TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V8 - ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give Heavy Update - Games

i think many are thought provoking, but many, if not all, i disagree with. I'm also very much against reverting weapons unless truly needed. I feel the only reason they reverted a few weapons was to give them a second chance now that 6s is a supported format. Lemme know what you think of this though, as a big problem is vanilla melee's being completely useless for certain classes Pyro for example, Pyro's fireaxe base damage being buffed +10-15 to a total of 75-80 per hit *base ability for Pyro melees- Bloodlust: killing enemies with melee grants 30(ish? maybe more maybe less) hp, and 3 seconds of damage resistance. Intention is to make pyro's melee weapons be a tool for Pyro, and have options to back out of a dangerous situations, while still having a new stat that other weapons can exchange it for (like the axtinguisher not having the damage resistance, but rather the speed boost instead to help escape an alternative way, offering a different method, but similar option, or giving less hp on kills etc.) I really just want to see the most amount of options in weapons, and not so many being always a downgrade

I personally feel that Pyro skills are utilized a lot better as a defensive class. Items such as the Gas Passer or the Scorch Shot are great for igniting waves of enemies with little to no risk involved, whereas the Degreaser is great for defending your teammates from oncoming ubers or Demo/Solly spam. The Pyro is also expected to Spycheck, which is another defensive tactic as it protects your Engineer from sneaky baguettes.

The ramp-up damage added in the blue moon update doesn't always do full damage depending on your ping, even if you were perfectly tracking your target. You also do less damage to anyone up against a wall. There's a few minor ones with the flame particles and taking way too damage from reflected projectiles than you should.

I'm curious, who did you talk to? Because I'm the author of the base plugin (whereas another plugin took care of custom additions) and I wasn't in charge of the balance.

Melee is a last resort usually unless you're playing around only using it or utility. Melee was never really designed to be on par with your primary and secondary. If you start tacking on gimmicks to the default melee for each class the level of fairness (and by that I mean they all do roughly the same damage per swing) that all melee have is gone.

pyro isn't bad in 6s, stop saying it

Cool stuff, reskins having wackier stats is a fun idea.

i think classes like scout, spy, engineer, sniper, medic and demoman, the melee suits the last resort, as those classes can utilize a melee in that way. when i play those classes, i often feel utility items are a side grade, as im giving up my situation weapon that does occur often weapon, for a utility, and they balance out. Now i can see you arguing maybe soldier falls into those previously mentioned spots, but I think pyro and heavy, however, never have use for such a situation, as a melee weapon would basically be just admitting defeat in a humiliating way. Their effectiveness already relies in close combats, and as such always override needing to ever pull out a melee weapon. There is a minuscule amount of moments in the game that it would ever be more effective to pull out a melee weapon with those classes in a serious game play environment. Because of this, Heavy and Pyro's melee weapons, need to have some form of utility, whether thats in a added needed benefit in killing another player, or just becoming full utility like the powerjack, the backscratcher, the home wrecker, or the neon annihilator. To tell me the fireaxe is fine, and on par with the homewrecker and powerjack, in a serious game play environment, is just a full on goofy statement to me.

I'm saying that melee since the start was outclassed by the other two weapons at your disposal, that's how its always been and it just seems like changing melee weapons at all from what they've been used for seems like change for the sake of change.

Perhaps the obvious answer for Pyro is just to let all melee weapons knock off sappers, and give the Homewrecker something different?

What if the Homewrecker and Neon Annihilator damaged the Pyro when damaging sappers?

Still erks me that Pyro can remove sappers faster then even Engineer can. Had a game the other day were two engineers had two nests up in george were I waited patiently for a good time to kill them and sap. Finally made my move, dying to the second engineer's buildings, but I stabbed the other engineer and sapped his buildings. The other Engineer was clearly away. Only to have a Pyro homewreck them all and all that waiting was wasted... I don't even understand why the Neon Annihilator even needs it. Only reason it's not used more is because water isn't on every map. But on maps like Banana Bay where there's a lot it's a pretty solid weapon without the ability to remove sappers...

I feel changing Pyro melee weapons from what they've been, is to make him have more options. Useless weapons that will never be used in serious game enviroments i dont feel have a place in a game like tf2, where it's all about each player having thier own unique cosmetic and weapon and gameplay style. It's what makes tf2, tf2. Not to mention wouldnt it be nice to have stock skin replacements for pyro(bat outta hell, saxxy, pan) be actually useful?

I saw that Drunken F00l commented "you're bad" on Hell-Met's profile in 2010, what's the context for that?

not how i'd do it, but it's better than nothing for sure

As I've told you previously, I agree with mostly every change suggested outside of the Manntreads affording instantaneous kills with 100% knockback resistance, and the Heavy having his movement speed reduced while revved. The Heavy shouldn't be made into an even greater sitting duck than he already is, even with the switch buff. Also, how would your Natascha change function again? It would draw players toward the Heavy using it?

Yeah It's fine in OFFICIAL VALVE 6v6.

yes, however it's directly built on the basic damage push system, not some external mechanic

Anyone else can confirm that Rally Call medal in-game name is broken? "Genuine #TF2_Rally_Call_Medal...etc" something like that

he wants to get kinky with him

It shouldn't be, their strings are correctly defined as "Rally Call - Whale" and "Rally Call - Whale Donor", it might just be that you haven't updated tf_english.txt or items_game.txt, or are using a mod for tf_english.txt somewhere.

Lovin' these ghost pages!

Just went through it, most of the idea's seem pretty good. I do have a few questions to ask if you got a second. Stickybomb Jumper (+) Removed active stickybomb limit (+) No longer blocks intel pickup INFO: Falsely labeled "training" weapon yet greatly reduces user offense potency with arguable benefit. Could be tweaked into serious mobility tool to focus upon map objectives and non fight-related duties. Flag pick-up lockdown removed. Reloading is still necessary due to Demoman having a potent weapon equippable with this. Main issue I have is with allowing him to take the intel. The main problem here is that Demoman on open maps can literaly capture objectives within seconds if the map is too open, I've actually few right through area's with sentries placed up, grabbed the flag and and out a door on the other end and the sentries never touched me. I can see the Rocket Jumper being ok, since the soldier is giving up his main guns. But Demoman can still fall back on pipes as well. More difficult to use then stickies no doubt. Dead Rigner (X) REVERT TO FIRST VERSION STATS (-) Can no longer pick up ammo to refill cloak (-) Decreased damage resistance to 75% (from 90%) INFO: Charge spammability was the main flaw, however the newer speed boost proves to be yet another problem. Reverted to old DR but re-instated the no-pickups policy. Decreased shield power aswell. I presume this is the released version before the decloak sound was turned into an alarm correct? I forget, recharge still 20 seconds from a full drain back then. That's the problem about reverting to older stats... I can't remember all the details from back then... lol Red-Tape Recorder (-) Red Taped buildings are now immune to all external damage until the sap is complete or the sapper is removed INFO: Arguable straight upgrade even after all those tweaks. Added complete invincibility to all external damage when sapped to prevent additional opponents from destroying the stunned nest themselves as a means of balance toward the stock sapper. I'd argue that it's a straight upgrade. It's just further putting it down the hole of no return. Although I believe buildings that revert a level get their health back if they take in any damage if I recall. So the nerf I guess isn't that impactful. Could also be griefable technically. Imagine a spy sapping buildings during an uber push. Now the uber can't do squat to engie nests... Big Earner (+) Removed health penalty (-) Removed speed boost on kill (-) Added -30% slower firing speed INFO: This weapon appears to not be used much due to the massive health penalty allowing easy one-shot thresholds. The new speed boost is completely irrelevant to the original design aswell. Removed health penalty and speed boost on kill. Added new downside - slower attacks to hamper chainstabs and synergize with the cloak regen benefit. Big Earners actually one of the best knife spy has honestly. Last I checked it's even popular in competitive if I recall, that is unless something changed and I'm not aware of it. Direct Hit (+) Turned airborne mini-crits to full crits (-) Removed extra projectile speed INFO: Controversial weapon. Deemed frustrating to face and use yet somewhat lackluster outside of anti building niche. Turned minicrits into full crits at the cost of rocket speed. Think this one might need more work. I'd honestly just use it at that point to deal with engie's buildings and nothing more at that point. Cow Mangler 5000 (+) Changed rocket damage type to Energy (from Explosive) (-) Increased building damage inneffiency to 100% less damage (charged shot will still stun as intended) INFO: Changed damage type to bypass items with explosive related attributes as a means to make it more standing out. Increased building damage penalty to make even mini sentries a true counter to offset infinite ammo. Happy to see I'm not the only that wants to see it change from Explosive damage to Energy/Fire. If weapons on the game like the Vacinator are going to be a thing, they need a way to have fire be more represented so that Bullet and Explosive damage aren't the only important resistances to keep on full time.

Justification - The only teams that have tried to experiment with pyro that I know of have all been fairly successful. (not really tracking open teams or low mid) and most of these teams weren't even playing in a pyro-centric way, the full power is Yet To Be Unleashed. pyro is busted as sin against teams that only know defaults, which is pretty much everyone in open and below (so everyone in ugc) and probably at least half of mid too. It also forces you to play in a specific and odd way that most teams are weaker in, if not flat out unable. in theory it's really good and in practice it's been shown to be 'not bad' so it just seems disingenuous to say it's bad at this point. It might not be 100% optimal but it's pretty much almost factually not bad.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/7656198025034874 Oh boy, here we go again. Deffo my official trading account. Be sure to accept any otherwise strange looking offers involving paypal with that account. You'll make a tidy profit. :headdesk:

people complain that CTF last too long, and they also complain that it can be too short via fast capping. They also hate stalemates. What do they want? I'll never pretend i know much about spy, but neither does valve apparently. scout speed is the last thing spy deserves. The rocket speed is what makes DH so frustrating. you gotta tell within 0.1 second if the soldier you're facing can actually lead your movement or is just gonna shoot where you are so you can avoid getting 1shot - poof - too late. I don't know what to do with this gun, it's both really good and really bad and there's nothing else like it. also sick reflect rocketjumps

Maybe instead of allowing Demoman to carry intel, focus on fixing CTF first instead. At least before changing that bit on the sticky jumper perhaps?

sticky jumper demos taking the intel? hell fucking no. the v1 allowed them to do it and it was absurd.

what's stopping people from doing it with gunboats or quickiebomb overheal + medkits lmao? or is it only an issue when the enemy gimps themselves and you need to put the blame on something? why is the intel room completely empty for 3 caps?

I've capped twice in less then a minute with sticky jumper demo