TF2 Random Critical Hits: A Fair and Balanced Discussion
669 replies, posted
It's bad to falsely accuse other people of doing stuff
Especially when its something that you have admitted to doing:
That has to be the single most retarded thing i have ever read on this forum, bar none.
And then you lauchr
Mods: i vote we rename this to the ASIC Quarantine Discussion, i mean it already has the biohazard symbol already.
So it is ok to call someone a child molester, but it isn't ok for them to do the same in return?
"I know you are but what am I"? Really? Is that what this thread is devolving into?
I think it had started off like that.
The thread started off fine, it was the idea that a topic that literally only you and two other people, who all parrot the same "okay but why?" answers, argued for could be anything other than that. That's what did the thread in.
the only good thing to come out of this thread was the ASIC enlightenment post
https://i.imgur.com/BBbdKKV.png
everything else here should be wiped from existence
So you express shock, instead of making an argument. You act like what I said is obviously wrong, but if it is so obviously wrong then why can't you explain the issue with it?
Did you also miss what I said right under that line?
the higher skilled team should win pretty much every time
see, the thing you’re missing is that a fight shouldn’t be decided on who rolled better. Sure you can claim “preforming better gives you better odds at crits” but in the end isn’t it still a dice roll?
He still hasn't actually presented any counterarguments to this post I made:
I will get to it. I have a bunch of posts I need to respond to, as there were a lot of posters in the thread.
petiton to permaban @ASIC if he dodges a question by making another question.
How do you know that is the specific reason it was added? Was there some developer commentary you found?
Also, you didn't mention standing/crouching inaccuracy in your post.
Moving inaccuracy doesn't exactly punish players with bad movement. It punishes full speed movement, and it is only really significant with certain weapons.
You can try to crouch strafe (a terrible idea) in the middle of a fight and get decent accuracy.
Your complaints about crits in tf2 could also be said about the RNG in CS:GO as well.
Weapon inaccuracy can give bad players free kills, and can punish the better player for being unlucky.
While it affects everyone the same, it is less likely to help good players as they would get kills without being lucky.
oh shit hes banned bois
So where have I done that?
Can we permaban people who make accusations against me and refuse to provide proof when asked?
@ASIC "Weapon inaccuracy can give bad players free kills, and can punish the better player for being unlucky.
While it affects everyone the same, it is less likely to help good players as they would get kills without being lucky."
So can you give a quick recap, why is this a good thing?
Yes actually. I'm pretty sure that Gooseman said that it was to make the game harder in an interview. I have zero chance of finding that though because that's 20 years of interviews to sift through.
First shot crouch accuracy is basically irrelevant at good levels of play, crouching mainly is used as a tool for moving your head below someones preaim as a mixup when you're peeking them. If you're spraying someone down it's optimal to crouch after the 4th shot at most ranges, but does come with the downside of making you very easy to trade. Whilst on the topic of first shot (in)accuracy, when set up correctly it does actually increase the aim skill ceiling through only guaranteeing a headshot at long ranges to a player who manages to aim at the center of the head hitbox, and on the current standard map pool there are very few sensible angles which are too long and cause unavoidable misses for an AK. This rewards someone who aims at the center of the head over someone who is aiming at the very edge, as they will over time miss shots due to it. It's also important to note that the volatility added by this is in an ideal world very minor and entirely player controlled.
Movement in relation to aim in CS is a lot more complex than standing still, even in 1.6 where you got moving inaccuracy from being above like 10u/s you still had options during a fight depending on the range. Pro's could ADAD well enough to fire accurately without waiting on the counter strafe, which is fucking hard it's like 3 ticks max at 100tick. The same applies to CSGO but it's slightly less tight on the timing. Being able to effectively time your shots with your strafes and peeks is hard, and it's why players like ScreaM and NiKo are so insane when they can just fly out and seemingly running 1tap you every time even though they're actually just counter strafing really well. These are all skill based usages of the mechanic, which are entirely under the control of the player.
Running inaccuracy is significant with basically every weapon other than maybe the glock. If you watch pro matches you'll see that they actually counter strafe with every gun if the enemy isn't point blank and they're commiting to an actual aim fight rather than just a spam or prefire.
TF2 random crits, however, do not add any of the mechanical skill detailed above due to you not having to perform a conscious action which you ordinarily would not in order to benefit from them. The only method you have of controlling them is damaging the enemy, which is something you will be doing anyway. It'd be like your guns getting more accurate in CS only when you shot people, it just makes no sense for a competitive game.
As an aside; you don't actually get the same inaccuracy from crouchwalking, it's marginally worse.
I don't think you can really call it good or bad, It's subjective.
That wasn't a question I responded to and I didn't just respond with a question.
Note the lines below the only one you happened to have in your cropped quote/image.
Evidence A: @ASIC doesnt evade/Deflect a Question/Rebutal to his arguments with another Question.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/132767/0a616a43-8d9b-4da5-b4eb-7d222262a4dc/screenshot-forum.facepunch.com-2018.04.07-13-11-10.jpeg
Evidence B: ASIC does evade/deflect a question/rebutal to his arguments with another question.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/132767/06319267-b341-48b1-9b0c-571e1839d53c/screenshot-forum.facepunch.com-2018.04.07-13-14-49.jpeg
Evidence C: Asic answers to this claim by using the keywords "asuming", "implying" and "proof"
Not accurate to what happened, see below:
Someone asked a question about what the consensus on random crits was. I said it was close to a 50/50 divide.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/238427/41f29e92-ecd6-4171-b78d-b9b49defe113/TRSAH.png
TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V6
Your post was related to mine, but it could not have been a rebuttal to what I had said. This is because you didn't actually disagree with anything I said there.
You didn't dispute that it was a 50/50 divide on liking random crits, or that the majority of people on facepunch disliked random crits.
You just posted the reason for why you thought that was the case.
does answering a question with a question answers a question if said question questions that the question has to imply the answer so the person doing the original question has to answer his own question instead who was being questioned in the first place?
Nothing makes me say "God! I love life!" more than being greeted by a crit rocket after exiting spawn. Or that a guy kills me 3 times with a random crit every time we met,.
Subjective? Yes. Should I improve? Absolutely. Are random crits worse than [insert your own/religious institution definition or evil]? Yes.
comparing tf2 random crits to counter strike random spread is so stupid, RNG spread (that is supposed to be controlled) is integral to cs's game design, you dont see pro tourneys turning off random spread in csgo now do you? because its meant to be apart of the game. but in EVERY tf2 tourney its turned off (even in valve comp)
Not all of them and not exactly OP.
They would probably get stronger though if random crits were removed.
Here are a few examples, there wouldn't be much reason to use stock over these:
Cow-Mangler 5000. The downsides only really matter against engineers.
Half-Zatoichi. The downsides barely matter, as you are only going to pull out your melee as a last resort.
Diamondback. It only gets stronger if you can't get random crits.
Bushwacka. This one is a bit more iffy, you need jarate.
But they don't get stronger. Nothing happens to them if crits are removed.
What do you mean by that?
The weapon in effect loses a downside. The "no random crits" trait on the alternate weapon is meaningless if you couldn't get random crits at all with the default weapon.
Something else getting worse doesn't make something independent of it objectively superior.
Yes, I was speaking relatively.
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