematic.[/sp][/QUOTE] I just watched the movie again yesterday. [sp]There was a distinct warning siren going off in the bridge of the Raddus as Holdo was aiming the ship at the First Order. It was subtle enough that you might miss it the first time around, but it was there nonetheless.[/sp]

This comes from Sam Witwer [sp]He feels the scene would have been better if it was set up similar to the Hammer head scene in R1 (Star Destroyer shields damaged then disabled by Y-Wings). Have them say the Supremacy's shields or whatever defensive system is down, so they can reroute power to the engines, in the scene where they realize she's going to ram them, have Hux or another officer yell to bring the shields up, and have one of the underlings say it would take too long to reroute power. Explain why it worked and why they don't do it more often[/sp] Also Sam says he is in this movie like in R1 and TFA, but he didn't say where.

[sp]Also maybe I was misinterpreting the scene, but wasn't the inside of the bomber in the space battle at the beginning completely exposed to space? In fact, the way it's designed, wouldn't the entire ship including the cockpit have to be directly exposed to space to be able to drop it's payload? Did I miss something here?[/sp]

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;53016132][sp]Also maybe I was misinterpreting the scene, but wasn't the inside of the bomber in the space battle at the beginning completely exposed to space? In fact, the way it's designed, wouldn't the entire ship including the cockpit have to be directly exposed to space to be able to drop it's payload? Did I miss something here?[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]There was a forcefield/magnetic field keeping the air in. You can see the telltale glow around the bottom of the chute. Similar the hangar bays on the Death Star and other ships[/sp]

Something different to ponder, but I found it kind of strange that some characters would say "Godspeed" in The Last Jedi, given its route word and the absence of such "religious" speech (i.e. "god damn it", "[god] bless you,"). It's something I've wondered about since hearing Delta in Republic Commando say "See you in Hell, lizard" and it just seems odd to me coming from a Star Wars setting. Anyone else feel the same way?

[QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;53016481]Something different to ponder, but I found it kind of strange that some characters would say "Godspeed" in The Last Jedi, given its route word and the absence of such "religious" speech (i.e. "god damn it", "[god] bless you,"). It's something I've wondered about since hearing Delta in Republic Commando say "See you in Hell, lizard" and it just seems odd to me coming from a Star Wars setting. Anyone else feel the same way?[/QUOTE] Han says "I'll see you in hell" in Empire. I wouldn't think too much about it. Because if you go too far in the direction of making everything in Star Wars seem alien, you end up with "younglings" as a substitute for "children"

It also felt weird hearing the word boyfriend in TFA for some reason

So when is Solo supposed to take place? Han is 29 in ANH, and he looks like 20 on the leaked pics. If it's around 10 years before ANH, I hope we'll see some good ol' V-Wings or prototype TIEs in the Empire Navy. Also I hope we won't see anything from the rebellion. I want some cool new scum and smuggler ship designs.

[URL="http://variety.com/2017/film/news/john-williams-star-wars-composer-han-solo-movie-theme-1202650282/amp/?__twitter_impression=true"]John Williams is composing Han Solo's theme for the Solo film.[/URL] [QUOTE]Williams revealed his involvement in “Solo: A Star Wars Story” during in an interview with Variety about his current “Star Wars” opus, “The Last Jedi.” “The present plan is that I’m writing a theme for Han Solo, and John Powell is going to write the score, which he’ll do brilliantly,” Williams says. Powell was announced as the primary composer for “Solo” back in July. “His assignment is something I’m very happy about,” Williams adds. “What I will do is offer this to John, and to [director] Ron Howard, and if all parties are happy with it, then I will be happy. … John [Powell] will complete the score. He will write all the rest of the themes and all of the other material, which I’m going to be very anxious to hear.”[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=NapyDaWise;53016709]So when is Solo supposed to take place? Han is 29 in ANH, and he looks like 20 on the leaked pics. If it's around 10 years before ANH, I hope we'll see some good ol' V-Wings or prototype TIEs in the Empire Navy. Also I hope we won't see anything from the rebellion. I want some cool new scum and smuggler ship designs.[/QUOTE] Supposedly Solo will be taking place roughly around 10 years before ANH. V-Wings were being phased out of the Imperial Fleet around 5 years after ROTS, so they probably won't appear (though since we've gotten a turbo tank in Rogue One I wouldn't be too surprised to see some PT era vehicles show up).

I want to see more expanded lore designs, like how we got the Rebels version of the Hammerhead in Rogue One. I'd like to see an Arquitens show up on the big screen.

[QUOTE=Blueleaf;53016720]Supposedly Solo will be taking place roughly around 10 years before ANH. V-Wings were being phased out of the Imperial Fleet around 5 years after ROTS, so they probably won't appear (though since we've gotten a turbo tank in Rogue One I wouldn't be too surprised to see some PT era vehicles show up).[/QUOTE] Only five years? Man that makes the T-70 and TIE/fo even worse, being 30 years later...

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;53016798]Only five years? Man that makes the T-70 and TIE/fo even worse, being 30 years later...[/QUOTE] The TIE/fo is modern tech, it's just the design that's the same. The T-70 is the one running on old tech (coming from only a couple years after ROTJ) though the resistance has maintained them. There was a newer X-Wing model, the T-85 but that was only in service with the New Republic.

[QUOTE=Blueleaf;53016720][URL="http://variety.com/2017/film/news/john-williams-star-wars-composer-han-solo-movie-theme-1202650282/amp/?__twitter_impression=true"]John Williams is composing Han Solo's theme for the Solo film.[/URL] Supposedly Solo will be taking place roughly around 10 years before ANH. V-Wings were being phased out of the Imperial Fleet around 5 years after ROTS, so they probably won't appear (though since we've gotten a turbo tank in Rogue One I wouldn't be too surprised to see some PT era vehicles show up).[/QUOTE] Would be neat to see something like pirates using old Clone Wars era ships as their attack craft.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53016809]Would be neat to see something like pirates using old Clone Wars era ships as their attack craft.[/QUOTE] Bring in some Uglies. [url]http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ugly[/url]

I want to have more smart "stop the plot we [sp]need to show a stupid vegas planet and cute animals and kids and animal riding that utlimately leads to nothing[/sp] "-devices than "fuel" and "reach"

[QUOTE=Tuskin;53016812]Bring in some Uglies. [url]http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ugly[/url][/QUOTE] Uglies are one of my favorite concepts from the EU just for all the potential fun that comes from kitbashed frankenfighters. [T]https://orig00.deviantart.net/cb87/f/2015/061/e/f/uglies_by_unusualsuspex-d8k6646.jpg[/T][T]https://www.retrozap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Poe-Dameron-8-Favorite-Panel.jpg[/T][T]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--UMAdCIWn--/njv7dqg6vzlrlrkvb0wc.png[/T] Would love to see them show up onscreen.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;53016680]It also felt weird hearing the word boyfriend in TFA for some reason[/QUOTE] In polish subtitles they translated "codebreaker" as "hacker", and hearing about hackers in star wars was fucking weird

[QUOTE=RikohZX;53015436]Having finally watched The Last Jedi myself, I honestly feel like [sp]only the Luke/Rey/Kylo shit had any payoff. Holdo or whatever was a blank character that had no overall weight despite the impressive sacrifice, way too many rebels were killed for shock value to make the 'spark of hope' plausible, and the entire subplot of Finn and Rose felt like padding rather than anything really constructive for the film overall. It feels like another movie spending a lot of time on build-up to keep setting up new things, like rather than providing answers they just make more questions while leaving others inexplicably hanging.[/sp] [sp]Plus the entire rebel side of the plot basically hinges on TELLING NO ONE ANYTHING ABOUT THE ESCAPE PLAN. If anyone, Holdo or otherwise, had been willing to be fucking forthcoming about it, then the entire Finn/Poe/Rose subplot would've never happened, but sheer, braindead stupidity basically caused the rebels to dwindle themselves to a couple dozen at best. Christ fuck.[/sp][/QUOTE] I walked out of The Last Jedi finally and I did really think it was great. Was there padding? Sure, and my friend made the exact same comments you said. In honestly despite all this, there were great things in that nearly overshadows those complaints. Kylo Ren was a huge step up from The Force Awakens (he was still good in that), Luke and Rei were fine, but really [sp]him not telling Rei what really happened at the new Jedi Temple hindered what could be the perfect mentor/student relationship like with Luke and Yoda. Too many secrets and not enough learning.[/sp] The Last Jedi is a[B] -A.[/B]

I was reading today that The Last Jedi: Visual Dictionary may mention Darth Revan from Knights of The Old Republic. [sp]"....inside Luke’s home, you’ll spot a handmade pendant of leather carrying a special object. It’s the red crystal used inside every Sith lightsaber, mounted inside a metal cradle as a “trophy” of sorts. Most viewers may assume that it’s the power source of Darth Vader’s lightsaber – a reminder to Luke of the darkness that consumed his father But the canonical name of the object, as revealed in Star Wars: The Last Jedi: The Visual Dictionary, reveals a different past. The gem is still a “fragmented Sith lightsaber crystal,” but it didn’t belong to Luke or his father. It’s a “recovered Jedi Crusader pendant” – which refers to only one corner of Star Wars canon. " http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revanchist [/sp] Might be a stretch but I've been wanting a KOTOR movie forever now.

Upon rewatching the original Star Wars, it's super obvious that Han's whole Kessel Run remark is just him blowing smoke in an attempt to scam an old man and a kid out of their money. [i]"Whaaaa? YOU'VE never heard of the MILLENNIUM FALCON??? It's the ship that made the... Kessel... Run... in less than... uh... TWELVE PARSECS (that's a unit of time, right?)!!!"[/i] Like, he's just wheeling and dealing, being a scummy pirate conman. But now I bet we're gonna have to actually SEE the Kessel Run. And they'll probably devote a bunch of time to the parsec flub and have them like, fly past a black hole, or something so that everything can be totally airtight on Wookieepedia. This is the shit that I hate about modern Star Wars; you get fans who obsess over every little throwaway detail, then put them in charge of the whole thing, and suddenly you start having to explain why lightsabers don't have crossguards or how bombs can fall in space, when really none of this shit matters because it's a fairy tale about space samurais. You get people in charge of the franchise who mistakenly believe that Star Wars is science fiction, when it's really science fantasy. It's this line of thinking, that we need to explore EVERYTHING, that led to midichlorians.

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;53017713]I was reading today that The Last Jedi: Visual Dictionary may mention Darth Revan from Knights of The Old Republic. [sp]"....inside Luke’s home, you’ll spot a handmade pendant of leather carrying a special object. It’s the red crystal used inside every Sith lightsaber, mounted inside a metal cradle as a “trophy” of sorts. Most viewers may assume that it’s the power source of Darth Vader’s lightsaber – a reminder to Luke of the darkness that consumed his father But the canonical name of the object, as revealed in Star Wars: The Last Jedi: The Visual Dictionary, reveals a different past. The gem is still a “fragmented Sith lightsaber crystal,” but it didn’t belong to Luke or his father. It’s a “recovered Jedi Crusader pendant” – which refers to only one corner of Star Wars canon. " http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revanchist [/sp] Might be a stretch but I've been wanting a KOTOR movie forever now.[/QUOTE] Honestly just make KotOR outright canon it's one of (if not the) best piece of expanded universe material and it doesn't interfere with the movies at all not to mention they put a [sp]big fuckass huge ship from KotOR in Rogue One[/sp] like quit making flirty eyes and just FUCK