Super Smash Bros. V8 - Everyone is here! Except that one character you like.
999 replies, posted
And just because you don't find them fun doesn't automatically make them bad. There might even be casual players that like the inclusion of certain things more despite you disliking them. I can almost guarantee that most people would agree that faster, more fluid movement in a game based on platform fighting feels better too. I remember back in the Brawl days, the only reason my brother and I enjoyed it was Subspace Emissary and the larger cast in spite of the actual system changes. Neither of us even came close to touching comp smash, but we both felt like the game was a sluggish mess with tripping, fixed hitstun, and the clunky movement.
Meanwhile, you have another large portion of the playerbase whose ideals are far more consistent with one another, and far more dedicated to playing and supporting the game long-term.
And I imagine that what you're trying to imply is that this portion of the playerbase's wishes should have higher priority than everyone else's.
Considering one playerbase is going to be playing and supporting the game much longer than the other, yes.
Most SmUshers (myself included) don't intend to make SmUsh the actual fan nickname. I'll still call it Ultimate.
I just like and sometimes call it SmUsh BECAUSE it sounds really fucking dumb
Well I find that absurd.
The comp segment may have grown in recent years, but they're still minuscule compared to the Smash playerbase as a whole, and their "support" of the game ends at their purchase. You can argue about how the comp scene brings publicity to the game, but I'll argue that the amount of publicity they bring is insignificant even now. I remember when Nintendo had initially tried to shut down the EVO 2013 Melee stream and how many of the comps protesting that decision had claimed things like "You shut us down and we boycott the Wii U, you let us stream it and we'll bring the Wii U publicity" - well Nintendo let them stream it and fat lot of good that publicity did for the Wii U, didn't it? Frankly, Nintendo doesn't need the comp scene and their support of it in recent years seems more of a courtesy than anything; even that article from a few days ago has Sakurai himself saying how those players aren't a priority.
I don't give a fuck about all of Melee's glitchy tech. I just want the game to move a bit faster, hit a bit harder, be less floaty, and for fuck's sake give me running-into-jump momentum back. That's what I want when I say I'd like it to be more like Melee.
If the emails that the pros sent through to Sakurai's team are anything to go by, and he takes them to heart, then he should hopefully fix a lot of the concerns of those who want the game to be a little more like Melee.
Not to mention they all collaborated to email pretty much the same things for what they wanted out of the game. So it's not like it'll be a scattering of thoughts that Sakurai can pick and choose from. It'll be as if all of the pros are on the same wavelength and will help to succinctly show him what they want.
Yes, I'm aware he reached out to the star comps. Frankly, that's more of a bone than I ever expected him to throw them, but hey.
Out of curiosity, do we know exactly what they sent to him? Or it like that old Smash Back Room thing where they decided everything on a private Smashboards subforum and refused to let anyone see their discussions or reasoning?
IIRC the only three people we have any semblance of information from are Mango, M2K, and Armada (by virtue of working with M2K).
Even then, it's mostly tidbits. It's generally agreed that they don't superduper care if wavedashing makes it back in or not, but a few of the things they want include a slightly faster game speed, wavelanding to be a slightly better option, a little more hitstun, and the knockback to not be balloon knockback.
Well I don't think Sakurai is going to budge on the balloon knockback, considering he's stated how he's wanted to do that for a long time and how happy he is to finally have it in; I think that's going to end up being Ultimate's "quirk" that all Smash games have in some form.
I'm completely unsurprised they're not being transparent about it, though.
Finally some decent Ryu footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb51I5igUsM
god damn Ryu is fun to watch
Ryu is probably the best implemented character in Smash in my opinion. There's just so many tidbits and little pieces of heart Sakurai added to make him truer to his fighting game self.
I MEAN YOU CAN DO THE FUCKING MOTIONS LIKE THAT'S SO COOL.
Would anyone happen to know any pros for having balloon knockback? I can't imagine how it would be any good and it seems awkward as fuck.
Is this really something people miss? I see it mentioned every now and then but never got why. If anything, we could just increase the horizontal jump speed across the board.
Sakurai: "As an example, the knockback speed has been increased. You accelerate explosively quickly at first but then decelerate just as fast. It’s better to decrease the amount of time that you’re not in control, and this improves the flow of the game. I had wanted to implement this in previous games as well, but particularly on the 3DS screen it was very easy to lose sight of where the player had gone".
That's his statement on the matter, but if I feel that while it does reduce the feeling of helplessness, it kinda makes edgeguarding a lot less common.
it's easier to predict where you're going to be when jump momentum is the same as your speed on take off. it's also easier to tell if you'll be able to jump far enough to make it to a platform
That's his statement on the matter, but if I feel that while it does reduce the feeling of helplessness, it kinda makes edgeguarding a lot less common.
I had way more fun playing Subspace in Project M simply because it had running-into-jump momentum just like a platformer should. I'd be fine with it returning but I feel like bringing it back would require a lot of rebalancing.
As for air-dodging, from what I understand we've now established:
If you don't hit a direction, it acts like a Brawl/Smash 4 air-dodge
You can hit left or right to add a burst of horizontal momentum to your existing trajectory; no vertical or diagonal though
Like Melee, you can only air-dodge once before landing (even if you used a Brawl-style dodge), but unlike Melee, you're not helpless afterwards
Landing in the middle of a dodge has variable landing lag: with a Brawl-style dodge the land animation is quick, but a horizontal dodge adds about a second of landing lag
So in terms of having the air-dodge help with recovery, we no longer have to choose whether to use air-dodge or Up+B for the "third jump" as we did in Melee, since both made you helpless. Here you can still dodge left or right and still have your Up+B afterwards, so that's basically a boon to horizontal recovery across the board as everyone now has "three-and-a-half" jumps (jump, double-jump, air-dodge left or right, Up+B). And I imagine the increased landing lag when you land in the middle of a horizontal air-dodge is to make extra sure that wavelanding doesn't end up being unexpectedly useful again.
Tell you the truth, this new take on the horizontal air-dodge reminds me more of an air-dash than Melee's version of directional air-dodge.
If I'm correct, there's a butt-ton of lag after your DAirdodge off stage, which they showed a bunch of on the demo stream.
So unless your character has really good vertical mobility, not everyone can Dairdodge into Up+B.
We're not calling it that.
I'm sorry, but this is a copout. Tech skill is a massive aspect of comp Melee and one of the main reasons I get outplayed is because I refuse to play with intensive APM for fear of damaging my hands, relying more heavily on MU knowledge, mindgames and reads to do well with my characters. Borp is not even a top 100 player, either.
It's one of the main reasons I hate L-cancelling and am glad that they fixed actions out of run, which invalidate many of the main reasons to wavedash besides backdashes being something that should have been a thing from the start. Despite this, wavedashing is not as integral as most people claim, just like how tripping, for how bad it was, was not as devastating to the comp scene as it is made out to be. The main things keeping Fox and Falco in check are human nature and the fact that it seems like more and more Fox mains are experiencing burnout from playing him for years (particularly individuals like Hax (hand injury, barely can play and can't properly use a GC controller), Westballz, Ice, Silent Wolf, Zhu, Fiction (hand injury, fell into obscurity), Professor Pro and Mew2King (hand injury, but still top, just not as dominatingly-capable as before) ), which is probably the worst way possible to make it seem like other characters light a candle in comparison to him.
The worst part is when people claim that L-cancelling is necessary to keep the space animals in check, when clearly in the alternative timeline where it didn't exist, they would have been balanced around the premise of not having it.
I'll DAirdodge in SmUsh as I damn well please.
Down airdodge into down attack from shorthop, or DADDY for short
Yes, heavily.
It's normal for pretty much any game in existence to have this and the only reason Smash hasn't since after Melee is literally because it's how Kirby did it, it's just not as obvious in Kirby because he's got balloon-like physics when jumping and isn't exactly quick on the ground. If they want it like this so badly, make it a Kirby-series specific character quirk and leave all of the other characters with normal momentum properties. It looks wrong and feels wrong.
Nope, it's gonna be either air-dash or air-roll, I'm stating it right now.
Down airdodge it is
Fair enough, it's just never really bugged me. Having it limited to Kirby characters (and maybe Jigglypuff) sounds like a good idea.
Also we know that diagonal air-dodging exists because wavelanding exists.
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