Star Wars Megathread Episode IV: A New Thread: UNTAGGED SPOILERS? 1 WEEK BAN
5,000 replies, posted
[QUOTE=overwatch pvt;53026986]Oh god they're really [sp] going with the forkless falcon being the "factory default design" aren't they[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]The prongs are the default design according to existing lore, this is probably a modification Lando made that Han reverts.[/sp]
[sp]I really don't want to see the Kessel Run explained on screen.[/sp]
"the leaked poster was a fake"
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/fqZuui6.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=meppers;53027014]"the leaked poster was a fake"
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/fqZuui6.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Disney said it didn't originate from them, they didn't say it's fake
[t]https://i.imgur.com/WchpnIQ.jpg[/t]
[url=https://haynes.com/en-gb/millennium-falcon-manual]Found this page from the book through the link. Guess we'll have to wait for the movie to find out if they've gone with this explanation.[/url]
[quote]To me the fact that the [sp] Canto Bight subplot accomplishes nothing is kind of the point. [/sp][/quote]
Okay.
[quote]It does some decent attempts at character[/quote]
No. Just no. Bad dialogue and a bare bones, but also surprisingly plot convenient backstory, doesn't a "decent attempt at character" make. Maybe it could've been, but can you tell me exactly what we learn about the characters other than [sp]Rose's backstory? That Rose stops talking or thinking about her sister the minute there's "important" plot to advance?[/sp]
[quote][sp]and world building but overall the fact that it fails is ultimately the point. Not only did it fail but if the characters doing it had just been patient and didn't jump to commit to some harebrained scheme things would have probably been better off for everyone.[/sp][/quote]
This point is, again, completely undermined by the fact that equally dumb plans succeed - [sp]see Poe's prank call (I don't think I can mention this enough) or Rey's "Hey I'll just go to the big ship with no planning, talk to the guy, and hey whoops we killed Snoke and I got out alive with no planning ahead. This definitely shows that patience and good planning are super necessary to not fuck up". This is only further underscored by the implication that the Canto Bight plan would've succeed if they had parked their ship properly. The fact that the Star Wars equivalent of a parking ticket brought about the destruction of most of the Resistance is sorta hilarious (-ly dumb), but it also shows that plans don't fail because they're poorly thought out, but because characters make some hilariously incompetent decisions (or scriptwriter's convenience, however you want to look at it). Wouldn't the "point" be stronger if Finn and Rose had actually done everything right, but the plan was just unlikely to work in the first place? What if they had actually found the real codebreaker, but they were just arrested on the ship out of bad luck (and some actual competence on the part of the first order)? You know, something "realistic"? Also speaking of dumb plans that are unlikely to succeed, good thing BB-8 could pilot that AT-ST, huh? We couldn't leave "major" characters to die, after all - cue the dumb, conveniently prolonged and escapable execution. Wow, this really injects some realism into the movie![/sp]
[quote][sp]It's about taking a different look at the mission impossible shit you see in tons of movies including the originals. It's about saying "Hey, maybe ignoring your superiors so you can run off and do some storybook shit would actually fail hard and have major consequences". Don't just pay attention to the fact that the plan didn't work. Pay attention to how STUPID and irresponsible the plan is, and the fact that they decide to do it without telling anyone. Of course it failed, logically in most movies these kinds of plans SHOULD fail but don't because movie.[/sp][/quote]
The problem is that the movie wants it both ways. You can't make a point about "bad" plans not succeeding, then have equally bad plans actually work and be super important to the plot. I don't have an issue with some plans failing and others succeeding, but it [i]becomes[/i] a problem if you try to make a """"point"""" about it. "Points" only work if your movie is internally consistent about it. You can't chastise some characters for believing a bad plan could work, when it's established that it works out for everyone else with an equally awful plan. It literally breaks with the movies own logic - in the Star Wars universe (even in TLJ), unlikely plans are established to be perfectly capable of working out great most of the time. It's very much obvious that plans in the Star Wars universe succeed or fail based on sheer dumb luck (and that's okay!), not how well-planned out it was.
[quote][sp]It injects some realism and maturity in to the Star Wars universe, not in a sense of making the universe less fantastical but making people act like people and having things actually go wrong for the heroes the same way things will go wrong for anyone in real life.[/sp][/quote]
No, it doesn't. [sp]Canto Bight shows the least realistic and immature side of these characters - their ship exploding (which must mean to them that their plan of saving all their friends (and the good in the universe) has failed) only nets us a >>>funny<<< "Oh come on!" from Finn. And when they release the cutesy animals, it was "all worth it" because they made some rich people (WHO ARE ALL ASSHOLES OKAY HEY WHAT'S NUANCE) temporairly embarrassed. Ignoring the aspect of the mission failing not being consistent compared to the rest of the plot, it's also internally inconsistent considering how unlikely their escape from the jail was. BB-8 Ex Machina up the ass, and good thing we found that extra hacker guy right in out cell!!! Trying to somehow shapeshift Canto Bight into some sort of poignant point is a worthless exercise in ignoring everything bad and inconsistent about it.[/sp]
Edit:
Actually, thinking about themes [sp]Holdo's plan (and character) is sorta the antithesis of what Star Wars is - or at least has been. Star Wars has always been about a small Rebellion prevailing over the Empire through high risk high reward plans, relying on your intuition, and prevailing against all odds. In the first movie, someone (sorta cynically) remarks that no one could hit a target so small as that ventilation shaft; but Luke does it by relying on his intuition (or the force or whatever you wanna call it). If that hadn't worked out, the entire rebellion would've been destroyed. In RotJ, Leia (!!!) is part of multiple high risk high reward plans - rescuing Han Solo from Jabba's palace, destroying the shield bunker, and someone flies the Falcon down a very tight shaft to destroy the core of the death star. Star Wars has never been about playing it safe - and it makes sense; the Rebellion could never truly prevail over the Empire if it always played it safe (maybe evading destruction, but never dealing any kind of decisive blow to the Empire), simply because of their insignificant size. As late as in TFA, the concept was basically the same (probably because it was just a retread of IV, but still) - they go through hyperspace to get within the shields of the Starkiller base, and destroy its shields in an unlikely plan. High risk, high reward allows them to overcome the much larger force.
On the other hand, Holdo's plan does nothing but keep the resistance on life support. At no point does her plan allow them to strike any kind of blow to the First Order. At best they're stuck on a small, defunct base with maybe a dozen shitty, old outdated fighters that can't even leave the planet - and worst of all: No allies in the outer rim. How are they supposed to rise again? At worst The First Order would realize that they had hid on the planet, and the resistance would have NOWHERE to go. Not a chance. It's not even a low risk, low reward plan - it's a "lower" risk, no reward plan. The fact that Leia, who's been succeeding with unlikely plans all her life, would approve of this plan is honestly basically out of character.
The irony is that Holdo's biggest achievement is doing the hyperspace thing, something fans theorizes to have a very low chance of succeeding just a few pages ago. If she hadn't done that, nothing beyond Rey's unlikely plan would've dealt any kind of blow to the FO in the entire movie. Holdo's character should've been proven wrong - perhaps by Leia. Holdo just wants to save as many lives as possible, play it as safe as possible; which is completely understandable. But Leia should overcome that cynicism, prevail against the cynics that say they could've done nothing. Instead all that matters is apparently having a (pseudo-) Jedi on your team? I don't like it.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Tuskin;53026917]
[editline]4th January 2018[/editline]
Box art for the Solo Lego sets has leaked, and it uses that key art that was leaked earlier
Spoilers, I guess.
[URL]https://imgur.com/a/E458t[/URL][/QUOTE]
[sp]Lando only comes in one set. I hope this doesn't reflect how much he's actually in the film[/sp]
[QUOTE=Takuat;53027526][sp]Lando only comes in one set. I hope this doesn't reflect how much he's actually in the film[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]I wouldn't worry about it, LEGO does this all the time with popular characters. They stick them in the highest priced sets so folks have to pay more to get their favourite character.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Pikmin Master;53027042][t]https://i.imgur.com/WchpnIQ.jpg[/t]
[URL="https://haynes.com/en-gb/millennium-falcon-manual"]Found this page from the book through the link. Guess we'll have to wait for the movie to find out if they've gone with this explanation.[/URL][/QUOTE]
I think they may have been inspired by that
So i'm coming late to the party, but i think the [sp]Leia scene could have been fixed by cutting the movement. If it showed her hand moving, her eyes start to open, then cut away, and the next thing we saw of her was her hand on the glass, it could have been a more "Mysteries of the force" kind of thing. I'm not saying it would have made the scene good, just not as ridiculous. Honestly having someone catch her, or her grab something would have been a better scene, like a sudden scare, rather than a cop-out.[/sp]
[QUOTE=SFC003;53027013][sp]I really don't want to see the Kessel Run explained on screen.[/sp][/QUOTE]
It's really unfortunate, and i think in some ways a bit annoying, how they've utterly missed the original intention of the line in the movie and what it was supposed to convey. It's something that immediately defines what sort of character he was meant to be, but now they're changing it so it's now a pretty meaningless statement in that context. Originally [sp] The line about the Kessel run was supposed to be him trying to brag by using an impressive sounding statement that [I]clearly[/I] wasn't actually true, according to Obi-wans reaction in the script. There's a huge difference between "I'll lie/bluff to them to make myself look good" and "Here's a thing i actually did you might have heard of" and what that says about the character. To have it now canon that he [I]actually did[/I] make the Kessel run, rather than it being just him trying to make himself look good, completely changes the tone of it and misses what it was meant to be there for. Han was [I]not[/I] a nice character (at first), acting link a con-man/swindler fit with his personality.[/sp]
If she [sp]entered like an avatar state and just eerily floated to the door, like a ghost or an angel, it would have been fine. But instead they dolled her up like one of the Golden Girls and had her fly there like Superman, outstretched arm and everything. I'm glad they let Carrie Fisher ride into the sunset instead of recutting the film to kill her off, but that scene was fundamentally flawed from a design standpoint from the get-go.[/sp]
[QUOTE=nightlord;53028129]It's really unfortunate, and i think in some ways a bit annoying, how they've utterly missed the original intention of the line in the movie and what it was supposed to convey. It's something that immediately defines what sort of character Han was meant to be, but now they're changing it so it's now a pretty meaningless statement. Originally [sp] The line about the Kessel run was supposed to be him trying to brag by using impressive sounding statement that [I]clearly[/I] wasn't actually true, according to Ob-wans reaction in the script. There's a huge difference between "I'll lie/bluff to them to make myself look good" and "Here's a thing i actually did you might have heard of" and what that says about the character. To have it now canon that he [I]actually did[/I] make the Kessel run, rather than it being just him trying to make himself look good, completely changes the tone of it and misses what it was meant to be there for[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]This is another thing you can possibly blame George Lucas for, he explained how the Falcon did the Kessel Run in the movie commentary, from wookieepedia
"In a commentary track on the Star Wars Blu-ray release, George Lucas stated that ships in the Star Wars universe can't travel in straight lines while in hyperspace due to collisions with celestial objects. Thus, distance is an important factor in how quickly a ship can get from point A to point B. The Millennium Falcon's superior navigation computer allowed it to travel shorter distances between points and arrive faster."[/sp]
[sp] So did that kid at the end force pull that broom? [/sp]
Someones gotta ask the real questions.
Edit: This is a legit question by the way
[QUOTE=Tuskin;53028132][sp]This is another thing you can possibly blame George Lucas for, he explained how the Falcon did the Kessel Run in the movie commentary, from wookieepedia
"In a commentary track on the Star Wars Blu-ray release, George Lucas stated that ships in the Star Wars universe can't travel in straight lines while in hyperspace due to collisions with celestial objects. Thus, distance is an important factor in how quickly a ship can get from point A to point B. The Millennium Falcon's superior navigation computer allowed it to travel shorter distances between points and arrive faster."[/sp][/QUOTE]
But I think that was after everyone took the statement at face value and the Kessel Run became an established feat in the EU, innit?
I honestly think the EU is far guiltier of horribly mangling things than anything in new canon, it's just that the nature of EU let fans mentally pick and choose what they considered true and what they just ignored to a far greater extent.
Maybe they should just turn the Kessel Run into Han's personal unsanctioned drag race. The plot of the movie is trying to get the Falcon out of the Empire's impound lot.
[QUOTE=SFC003;53028527]Maybe they should just turn the Kessel Run into Han's personal unsanctioned drag race. The plot of the movie is trying to get the Falcon out of the Empire's impound lot.[/QUOTE]
That'd actually be really fun, especially since Harrison Ford only got the part because he worked with George Lucas on American Graffiti.
Still doesn't have a candle to that one idea where The Kessel Run is [sp]a line of bullshit that Lando feeds Han, who ends up using it on Luke and Ben later on[/sp].
So the set names and minifigure lists for each Solo Lego set have been leaked
(Spoilers I suppose):
[sp]75209 – Han Solo’s Speeder
Minifigures: Han Solo, Qi’Ra, Corellian Hound
75210 – Moloch’s Speeder
Minifigures: Moloch, Rebolt, Corellian Hounds(2)
75211 – Imperial TIE Fighter
Minifigures: Mimban Stormtrooper, Imperial Pilot, Han Solo (Imperial Disguise), Tobias Beckett (Imperial Disguise)
75212 – Kessel Run Millenium Falcon
Minifigures: Qi’Ra, Han Solo, Chewbacca, Lando Calrissian, Quay Tolsite, Kessel Operations Droid, DD-BD
75207 – Imperial Patrol Battle Pack
Minifigures: Imperial Officer, Death Star Trooper (Female), Stormtroopers (2)
So I guess Emila Clarke's character name is actually Qi'ra and not the rumored "Kira".[/sp]
[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;53028761]Still doesn't have a candle to that one idea where The Kessel Run is [sp]a line of bullshit that Lando feeds Han, who ends up using it on Luke and Ben later on[/sp].[/QUOTE]
[sp]They can't do that because the actual run is already canon, it is a real thing[/sp]
[editline]5th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=admiralt;53028785]
[sp]75211 – Imperial TIE Fighter
Minifigures: Mimban Stormtrooper, Imperial Pilot, Han Solo (Imperial Disguise), Tobias Beckett (Imperial Disguise)[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]Mimban? That's a planet from Splinter of the Minds Eye. It was also originally going to be used in Rogue One, but was replaced by Jedha[/sp]
[QUOTE=Tuskin;53028980][sp]They can't do that because the actual run is already canon, [/sp][/QUOTE]
Sure that's not EU?
[QUOTE=Sableye;53029002]Sure that's not EU?[/QUOTE]
The route is canon
[URL]http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run[/URL]
Han actually doing it in 12 parsecs could be a lie.
I hate how people obsess over that fucking line in particular. It doesn't need to be anything more than it is; a line of bullshit from Han.
Yet nobody mentions a lot of other questionable lines, like that time Han says he'll "see you in Hell" in Empire
[QUOTE=jackattack;53028820]Can we trust Star Wars fans to not take something at face value and blow it out of proportion?
Obi-Wan's homeworld is canonically Stewjon. Fuck Star Wars fans i'm glad the EU is dead.[/QUOTE]
:what:
[QUOTE=Tuskin;53028980][sp]They can't do that because the actual run is already canon, it is a real thing[/sp]
[editline]5th January 2018[/editline]
[sp]Mimban? That's a planet from Splinter of the Minds Eye. It was also originally going to be used in Rogue One, but was replaced by Jedha[/sp][/QUOTE]
Also mentioned in clone wars
[QUOTE=jackattack;53028820]Can we trust Star Wars fans to not take something at face value and blow it out of proportion?
Obi-Wan's homeworld is canonically Stewjon. Fuck Star Wars fans i'm glad the EU is dead.[/QUOTE]
I was reading about the Jedi Council in the prequels and ending up learning that the first guy who gets killed when Mace and some other guys confront Sidious had a blue lightsaber in Episode 3, but a green one in Episode 2. So instead of saying "oh, this guy got a different lightsaber" or "oh, they fucked up and forgot it used to be green" some motherfucker decided [i]he obviously has a lightsaber with TWO crystals so it can be green or blue whenever he wants![/i] I mean, OBVIOUSLY that's what is happening here. This no-dialogue having shitter background character who dies in a single blow within the first 3 seconds of a pointless duel with 3 other guys helping him was so amazing and incredible he had to have a lightsaber with the magical ability to change colors thereby solving the mystery of the lazy special effects department.
What is it with this fucking franchise and taking tiny mistakes and unimportant throwaway lines and turning them into actual goddamn lore, it's completely baffling
I don't mind the Kessel Run to be a real thing, I just don't want Han to "do it in 12 parsecs".
Basically have him be like a F1 pilot boasting about a good time on the Nuremberg track to someone who doesn't know shit about F1. The name ring a bell because it is well known, but you have no references for what that time actually is on that track, so it sounds good.
[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;53018156]I hope we never see the kessel run, but for Lando to use that line on Han like Han used it on Luke and Obi Wan.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=New Cidem;53029821]I was reading about the Jedi Council in the prequels and ending up learning that the first guy who gets killed when Mace and some other guys confront Sidious had a blue lightsaber in Episode 3, but a green one in Episode 2. So instead of saying "oh, this guy got a different lightsaber" or "oh, they fucked up and forgot it used to be green" some motherfucker decided [i]he obviously has a lightsaber with TWO crystals so it can be green or blue whenever he wants![/i] I mean, OBVIOUSLY that's what is happening here. This no-dialogue having shitter background character who dies in a single blow within the first 3 seconds of a pointless duel with 3 other guys helping him was so amazing and incredible he had to have a lightsaber with the magical ability to change colors thereby solving the mystery of the lazy special effects department.
What is it with this fucking franchise and taking tiny mistakes and unimportant throwaway lines and turning them into actual goddamn lore, it's completely baffling[/QUOTE]
Remember when Samuel L Jackson asked George if he could have a purple lightsaber because he wanted to be unique/he likes purple/he wanted his family to be able to see him the the Wipeout scenes where people got jacked, and George was like, yeah ok whatever, and fans made having a purple lightsaber mean like 30 different things over the course of books and stories and now the definition of what having a purple lightsaber means is so muddled and contradictory to itself that it matters even less than what it began as?
[editline]6th January 2018[/editline]
This guy
[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/b/bb/Willrow-hood.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080518233740[/img]
Fucking ice cream machine man has over 1000 words worth of backstory and info on wookiepedia. His name is Willrow Hood look him up.
