Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;53017806]Upon rewatching the original Star Wars, it's super obvious that Han's whole Kessel Run remark is just him blowing smoke in an attempt to scam an old man and a kid out of their money. [I]"Whaaaa? YOU'VE never heard of the MILLENNIUM FALCON??? It's the ship that made the... Kessel... Run... in less than... uh... TWELVE PARSECS (that's a unit of time, right?)!!!"[/I] Like, he's just wheeling and dealing, being a scummy pirate conman. But now I bet we're gonna have to actually SEE the Kessel Run. And they'll probably devote a bunch of time to the parsec flub and have them like, fly past a black hole, or something so that everything can be totally airtight on Wookieepedia. This is the shit that I hate about modern Star Wars; you get fans who obsess over every little throwaway detail, then put them in charge of the whole thing, and suddenly you start having to explain why lightsabers don't have crossguards or how bombs can fall in space, when really none of this shit matters because it's a fairy tale about space samurais. You get people in charge of the franchise who mistakenly believe that Star Wars is science fiction, when it's really science fantasy. It's this line of thinking, that we need to explore EVERYTHING, that led to midichlorians.[/QUOTE] Han says it straight faced, but I think the lie is clear due to how clueless Luke and Obi-Wan are and how Han keeps on blagging afterwards. I hope the Kessel Run we see in the movie isn't some massively impressive event and that Han does it through cheating and lying (maybe it was 14 parsecs after all?) Keep in mind that the film is co-written by Lawrence Kasdan, and if any screenwriter could understand and respect this stuff, it's probably him. [QUOTE=CyclonatorZ;53016501]Han says "I'll see you in hell" in Empire. I wouldn't think too much about it. Because if you go too far in the direction of making everything in Star Wars seem alien, you end up with "younglings" as a substitute for "children"[/QUOTE] Hell is actually a small, unpleasant asteroid in the Outer Rim.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;53017825]Honestly just make KotOR outright canon it's one of (if not the) best piece of expanded universe material and it doesn't interfere with the movies at all not to mention they put a [sp] big fuckass huge ship from KotOR in Rogue One [/sp]like quit making flirty eyes and just FUCK[/QUOTE] It's actually from Rebels. The design was reused in the show, to recannonise it. The one is RO isn't the one from KotOR [editline]31st December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Bread_Baron;53018151]Han says it straight faced, but I think the lie is clear due to how clueless Luke and Obi-Wan are and how Han keeps on blagging afterwards. I hope the Kessel Run we see in the movie isn't some massively impressive event and that Han does it through cheating and lying (maybe it was 14 parsecs after all?) Keep in mind that the film is co-written by Lawrence Kasdan, and if any screenwriter could understand and respect this stuff, it's probably him.[/QUOTE] I hope we never see the kessel run, but for Lando to use that line on Han like Han used it on Luke and Obi Wan.

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;53018156]It's actually from Rebels. The design was reused in the show, to recannonise it. The one is RO isn't the one from KotOR[/QUOTE] I mean it isn't 'one' in the first place, it was a model of ship of which there were numerous including the Endar Spire and the Harbinger, but KotOR totally invented it

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;53017806]Upon rewatching the original Star Wars, it's super obvious that Han's whole Kessel Run remark is just him blowing smoke in an attempt to scam an old man and a kid out of their money. It's this line of thinking, that we need to explore EVERYTHING, that led to midichlorians.[/QUOTE] IIRC it even says in the script that this is a boast. Something about Obi-Wan not falling for it as well. Midichlorians have been around since the OT, George just couldn't find a way to put them in the original movies. [editline]31st December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=NapyDaWise;53018156]I hope we never see the kessel run, but for Lando to use that line on Han like Han used it on Luke and Obi Wan.[/QUOTE] It's already canon that the Kessel Run is a real thing that smugglers do, but Han doing it in 12 parsecs hasn't be confirmed to be true. There is no source (yet) that outright states that fact is a fact.

Anyone else notice the Venator class in ROTS is huge compared to all it's other appearances in other media? Like, it looks like it's bigger then the Imperial Class Star Destroyer in the OT. Anakin and Obi-Wan's fighters are specs compared to it. But any other media they're not. The canon length of the Venator is 1,155 Meters long.

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;53018156] I hope we never see the kessel run, but for Lando to use that line on Han like Han used it on Luke and Obi Wan.[/QUOTE] Fuck me this is perfect. Honestly, give me a Lando movie where we see him lie/cheat/steal his way to become the fresh prince of Cloud City. Maybe that will make up for [sp]him not having a cameo on Canto Bight as the Master Codebreaker Maz was talking about.[/sp]

TLJ Became the highest grossing film of 2017 in North America today [url]https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2017/12/31/star-wars-last-jedi-becomes-top-grossing-film-year/993370001/[/url]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;53019485]TLJ Became the highest grossing film of 2017 in North America today [url]https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2017/12/31/star-wars-last-jedi-becomes-top-grossing-film-year/993370001/[/url][/QUOTE] now that's lucky timing

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;53017806]But now I bet we're gonna have to actually SEE the Kessel Run. And they'll probably devote a bunch of time to the parsec flub and have them like, fly past a black hole, or something so that everything can be totally airtight on Wookieepedia.[/QUOTE] Pretty much exactly how it happens in the Han Solo novel trilogy.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;53011793][sp]It was a last ditch effort, not a strategy[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]...why isn't it a strategy? That seemed incredibly fucking effective, and the literal perfect weapon for a small guerrilla force fighting an enemy that likes to use massive, easy to hit targets. I feel like it invalidates even the death star destructions when they could have just hit them with an RKV like that. I'm sure there'll be some contrived canon reason as to why they couldn't though.[/sp]

[QUOTE=IrishBandit;53019877][sp]...why isn't it a strategy? That seemed incredibly fucking effective, and the literal perfect weapon for a small guerrilla force fighting an enemy that likes to use massive, easy to hit targets. I feel like it invalidates even the death star destructions when they could have just hit them with an RKV like that. I'm sure there'll be some contrived canon reason as to why they couldn't though.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Because the First Order was so focused on attacking the shuttles that they didn't pay attention to the extensively long time it took for the cruiser to turn around and prep engines until it was far too late. In any other battle, the cruiser would have been destroyed or maneuver to avoid collision.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53019895][sp]Because the First Order was so focused on attacking the shuttles that they didn't pay attention to the extensively long time it took for the cruiser to turn around and prep engines until it was far too late. In any other battle, the cruiser would have been destroyed or maneuver to avoid collision.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp] Right, in that back-foot scenario, but I'm talking offensively, planned. Hyperspace in, hyperspace into target. Or even use smaller hyperspace missiles into star destroyers to insta-kill them. [/sp]

[QUOTE=IrishBandit;53019902][sp] Right, in that back-foot scenario, but I'm talking offensively, planned. Hyperspace in, hyperspace into target. Or even use smaller hyperspace missiles into star destroyers to insta-kill them. [/sp][/QUOTE] Given the size of the cruiser, [sp]I'm pretty sure small missile fighters wouldn't actually do all that much damage, especially when doing such suicide missions will be costly both for ships and personnel. And it'll cost far, far more to make a large kamikaze vessel like the cruiser became.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53019921]Given the size of the cruiser, [sp]I'm pretty sure small missile fighters wouldn't actually do all that much damage, especially when doing such suicide missions will be costly both for ships and personnel. And it'll cost far, far more to make a large kamikaze vessel like the cruiser became.[/sp][/QUOTE] Imperial ships don't seem to have a lot of redundancy or armor for combat purposes, like the bridge and their main sensor arrays are litterally the easiest things to hit on a star destroyer

You know, [sp]if they could sneak a small shuttle off of the rebel cruiser to go on this entire elaborate plan of getting a codecracker, why didn't they just go get more fucking fuel for the cruiser instead and have the command plan under less duress?[/sp] [editline]1st January 2018[/editline] And even if you buy the theory that [sp]there was a suspect of a spy on board, why did neither Rose nor Finn even attempt to warn Holdo about the brand new tracker where they could've gotten more theoretical support for a counter-plan?[/sp]

[QUOTE=RikohZX;53019992]You know, [sp]if they could sneak a small shuttle off of the rebel cruiser to go on this entire elaborate plan of getting a codecracker, why didn't they just go get more fucking fuel for the cruiser instead and have the command plan under less duress?[/sp] [editline]1st January 2018[/editline] And even if you buy the theory that [sp]there was a suspect of a spy on board, why did neither Rose nor Finn even attempt to warn Holdo about the brand new tracker where they could've gotten more theoretical support for a counter-plan?[/sp][/QUOTE] Because Poe was being a stupid fuck. Sorry, I meant petty dumb fuck

[QUOTE=RikohZX;53019992]You know, [sp]if they could sneak a small shuttle off of the rebel cruiser to go on this entire elaborate plan of getting a codecracker, why didn't they just go get more fucking fuel for the cruiser instead and have the command plan under less duress?[/sp] [editline]1st January 2018[/editline] And even if you buy the theory that [sp]there was a suspect of a spy on board, why did neither Rose nor Finn even attempt to warn Holdo about the brand new tracker where they could've gotten more theoretical support for a counter-plan?[/sp][/QUOTE] Because, among other things, in The Last Jedi the good guys utterly refuse to sit together in one room to assert the gravity of the current situations they are in and devise a shared strategy to escape their predictaments. At the very least this huge show of stupidity comes to bite the protagonists in the ass [I]hard[/I] by the time the movie ends since [sp]the Resistance is as weak as it has ever been, Rey didn't manage to secure Luke's help or a complete Jedi training and Kylo Ren has the full might of the First Order (now the strongest power in the galaxy) at his disposal[/sp]

[video=youtube;cjq8bNGHIUQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjq8bNGHIUQ[/video]

[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;53020309]Because, among other things, in The Last Jedi the good guys utterly refuse to sit together in one room to assert the gravity of the current situations they are in and devise a shared strategy to escape their predictaments. At the very least this huge show of stupidity comes to bite the protagonists in the ass [I]hard[/I] by the time the movie ends since [sp]the Resistance is as weak as it has ever been, Rey didn't manage to secure Luke's help or a complete Jedi training and Kylo Ren has the full might of the First Order (now the strongest power in the galaxy) at his disposal[/sp][/QUOTE] Well here's the stupid thing though, I did finally look this up, the first order has roughly a quarter of the galaxy under their belt and its apparently difficult to get there through some blackhole kessel run bs but the republic comprises the other 3/4ths of the galaxy. Ya starkillerbase (death planet) killed some of their biggest worlds and their top brass but still like its the US vs Germany here, they got more shipyards, more resources, and more experience building ships, the first order is wasting its time moping up the rebels when their main enemy is regrouping reorganizing and we will see none of that because these star wars are about the empire and the rebellion And ya its sort of important to deal with the rebellion since they are established in the outter rim, the first orders own homeland as it would be, but still, very poor strategy

The New Republic, like the Old Republic was also very de-centralized, planets had a lot of autonomy. The New Republic basically tried to undo everything the Empire did, no centralization, no giant military etc. So once the majority of the NR fleet and politicians were gone, planets probably just started going on their own, surrendering to the FO or just trying to be independent.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53019921]Given the size of the cruiser, [sp]I'm pretty sure small missile fighters wouldn't actually do all that much damage, especially when doing such suicide missions will be costly both for ships and personnel. And it'll cost far, far more to make a large kamikaze vessel like the cruiser became.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp] I dunno, a lot of capital ships seem to blow up in star wars willy-nilly. I would bet the rebellion in Return of the Jedi would have preferred to sacrifice one capital ship as a hyper-ram into the death star instead of having their fleet destroyed over Endor. Especially when given the Cruiser:Flagship size ratio, smaller hyper-ram missiles should just beable to insta-kill cruiser-sized ships.[/sp]

Regarding the Holdo Maneuver: [sp]Hyperspace seems to work like a realm under the 'sheet' of real space, allowing faster than light travel by virtue of compressed spacetime. Using a hyperspace drive pulls your ship into the compressed space of hyperspace, stretching out your ship in real space as you transition into hyperspace. If you've got enough room the transition isn't noticeable, it's fast, and you successfully slip through. If it isn't because something sizeable is in the way, you get stretched and impact, and boom.[/sp] [sp]As for why it's not used all the time, well, it was a huge amount of luck to get the fragmentation that disabled the several other ships, and the slice was only that: a slice, not an impact of nuclear proportion, as would happen with objects actually accelerated to near lightspeed. The rest of the ship is perfectly intact, it just got separated on the wing. And if you don't have a target as big as the capital ship Snoke used, good luck hitting them. So, if you need to buy a ship and fit a hyperdrive onto it just to use a whole bunch of precious fuel that could be better spent in non-suicidal ways so that you can ~maybe~ get into the exact amount of range to the enemy, not too far or too close, in the hopes that they don't notice you (why wouldn't they unless you were in the exact situation Holdo was in) and you can aim your ship juuuuust right, you might have a chance at poking a hole through one ship. But if you had enough fuel, shielding, and your munitions, you could just fight normally and have a better chance at taking out several ships.[/sp]

I kinda hope IX ends with the First Order still reigning. As in not necessarily killing off the good guys, but still not ruini g the entire FO in one movie. Maybe have the protagonists killed off, but let the FO live on as a bitter-sweet ending. Leaves a possibility for sequels as well, but only if it works as a good ending to the saga on it's own.

[QUOTE=Sableye;53019842]now that's lucky timing[/QUOTE] Being 2018 doesn't make it released outside of 2017

[QUOTE=Treznor;53021039]I kinda hope IX ends with the First Order still reigning. As in not necessarily killing off the good guys, but still not ruini g the entire FO in one movie. Maybe have the protagonists killed off, but let the FO live on as a bitter-sweet ending. Leaves a possibility for sequels as well, but only if it works as a good ending to the saga on it's own.[/QUOTE] Didn't Daisy Ridley say she was done with the films after IX, though?

[sp]I do really like the implication that Kylo is essentially "neutral", or leaning somewhat to the dark side. And hate to say it but the high-pants wearing prettyboy has a point, you can't "balance" the force by having it only be jedi. It's implied even in the new canon that during the times of Jedi/Light dominance that the ruling administrations became complacent and lazy, and instead of risking dark corruption, they became emotionless and stopped caring, which just led to lunacy. Also I hate to admit it but the fight scene in the throne room was cool as fuck and I wanted to see more of the Not Samurai[/sp]

[QUOTE=DChapsfield;53021035]Regarding the Holdo Maneuver: [sp]Hyperspace seems to work like a realm under the 'sheet' of real space, allowing faster than light travel by virtue of compressed spacetime. Using a hyperspace drive pulls your ship into the compressed space of hyperspace, stretching out your ship in real space as you transition into hyperspace. If you've got enough room the transition isn't noticeable, it's fast, and you successfully slip through. If it isn't because something sizeable is in the way, you get stretched and impact, and boom.[/sp] [sp]As for why it's not used all the time, well, it was a huge amount of luck to get the fragmentation that disabled the several other ships, and the slice was only that: a slice, not an impact of nuclear proportion, as would happen with objects actually accelerated to near lightspeed. The rest of the ship is perfectly intact, it just got separated on the wing. And if you don't have a target as big as the capital ship Snoke used, good luck hitting them. So, if you need to buy a ship and fit a hyperdrive onto it just to use a whole bunch of precious fuel that could be better spent in non-suicidal ways so that you can ~maybe~ get into the exact amount of range to the enemy, not too far or too close, in the hopes that they don't notice you (why wouldn't they unless you were in the exact situation Holdo was in) and you can aim your ship juuuuust right, you might have a chance at poking a hole through one ship. But if you had enough fuel, shielding, and your munitions, you could just fight normally and have a better chance at taking out several ships.[/sp][/QUOTE] The problem is that [sp]the hyperspace slice gets uncomfortably close to real life physics as Pax so eloquently put. The way I interpreted the scene was that the ship impacted just before it gets into hyperspace proper, during the extreme speed up that you always see when a ship jumps into and out of hyperspace. It's still in real space at that point, but only for a split second.[/sp] [sp]What this does is it creates HUMONGOUS plot holes now, because there's absolutely zero reason that this shouldn't be weaponized. It doesn't seem remotely difficult to calculate how far you would have to be to time it so that you would impact something at a significant fraction of light speed, especially when nothing Holdo did seemed precisely timed.[/sp] [sp]Aiming is not difficult. When you are traveling at a significant fraction of light speed it's literally point and shoot. There's no dodging that. On top of that, you don't need a capital ship to cause damage. Anything traveling at a significant fraction of light speed with cause ENORMOUS damage to anything due to the raw kinetic energy involved. Just an A-Wing sized ship smashing into a regular old Imperial class Star Destroyer would completely annihilate it.[/sp] [sp]As good as that scene looked, it really fucking bothers me because it creates so many problems with how hyperspace works and how it's remotely safe and you don't have whole cities semi-regularly being wiped out in horrific accidents. In the old canon this stuff just didn't happen because of the way hyperdrives and mass shadows worked, but in the new canon you can just hyperspace from inside a ship (TFA), while still on a planet (Rogue One), and so close to a planet that you're 100 feet off the ground and through a planetary shield (TFA). That last one in particular raises the question of why they needed to even disable the planetary shield for the the attack on the second Death Star in ROTJ.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53021938][sp]I do really like the implication that Kylo is essentially "neutral", or leaning somewhat to the dark side. And hate to say it but the high-pants wearing prettyboy has a point, you can't "balance" the force by having it only be jedi. It's implied even in the new canon that during the times of Jedi/Light dominance that the ruling administrations became complacent and lazy, and instead of risking dark corruption, they became emotionless and stopped caring, which just led to lunacy. Also I hate to admit it but the fight scene in the throne room was cool as fuck and I wanted to see more of the Not Samurai[/sp][/QUOTE] There's also the fact that [sp]Rey is definitely a violent person when it comes to combat; with no formal training and a bundle of issues, she just violently swings and slashes while screaming her head off. In a way, having the central Sith antagonist and Jedi protagonist be rather ambiguous between eachother on the teeter-totter of the Force is an interesting approach, instead of strict Light and Dark logic. It's far from the first time, even in the new canon, but still.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53021631]Didn't Daisy Ridley say she was done with the films after IX, though?[/QUOTE] Yes she did, but I'm pretty sure every SW actor has been "done with the saga" at some point in their career. They always come back.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53021631]Didn't Daisy Ridley say she was done with the films after IX, though?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]“...I was asked how I felt going forward. And I said, in my mind, the story finishes at Episode IX. To me, Star Wars is in threes. [Episodes] 4, 5, 6; 1, 2, 3; 7, 8, 9. So, for me, that’s what I was signing on to; VII, VIII, IX. So that’s really what I was answering. And I think, for now- I’m not saying forever. Obviously, Rey will always be Rey… and obviously I don’t know what happens in Episode IX, or even if I’m in it. But for now I think it would be- To me, IX was always the end of this chapter. So, it’s not me going ‘I don’t want to.’ It’s just that’s what I always pictured.”[/QUOTE] She's already done voice acting for Rey outside of the films, so who knows.