• Super Smash Bros. V8 - Everyone is here! Except that one character you like.
    999 replies, posted
as much as people screamed in excitement at the thought of wavedashing in ultimate, I really hope it doesn't happen unless its much easier to do. I have small sensitive hands and trying to do that crap really hurts after a little bit
Wavelanding is fine, it's really easy to do Wavedashing though, yeah, either make it an actual mechanic with consistent execution and rational limitations, or keep it out
I just do not understand why the competitive community is clamouring for jank and intuitive "tech" to return when it can be replaced with a better system that isn't awkward. Like I've seen people who really want L cancelling back. Why? I don't understand, the lower landing lag totally replaces the need for it.
They need to feel like hackers or something by doing wierd shit and thinking they're champs. They're not, they're chumps. fite me chumps
While we're on feature requests, you know what I think would be nice? A "quick start" option in match settings. When enabled, all character intros play simultaneously, and the announcer does a Melee style "Ready... GO!"
mew2king obviously doesnt represent the entire scene but he hates L canceling and appreciates how Ultimate does it automatically now
M2K is very blunt with his opinions of Melee Even going so far as calling some advanced techs like super wavedashing "actual cancer" in livestreams
Yeah, M2K is about one of the few comps I actually kinda like. You're kidding, right? Now what?
Performing backdashes is extremely inconsistent unless your controller's analog stick is significantly softer (IE, it doesn't vibrate as much after snapping back to neutral) than it's supposed to be.
Ohhh, understandable people think they might show a nee DK rep, but to be honest I'm expecting it on the next Nintendo Direct like you. Still, if King K. Rool gets upgraded from a Mii costume to playable fighter I'll be really happy. That or Dixie Kong will do.
Hm, I actually sorta sympathize as far as the sticks themselves are concerned. I don't really like it either when sticks "ricochet" to the opposite direction when snapping back to center.
L cancelling is just adding an input for the sake of an input. It adds no options or risk like wavedashing or teching and just asks you to learn one extra thing to play optimally. I understand people wanting to add movement options but raising the skill ceiling by adding inputs for the sake of complicating the game is such a shitty way to do things. I'm glad Ultimate it taking the best case scenario with how to treat end lag.
To be fair, teching doesn't really add any sort of option either. It's the same thing as L-cancelling - either you do it and benefit or you don't and not. And wavedashing is just a mess.
At least techs are a reflex test, asking you to anticipate being hit and react in time. Meanwhile, that is not an element of L canceling. You always know when to L cancel, which is all the time, so there's no reactionary part to it at all.
And hitting people into the stage to stage spike is a good KO option if they don't see it coming. Making techs automatic would just remove that function. Same with on-stage spikes to juggle
Aren't you thinking of perfect shields?
Do you know what techs are
If you anticipate being hit means you know that you can't block or dodge it
It's what Sakurai officially refers to as "ukemi"; it's hitting shield right as you hit an object you're careening into after getting hit. I just don't see how teching requires much reflex because it's pretty obvious when you're gonna hit the stage after you're already hit.
If it's from some distance sure, but if you are close to or even touching a wall, it takes some decent reflexes and knowledge to realize that you need to tech.
We've actually gotten 4 Fire Emblem remixes in Ultimate so far. Two of existing songs ( [1] [2] ), and two new inclusions ( [3] [4] ). Personally loving Lucina's Destiny (Ablaze). Right now I'm just hoping they add Pride and Arrogance from SoV, and replace Power-Hungry Fool with the superior Oliver theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pIEGHSE_1k
Choosing not to tech can sometimes be a strategy too. L-canceling is always a good thing to do, it's just an extra input for the sake of it. Also when you tech you can decide if you want to stay in place, roll left or roll right. If techs were automatic it would result in a lot of accidental inputs.
I've seen someone say you can somehow throw off someone's L-cancel timing in a match and you can get a punish for it, and that alone is enough to justify its existence. Even if that were in any way a viable tactic, it's the sort of thing that's so small it wouldn't really make a difference.
https://twitter.com/theSirToasty/status/1016123881231454208
100% agree with this, especially since some characters' intros are way shorter than others, so the camera ends up whipping around, cutting some intros off while flat-out missing others.
In theory yes, but the only way to do that is by somehow pulling out your shield early enough and angle it towards the enemy while they're doing an aerial, making them land a few frames later than usual. Maybe then a pro would miss an L-cancel. Maybe. But moving your shield is the most awkward thing to do since if you tilt it too much you'll roll instead. It's not really an interesting mechanic even if there was a justifiable risk-reward system to it. It's better off dead.
Things like L-cancelling and wavedashing are besides the point of what makes Melee fun. You can be a pro Melee player with no techskill; it's not vital to the game at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3huKJYL5Hog The game still has weight and momentum allowing for lots of different follow-ups. That's a better design philosophy than literally increasing the speed on everything just so the game returns to neutral faster. SmUsh looks like Sm4sh with no ad breaks, like you're playing a waltz but at a faster tempo. Why can't it be Melee with ledgetrumping and a lower technical skill ceiling instead? Casuals aren't gonna care either way, they already got every character they could ever want. Personally I'd like a game that'd be fun to play even if it wasn't a content orgy.
Please don't make "SmUsh" the actual fan nickname for the new game; this isn't directed at anyone in particular, but just anyone who does call Ultimate that. It sounds really fucking dumb lol
I'm just going to keep saying Smash U like I have been throughout Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and still be right.
I disagree. I'm sleepy and might not be able to word this properly, but I've always held that the idea of "casuals don't care how the gameplay is, so long as they have their shiny things" is not only insulting, but untrue. It's not just that casuals will accept certain things that hardcore players won't, the opposite is also true - each camp likes things that the other outright hates. There have been quite a few changes in later Smash installments that made casual players happy but pissed off more hardcore ones, but I imagine that if those changes were reverted we would see the vice-versa reaction. Hell, ledge-trumping is a big example of that; deliberate edgehogging to deny an opponent's recovery from a fall KO is a big strategy in competitive Smash, but the removal of any sort of edgehogging from Smash 4 was seen as a major quality-of-life improvement for everyone else. Do you know how much it would suck if that were removed from Ultimate? And while the following opinion isn't that prevalent on here (outside of myself, anyway), I do see people saying how they appreciated the later games slowing the pace of gameplay down because it just feels better to them. Hell, one of my big worries with Ultimate is that they might be making it too fast again, not because "Vin hates comp grrr", but because I just prefer the slower pace. And of course air-dodging is the classic argument, with how the Melee version was outright useless for actually dodging things but the Brawl-onward version is decried for being "too good" for those used to the Melee one on top of the whole "can't wavedash" thing. Moving away from Smash for a moment, the other game where I see casual and hardcore preferences rubbing up against each other a lot and causing these kinds of arguments is TF2. There is a contingent of players - not necessarily a large one, but they're there - who want the weapons to be balanced entirely around "standard" 6v6 (y'know - two Scouts, two Soldiers, Demoman, Medic) whereas another contingent would think that would suck if Valve did that, and that latter contingent usually considers themselves the casual camp - hell, I'm one of them. I mean, more than once there's been some weapon whose design at the time was defended by TF2 comps for being "the only thing making [class] viable in competitive play" but were seen as an utter cancer by more casual players - off the top of my head, Dead Ringer and Axtinguisher, a.k.a. "Spy's BS insta-shield" and "Pyro's OHKO stick" - that were eventually nerfed because of this. I... don't really have anywhere I was going with this post - again, I'm sleepy - but yeah. I just disagree with the "casuals don't care just so long as they have their toys" thing, and that's why. There are some comp-minded suggestions that would just make the game less fun for people like me, and again, not just because "comp players grr".
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