TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V8 - ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give Heavy Update - Games

this answers nothing. fan scout can also do it within seconds on doublecross. Plus since the old jumpers, we got free wallhack wall glows to see exactly what carriers are trying to do now.

He's much quicker at getting around the map then scout is. He can cover entire maps no matter how large they are within seconds. Also, have fun gunning down a demoman as he flies around the map super high up in the air. He's way better at intel caping then scout with the sticky jumper.

there are plenty of ways to stop people from picking up a flag. TF2 maps aren't gm_flatgrass they gotta go indoors at some point. the ones that complain about CTF are usually the people that never want to lift a finger to defend and are never found anywhere nearby their room. The one legit problem with CTF is the reset timer. Still waiting to know the difference between jumpers and legit weapons having very fast ways around. oh there is none - skilled players can achieve the same results.

What ever skill is needed to do it with normal weapons is kind of removed with the sticky jumper, as the no damage attribute sort of removes any skill requirement completely.

I don't know if CTF is fixable in TF2, to be honest. In its current state it isn't awful, it gives a bit of a more TDM feel because of how Engineers and Scouts work in the mode, but there are 9 different classes with different abilities, it's not like shooters where everybody is the same character but with very minor changes. Sticky Jumper, Rocket Jumper, Jetpack, Scout, Concheror, Scout' existing, Engineers existing... I think it should be left as it is. The ideal future would be Moonbase actually being released and putting it in the CTF maplist, seeing how popular it is and comparing reception to it and other CTF maps. At this point it's unlikely we'll see many more CTF maps anyways, but if the reception were good enough, they could maybe consider making Moonbase's mode the norm for CTF.

CTF would be tolerable if Engineer wasnt so good at turtling in numbers and the flag actually returned to base if you touched it.

You don't appear to understand that the audiences that complain about CTF lasting too long and CTF being "too fast" are two entirely different ones. The people that play CTF play it to stick to the server for hours. It's basically what most people do with Powerhouse. CTF does not need fixing, it's a shitty gamemode but it's a gamemode niche for a massive amount of people, and making changes to make it more "competitive" will please no one as the casual babies that played on it before would be sad and any average even slightly competitive orientated person would still dislike it because no fixing in the world will make ctf as good as something like payload/5cp

I play CTF most of the times just because you can sometimes play for hours.

That's more or less a problem with engineer directly. Currently most notably with Engineers who know how to effectively use Wrangler ( and to a lesser extent, short circuit ) and Rescue Ranger effectively. Doesn't help that engineer stacking for defense situations is honestly way better then it out to be. Well, as long as the engineer's aren't brain dead and all clustered in one spot like idiots. The people that want infinite so and so CTF map and hightower can find community servers as those are always easy to find in the search browser as there are still plenty of those floating about and populated. Why they have to plague casual matchmaking is beyond me. Only thing I can think of is that they're lazy. Hell, like Lord Exor's server, plenty of them remove the objective for the intent of being death match oriented full time. But just leaving the game mode as is is just dumb. People may still prefer payload / 5cp. But that doesn't mean they can't attempt to make the game mode more enjoyable to those who go to it for the sake of doing the objective. Even more so if Valve keeps insisting that they put contracts specifically for CTF and it's maps in the contractor. Add round times would be a good start, maybe make it that it slightly extends on caps perhaps? Remove crits on cap, as those honestly just screw over people who are defending. If done right you can instantly cap all 3 Better map options obvious, since some ( 2fort being an easy pick ) are just terrible by today's standards Changes to returning the flag. Like having people near the flag as it's down speed up the return rate. Servers with 6 people could just make it that it's touch flag return. Not to mention changes to engineer to making stacking not as viable. CTF should have significantly more offense team then defense anyway. Since Offense will be taking on the other teams offense push while going for the flag themselves. Defense is just there to deter or kill the stragglers that get by the offensive push.

Yeah thanks, but I don't want to play community servers.

Im not content with the way things are but thats how it is, ctf is a by-concept shitty gamemode that literally works in no game to a competitive mindset and will always remain incredibly casual, no matter how many bandaid fixes you apply to it. None of the fixes you proposed change the general flaws of the gamemode itself. Even maps that are actually good like Landfall still deal with the shittiness of CTF. The casual crowd loves it - the entire fact that coordinated team pushes, extreme chokes and awful, long matches is what makes CTF special to those people - and these are a lot of people. I'd rather keep that kind in their containment servers.

It's not like that would casual experience go away by changing the mode at all. There are still fundamental issues that would require genuine class balancing to change that - namely removing Engineer from the game. That's obviously never gonna happen and is sill to even consider

Unless something has changed... It worked rather well in Quake like arena shooters as well as both QWTC and TFC competitive wise. Really depends on the type of shooter though. I know not all shooters can really do it though. Rest of what you said those makes sense to an extent. Although I'd still love to push for a CTF mode ( even if separate game mode ) that runs more of in a fashion to how I'd suggest it to be. I never liked the idea of not trying to improve something when I know it can be improve. I was still a huge fan of CTF and would love to still enjoy playing it if I could as well. If anything can we at least request that contracts in the future never involve CTF maps or hightower then? Because that's forcing the likes of us that want to complete them to play on those maps with the mind set of finishing them.

CTF is tricky because I love good stalemates, but I hate BAD stalemates, and it's a thin line separating the two. Like, when you have a CTF match (or any match, really) where everyone has to work together over the course of like an hour to break through a wall, where EVERYONE on the server is giving 110% at all times? Amazing; that's TF2 at its best. It's like not pooping for over a year and then downing a bottle of laxitives. But when stalemates are bad? When it's just two turtle bases, Snipers on the battlements, and a few Scouts/Demos inching the intel back and forth little by little? It's agonizing. Ideally, you'd want to change CTF in a way that encourages good stalemates (i.e. gameplay situations where you have to be fully present and work as a team) while eliminating the potential for bad stalemates (i.e. classes like Engie going on autopilot, everyone else playing death match), but it's a tricky balance to pin down.

I feel like Robot Destruction would be the perfect gamemode for "people that wanna play CTF - but the good one" then again that needs to release first

The night before I went to the hospital I was playing some Double Cross with Borealis and twice I saw someone on our team intentionally jump into the pit with the Intel to reset it. That really pissed me off and reminded me of one of the many reasons I hate CTF in TF2.

Back when I was still doing contracts. At one point I started going into CTF maps we needed contracts for with parties of six just for the sole purpose of having nearly complete control over the vote system. Anyone doing shit like that to deter us from completing the objective or trying to attack us from doing the objective was immediately kicked most of the time. Hard enough to do CTF Contracts as is if teams focused too hard on defending. Not going to put up with shit like that.

Agreed 100%. A lot of people don't like RD because it's a big fuckoff labyrinth of a map that you can fill with Engie nests, but that's exactly what I like about it.

Say it ain't so-oh-oh-oooh! You ghost page is a heart-breaker!

So, PASS Time's icons over players made me kind of wish other things that usually use the Payload glow had icons for when it's disabled. Finding the intel, or using the ScoRes would be infinitely easier if there was some silly icon that scaled with distance. Heck, I'd love to see icons instead of the player outlines after you spawn, since those outlines love to tank my FPS in higher numbers.

I never said "hey guys you know what i love? getting steamrolled". I just said "Dustbowl encourages good stalemates". I never defined "good stalemates" on Dustbowl, I just said that Dustbowl tends to encourage 'em, which results in some good team play. I've never really had any one-sided Dustbowl matches, usually they're fairly balanced. It may just be the servers I'm connected to, though, since for the last few weeks people have been complaining of hackers running rampant, and I haven't seen a hacker since June.

I seriously never got all the hate about Dustbowl. To me, it's kinda the de-facto TF2 map; every class has a purpose on it and the bottlenecks/chokes provide a challenge for both teams. I've gotten rolled on RED just as often as I've gotten stomped on BLU when playing Dustbowl, and that's aside from the times where both teams were actually really competent and the last point of stage 3 ends up in a constant state of on/off contested for a good 20 mins.

every class has a purpose on dustbowl? the spy class says hello

What is: that tunnel on the 1st stage that allows the offensive team to flank the enemy? What are: the tunnels on the 2nd stage that allow the offensive team to flank the enemy? what is: the tunnel midway through the 3rd stage that allows any enemy to walk directly to last, avoiding all opposition? oh god you're my waifu now I love you let's get married.

let's just say maps with tiny hallways are the bane of tf2 because it turns out tiny hallways counter 5/9 classes and help make 4/9 classes way stronger than they are allowed to be

Yeah, have fun dodging explosive spam with no space to move in... Only effective way to counter it without just picking demo or soldier is to go pyro and hope you can reflect the majority of it back at them.

derr plebian, kneel before the mighty chokepoint gods! Chokepoints are only fun in moderation. They're like drugs, they're fine if used conservatively, but if you use too much, you're probably going to blow your brains out.

Choke points aren't bad per say... But entire sections of some maps can be classified as one large choke point lol... Choke points can be small as well and not be nearly as problematic as ones seen on Dustbowl and 2fort.

Barnblitz last has been redeemed simply because of the little slide in RED spawn

If you think Dustbowl is bad now then you really honestly have no idea how brutal it was when every Demo had six pipes.