Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN - Film, Television and Music

[QUOTE=Blueleaf;53022481]She's already done voice acting for Rey outside of the films, so who knows.[/QUOTE] It's cute that she thinks they won't milk her character for decades to come.

Their contracts probably state that they have to provide that kind of stuff for X amount of time.

[QUOTE=Why485;53022192] [sp]As good as that scene looked, it really fucking bothers me because it creates so many problems with how hyperspace works and how it's remotely safe and you don't have whole cities semi-regularly being wiped out in horrific accidents. In the old canon this stuff just didn't happen because of the way hyperdrives and mass shadows worked, but in the new canon you can just hyperspace from inside a ship (TFA), while still on a planet (Rogue One), and so close to a planet that you're 100 feet off the ground and through a planetary shield (TFA). That last one in particular raises the question of why they needed to even disable the planetary shield for the the attack on the second Death Star in ROTJ.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Uh, space is big, very big. The chances of hitting a planet are slim unless you do it on purpose. accidents would be very, very rare. Hyperspace collisions with planets were possible in EU, according to wookieepedia. It gives an example of a separatist ship accidently hitting a planet, causing its core to crack. (the source for this is the ROTS Cross Section book) Remember, Han's manoeuvre was said to be almost impossible, and they almost crashed. I doubt the rebellion leadership back during ROTJ would ever think of, or even authorize such a plan because of the risks. Mass Shadows are also still a thing in the new canon. As for jumping while in the atmosphere of a planet, or landed on a ship, that is a safety feature on ships that can be shut off, but carries risk as you could be torn a part by the gravity fields if you don't do it correctly. Rogue One wasn't the first time in the franchise where a ship jumped while in the atmosphere of a planet, it happened once in the Clone Wars TV series[/sp]

[video]https://youtu.be/CHGMSaWXuMQ[/video] [editline]2nd January 2018[/editline] ignore the clickbait thumbnail, it's a good video.

I saw a great explanation of Poe and Holdo's interactions in the movie. [sp]For the Holdo/ Poe stuff, there's a very good reason Holdo didn't tell Poe anything about the plan. First off, she's the Vice-Admiral and head of the entire organization. Poe is a Captain, recently demoted from Commander. Who just got a lot of people killed on a dangerous stunt. Holdo didn't have to tell Poe about the plan because that's not how military organizations work. If your commanding officer gives you an order, it can be part of your duty to express your feelings regarding it. However, once that has been said, it is still your job to follow through with that order, regardless of your feelings on it. Doing your own thing is reckless and dangerous, and it can- and did- get people killed. Poe was ordered to man his station. Which was kind of important as they were under constant attack and he might be needed at a moments notice. Instead he decided to play cowboy and make up his own plan because he didn't like what his boss told him, because it wasn't what he would do. Secondly, Holdo had no idea how they were being tracked through Hyperspace. Anyone or anything could be a spy, so Holdo had to keep her cards close to her vest. And, again, Poe was just a recently demoted Captain- not one of the higher chain of command. Now, what could have changed that is when Poe figured out how they were being tracked, he could have told Holdo. Let her know how the First Order was finding them. Instead, because he didn't like the way Holdo talked to him, he made up his own plan. Which, again, got people killed. Had he told Holdo, she could have let him know what they were going to do and why running off to the Casino Planet isn't a good idea. Source: https://www.deviantart.com/art/The-Last-Jedi-Spoilers-722620998 (comments)[/sp] [editline]3rd January 2018[/editline] [video]https://twitter.com/realronhoward/status/947859525360635904[/video]

I think one problem with the whole thing was that it felt like there were awkward recuts or something. [sp]Several other Resistance members joined Poe in his mutiny, implying that he wasn't the only one in the dark on the entire affair. But once Poe gets stunned and the plan goes into action, it's all treated as if only Poe mutinied and the others that joined him never speak up or are mentioned again. And even the bridge commander girl with the pigtails sort of participates in Poe's mutiny. If it had just been Poe going cowboy and stirring shit, then sure, but the fact that multiple people worked with him implied that Holdo flat out did not let anyone know except the highest command until the last minute; while the story tries to make the viewer think it could be a spy, that's gotten rid of in like 5 minutes and only sheer and petty stupidity drives the entire rest of that subplot.[/sp]

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;53017806]Upon rewatching the original Star Wars, it's super obvious that Han's whole Kessel Run remark is just him blowing smoke in an attempt to scam an old man and a kid out of their money. [i]"Whaaaa? YOU'VE never heard of the MILLENNIUM FALCON??? It's the ship that made the... Kessel... Run... in less than... uh... TWELVE PARSECS (that's a unit of time, right?)!!!"[/i] Like, he's just wheeling and dealing, being a scummy pirate conman. But now I bet we're gonna have to actually SEE the Kessel Run. And they'll probably devote a bunch of time to the parsec flub and have them like, fly past a black hole, or something so that everything can be totally airtight on Wookieepedia. This is the shit that I hate about modern Star Wars; you get fans who obsess over every little throwaway detail, then put them in charge of the whole thing, and suddenly you start having to explain why lightsabers don't have crossguards or how bombs can fall in space, when really none of this shit matters because it's a fairy tale about space samurais. You get people in charge of the franchise who mistakenly believe that Star Wars is science fiction, when it's really science fantasy. It's this line of thinking, that we need to explore EVERYTHING, that led to midichlorians.[/QUOTE] Now more than ever, Star Wars proves that nerds were a fucking mistake

[QUOTE=RikohZX;53024007]I think one problem with the whole thing was that it felt like there were awkward recuts or something. [sp]Several other Resistance members joined Poe in his mutiny, implying that he wasn't the only one in the dark on the entire affair. But once Poe gets stunned and the plan goes into action, it's all treated as if only Poe mutinied and the others that joined him never speak up or are mentioned again. And even the bridge commander girl with the pigtails sort of participates in Poe's mutiny. If it had just been Poe going cowboy and stirring shit, then sure, but the fact that multiple people worked with him implied that Holdo flat out did not let anyone know except the highest command until the last minute; while the story tries to make the viewer think it could be a spy, that's gotten rid of in like 5 minutes and only sheer and petty stupidity drives the entire rest of that subplot.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]The people working with him seemed to be other pilots or junior officers. People who would also not be privy to the information.[/sp]

I still think Holdo should have [sp]been the one to lose a family member in the bombing run.[/sp] At least [sp]"I'm not letting you in on this because you got my sister/daughter/whatever killed, I'm grieving and you're a liability" makes more sense from an emotional standpoint than "lol sorry sweetie I mean I know Leia trusted you and I trust Leia but I'm still gonna be needlessly hostile, now run away and play with your toys little boy, nobody worry I've got a plan but only I'm allowed to know it, I sure hope all this unnecessary condescension at being asked totally reasonable questions won't bite me in the ass or deplete morale or anything lol"[/sp]. If you want a subplot about there [sp]being a spy onboard, then have a subplot about there being a spy onboard. There's no reason Finn and/or Rose shouldn't have told her how they were tracking them; I'm not against leaving things to the imagination, I'm not saying that you should spell everything out for the audience, but this whole thing just reeks of lazy writing. Especially considering a single throwaway line would have totally alleviated the issue.[/sp] I mean, that or [sp]ACTUALLY putting a spy on-board, so at least the Finn/Rose story would have some interesting connection to the main plot beyond "we need to find a maguffin man in the prequel casino".[/sp] [editline]3rd January 2018[/editline] Also, I hate to bring this back to the [sp]hyperspace ram[/sp], but it seemed really obvious to me why that doesn't happen often. [sp]For the same reason you don't see every military in the world just saying "FUCK IT, STRAP A NUKE TO A SUICIDE BOMBER". You think morale was low when Holdo was in-charge, imagine if their go-to attack strategy for every fight was light-speed jihad. It's generally considered immoral to send people on admitted suicide missions unless there's literally no other option; aside from that, ships are too big and expensive to just go ramming 'em into everyone. Holdo hit 'em in just the right way to take down a few Star Destroyers (which are weaker than Dreadnaughts by a LOT, and we saw a Dreadnaught get taken down by a few light fighters and a single bomber) and deal some decent damage to Snoke's bigass party ship.[/sp] "But why not just have [sp]an unmanned ship?" So we basically have a lightspeed missile that's the size of a cruiser. Cue the ENTIRE fleet of ships trying to take it down before it can get in position to make the jump to lightspeed; when you make a big superweapon, lots of little ships are gonna come try and take it down. Hux thought Holdo was running away to distract them; if he knew she was gonna ram them, she'd have gotten fucking vaporized the second she started turning.[/sp] "Well why not just have [sp]unmanned projectiles that are smaller and easier to manufacture?" If they're so easy to get, then that means everyone will have them (since, considering how much damage shit does when moving at the speed of light, all you'd need to do is strap a hyperdrive to a big rock and you're golden). Assuming that they don't immediately come up with some way to defend against this idiot savant innovation in redneck doomsday devices, then the conflict literally just devolves into two groups of idiots hyper-spacing big hunks of shit at each other from across the galaxy and the whole of the action in this series devolves into a big game of Pong. Also maybe some planets might get in the way to the point that you either get a clear shot (but hope you hit the button a nanosecond sooner than your enemy does) or you just say fuck it and send in the bombers like they did in the olden days.[/sp]

I'm really on the fence about Last Jedi, I guess my opinion will change at the conclusion of the trilogy, when I see where the whole thing is going.

It's a film of dizzying highs and depressing lows. I'd call it a net-positive, but that's only because I [sp]really like the Rey/Ren/Luke shit[/sp], goddamn Canto Bight was abysmal and [sp]Poe's storyline[/sp] honestly felt like a first draft.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;53023966]I saw a great explanation of Poe and Holdo's interactions in the movie. [sp]For the Holdo/ Poe stuff, there's a very good reason Holdo didn't tell Poe anything about the plan. First off, she's the Vice-Admiral and head of the entire organization. Poe is a Captain, recently demoted from Commander. Who just got a lot of people killed on a dangerous stunt. Holdo didn't have to tell Poe about the plan because that's not how military organizations work. If your commanding officer gives you an order, it can be part of your duty to express your feelings regarding it. However, once that has been said, it is still your job to follow through with that order, regardless of your feelings on it. Doing your own thing is reckless and dangerous, and it can- and did- get people killed. Poe was ordered to man his station. Which was kind of important as they were under constant attack and he might be needed at a moments notice. Instead he decided to play cowboy and make up his own plan because he didn't like what his boss told him, because it wasn't what he would do. Secondly, Holdo had no idea how they were being tracked through Hyperspace. Anyone or anything could be a spy, so Holdo had to keep her cards close to her vest. And, again, Poe was just a recently demoted Captain- not one of the higher chain of command. Now, what could have changed that is when Poe figured out how they were being tracked, he could have told Holdo. Let her know how the First Order was finding them. Instead, because he didn't like the way Holdo talked to him, he made up his own plan. Which, again, got people killed. Had he told Holdo, she could have let him know what they were going to do and why running off to the Casino Planet isn't a good idea.[/sp] [/QUOTE] Isn't this the explanation that's been posited multiple times already? It's also complete bunk, because [sp]Holdo's plan was likely to get the entire resistance killed anyway, unless TFO didn't bother to check whether anyone survived, and uhm, evacuated to the only planet nearby? They knew the resistance had transport ships - would they just assume that everyone decided to just stay on the big ship until it ran out of fuel and got blown up? It also raises the question of why it wasn't possible for Holdo or Leia to call off Poe's attack on the dreadnought. If you don't like the plan, tell everyone to go back regardless of what Poe says? You also have to question their leadership because they approved the prank call plan, despite it being probably the stupidest thing that happens in the movie. Oh, and it worked perfectly. I guess that's why they assume TFO is as dumb as they come? The spy explanation only kinda sorta works if Poe was the spy, and it really falls apart since the spy would've probably noticed that they - along with everyone else on the ship except Holdo were being evacuated to a nearby planet. Woops. Ignoring how asinine (along with everything else related to Canto Bight) it is that some lowly maintenance worker knew how hyperspace tracking worked (something even Snoke wasn't informed was even possible), didn't tell anyone else about, then meets up with Finn, the only guy who knows how to disable it (for some reason), Poe's plan was honestly the only course of action that had any chance of providing an actually good outcome for the resistance - one where they don't lose their last capital ship or most of their army. The chances of it failing to the spectacular degree that it did were basically nil, and the failure state was the exact same as the most likely outcome of Holdo's plan; someone thinking of the incredibly likely plan to leave the ship before it explodes. There's really no good excuse I've heard of yet. Everyone was being hilariously incompetent in this movie. Everyone (except BB-8 I guess, but that isn't a good thing).[/sp]

Haven't watched the new movies yet but I did re-watch every movie from Phantom Menace, to Empire Strikes Back. My favorite is definitely A New Hope. Probably been a decade since I last watched Star Wars. Thought people were exaggerating how terrible the prequels were, but fucking hell some of the dialogue (especially in Revenge of the Sith) were so terrible it made me laugh.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;53024354]Isn't this the explanation that's been posited multiple times already? It's also complete bunk, because [sp]Holdo's plan was likely to get the entire resistance killed anyway, unless TFO didn't bother to check whether anyone survived, and uhm, evacuated to the only planet nearby? They knew the resistance had transport ships - would they just assume that everyone decided to just stay on the big ship until it ran out of fuel and got blown up?[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]The First Order was cocky, and Crait is a lifeless ball of salt. They wouldn't have detected the transports leaving the Raddus, so they'd have no reason to suspect it. Remember, after the Raddus was evacuated Holdo took the ship and made it look like they were running away. The FO would probably assume it was a last ditch effort, not reason to suspect it was a ruse.[/sp] [editline]3rd January 2018[/editline] [sp]Size comparison between the Resistance Bomber and First Order Dreadnought https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/240485808509812737/398171989358936066/unknown.png[/sp]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;53024618][sp]The First Order was cocky, and Crait is a lifeless ball of salt. They wouldn't have detected the transports leaving the Raddus, so they'd have no reason to suspect it. Remember, after the Raddus was evacuated Holdo took the ship and made it look like they were running away. The FO would probably assume it was a last ditch effort, not reason to suspect it was a ruse.[/sp][/QUOTE] 1. [sp]You can always write a character to act a certain way if it's convenient. That doesn't make it good or believable writing. [/sp] 2. [sp]The first order wouldn't assume they would've done anything but keeping their distance until they ran out of fuel and then got blown up? Wouldn't they find it suspicious if the resistance made no attempt at self-preservation at all? Why would the resistance warp their entire fleet to a completely desolate system? Wouldn't it occur to TFO that they might just try to lie low until the TFO fleet gives up, even if there were no base on the planet?[/sp] I've been thinking about the plot, and honestly [sp]if you wanna portray Poe as a too headstrong character, why not make him come up with the idea of a spy? Instead of having the rebel command (and instead a lowly maintenance worker knows) not know about hyperspace tracking - at least after they were tracked - why not make it so it's "classified information"; basically only Leia and Holdo (maybe Ackbar as well, whatever) knows, and Poe is not privy to that information. Then make Poe come up with the fan theory that there might be a spy onboard, have him and Finn (drop Rose completely) fuck around onboard trying to rat out the spy, and then end up with a scene where Poe does the mutiny. Instead this time he's accusing Holdo of being the spy. Now Leia has to take him aside, call him an idiot, tell him about hyperspace tracking - and then let him know why they warped to this planet; they thought they might've been tracked, and now they're evacuating the crew to that planet. Except the big ship which they're gonna warp to another location, using the rest of the fuel that way - and hopefully draw the TFO fleet. Some of the resistance's remaining allies are just waiting for the TFO to warp out, then they're gonna go to the planet, and pick the resistance up. This shouldn't fuck too much with the rest of the plot - Snoke can still die, and Rey showed in TFA that she can find her way around (and probably out of) an enemy base, so why not assume she can do the same now. Or make Luke project himself in and help her out by fucking with Kylo, if you wanna do the same thing. Most important of all, Canto Bight isn't a thing, and Holdo seems like a little bit more competent? Like she has a plan that'll probably get the resistance out of there without assuming TFO will completely neglect looking into the slight possibility that they may have evacuated the ships? Still has some issues, but yeah. And sadly I guess the hyperspace ram moment would go, but hey, you gain some you lose some.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53021938][sp]I do really like the implication that Kylo is essentially "neutral", or leaning somewhat to the dark side. And hate to say it but the high-pants wearing prettyboy has a point, you can't "balance" the force by having it only be jedi. It's implied even in the new canon that during the times of Jedi/Light dominance that the ruling administrations became complacent and lazy, and instead of risking dark corruption, they became emotionless and stopped caring, which just led to lunacy. Also I hate to admit it but the fight scene in the throne room was cool as fuck and I wanted to see more of the Not Samurai[/sp][/QUOTE] Problem with that theory is that's not what balance is at all. Now with Disney it may become the theory, but under Lucas, Balance is "Zen balance", as in perfect harmony with life and existence, not "these two conflicted sides are evenly matched and powerful and you can attempt to master them all like the Yu Gi Ohs if you have the special spikey striped hair", this subject came up at the first Celebration and Lucas gave a huge ass answer that is very probably somewhere on the internet that was essentially a zen/hindu philosophy applied to the force were balance was achieved in being in tune with everything, which is how Yoda and Ben are able to hang around, they just changed states but are still in perfect with sync with the forces of creation, hence the blue glow. Pretty sure he repeated it in a old Wired interview that is mostly certainly on line.

[video]https://youtu.be/mj_sZXEUvVo[/video] [video]https://youtu.be/5A9SEa8_LPc[/video]

[QUOTE=RikohZX;53024007]I think one problem with the whole thing was that it felt like there were awkward recuts or something. [/QUOTE] Because there were? About a third of the movie is missing.

[QUOTE=27X;53025513]Because there were? About a third of the movie is missing.[/QUOTE] From what was posted a while ago about the cut scenes nothing of value was lost except maybe some actual character development with Finn/Rose.

If [sp]They'd just parked in the right place, that alien wouldn't have had a 'Seinfeld moment' and they may have succeeded[/sp]

[QUOTE=27X;53025513]Because there were? About a third of the movie is missing.[/QUOTE] Which isn't very uncommon.

[video=youtube;27UVRDqiqak]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27UVRDqiqak&feature=em-uploademail[/video]

To me the fact that the [sp]Canto Bight subplot accomplishes nothing is kind of the point. It does some decent attempts at character and world building but overall the fact that it fails is ultimately the point. Not only did it fail but if the characters doing it had just been patient and didn't jump to commit to some harebrained scheme things would have probably been better off for everyone. It's about taking a different look at the mission impossible shit you see in tons of movies including the originals. It's about saying "Hey, maybe ignoring your superiors so you can run off and do some storybook shit would actually fail hard and have major consequences". Don't just pay attention to the fact that the plan didn't work. Pay attention to how STUPID and irresponsible the plan is, and the fact that they decide to do it without telling anyone. Of course it failed, logically in most movies these kinds of plans SHOULD fail but don't because movie. It injects some realism and maturity in to the Star Wars universe, not in a sense of making the universe less fantastical but making people act like people and having things actually go wrong for the heroes the same way things will go wrong for anyone in real life.[/sp]

Honestly the lenght you guys would go to defend even the flaws about The Last Jedi pretty much [I]everyone[/I] agrees on (eve the people who overall liked it) keeps baffling me to no end. I can understand really [I]wanting[/I] to like a certain movie, but going out of one's way to ignore all its low points (or, even worse, sell them as high points) is something I will never be able to understand

I don't like most of the Canto Bight sequence, but I can see it's contribution to the overall story, that video I posted gives the positives. The person who made the video I linked didn't like the sequence either, but he can see what it added to the movie. [editline]4th January 2018[/editline] Han Solo movie leak [sp]https://i.redd.it/xzcrphev33801.jpg It's a lego 'Imperial Range Trooper', no real proof that it's real, and even if it is, not everything Lego makes shows up in the films. Looks similar to this http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Navy_commando[/sp]

[sp]TLJ wasn't the first time something hit something else while jumping to hyperspace in canon https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/948989718212968448 Nor is it the first time Force Ghosts have effected the real world (Qui-Gon lifted Yoda up if you can't tell) https://twitter.com/quigonsmith/status/948995272075509760 [/sp]

[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;53026236][I]stop liking what i dont like[/I][/QUOTE] Is it illegal to that [editline]5th January 2018[/editline] Is it illegal to discuss a movies possible downsides?

[sp]So Rey being the one to find Luke and try and bring him out of hiding was another one of those Ideas the came from the time where George was still working on the sequel stories. According to the art books. I really wonder how much was guided by those notes. I'm guessing some of it is used as a basic outline. We know Ep9 was meant to be a Leia film so there had to be some sort of basic outline that far ahead[/sp] [editline]4th January 2018[/editline] Box art for the Solo Lego sets has leaked, and it uses that key art that was leaked earlier Spoilers, I guess. [URL]https://imgur.com/a/E458t[/URL]

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;53026188]To me the fact that the [sp]Canto Bight subplot accomplishes nothing is kind of the point. It does some decent attempts at character and world building but overall the fact that it fails is ultimately the point. Not only did it fail but if the characters doing it had just been patient and didn't jump to commit to some harebrained scheme things would have probably been better off for everyone. It's about taking a different look at the mission impossible shit you see in tons of movies including the originals. It's about saying "Hey, maybe ignoring your superiors so you can run off and do some storybook shit would actually fail hard and have major consequences". Don't just pay attention to the fact that the plan didn't work. Pay attention to how STUPID and irresponsible the plan is, and the fact that they decide to do it without telling anyone. Of course it failed, logically in most movies these kinds of plans SHOULD fail but don't because movie. It injects some realism and maturity in to the Star Wars universe, not in a sense of making the universe less fantastical but making people act like people and having things actually go wrong for the heroes the same way things will go wrong for anyone in real life.[/sp][/QUOTE] I agree with all of that, the problem is that Canto Blight as its own solitary thing sucks hard. The world isn't interesting at all beyond its concept, it doesn't have any memorable visuals or design, the [sp]animal chase sequence followed by "WE REALLY STUCK IT TO THEM BY RELEASING THESE SPACE HORSES FOR THEM TO ROUND UP IN TWENTY MINUTES"[/sp] is beyond groanworthy, and it utterly fails to develop Finn or Rose as characters. If anything it reinforces how bland Rose is. If it were a fun diversion on its own it'd be fine, but it just has zero value as its own standalone segment. Thematic value isn't enough.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;53026917][sp] Box art for the Solo Lego sets has leaked, and it uses that key art that was leaked earlier Spoilers, I guess. [URL]https://imgur.com/a/E458t[/URL][/QUOTE] Oh god they're really [sp] going with the forkless falcon being the "factory default design" aren't they[/sp]