• TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V9 - Sad Heavy Hours? Who Up?
    999 replies, posted
You can write out the same arguments vs. snipers and on paper, itll sound logical and grand. People forget that heavy med combos arent a standalone, and ESPECIALLY on payload they can roll so easily. You can use your corners so greatly but wont kill the man as he pushes little payload. There is a reason why whenever I used to test maps on the TF2Maps server or had my own maps tested, Heavy Medic combos were the bane of the server because people simply couldn't stop them without one on their own or a Uber.
except miniguns shit on overhealed players. and this whole "heavy is baaaad worst class ever cant do anything" thing is just as bad as thinking sniper is op. your opinions are condemned to suck until you play the better servers and players of the game. nocrit competent heavy/med without the chaotic idiocy of pubs is one of the most dangerous encounter at high level and people aren't kidding when they say heavy would be ran constantly in high comp if he had no speed problem. I will however never deny that demoman has the best chances vs heavy, the only problem is he's mr mid-range and miniguns can be effective at midrange. so without sniper the only reliable anti heavy would be going heavy/med yourself but they're likely gonna have the uber advantage over your own couple. we're still talking about games with nocrits and below 24, mind you.
Pro tip : You can use mittens to tickle ubered medic to fuck their uber up.
heavy/med is the juggernaut of highlander. it's not fun.
i mean you think sniper needs a nerf and heavy is everyone else's little bitch so that is not exactly the best mindset to form opinion on.
I think you're offended by how I said it. I used to be like you and many others and I had my own little ideas about tf2. I played 32 shitfest sourceop for years and I didn't understand why I couldn't get better. Then I began following comp to understand how tf2 mechanics work when people are equally good on both sides. Then it hit me that TF2 is basically a completely different game outside of crappy pubs where people are basically rewarded for playing retarded. I don't expect you to change your mind based on forum posts so sorry for the insult I guess.
You'd be surprised
https://www.twitch.tv/essentialstf i63 finals are on! 11k people are watching! That's a bloody record for TF2 Competitive.
Yes, the reduction of rimlight and change of the lightwarp is pretty noticeable, the viewmodels used in i63 are closer to the Visual Fix pack I am working on with @nonhuman , N-Cognito, and with a little help of @Pie_Savvy . I made some very quick comparisons(Left are the current vanilla viewmodels; right are from the Visual Fix Pack): https://files.catbox.moe/pkr234.jpg I would like to make some comparisons in video format, as you can see the differences the best when walking around in the map. I'm planning to do that when the pack is pretty much complete.
even if you for some reason manage to get in melee range, they can press spacebar to nullify all of your efforts. HP stun is also so much less viable without randomcrits.
Because 6s is a fast paced gamemode and we are talking about a pub? Also heavy is king in Highlander. Also heavy/med is run around Last and guess what its also causing stalemate thanks to his friend Engineer.
Yes, but you'd be surprised
In my anecdotal experience Heavy is the anchor not the push. He can push but in all honesty he really shouldn't due to all of his counters, bad mobility and his tunnel vision problem. He's the safety net for the team While scout, demo and soldier do all the heavy lifting. He's no fun to get killed by in HL because 9/10 times it's because you got greedy and chased one of his teammates back to him of which then you were denied the kill and denied your right to live because you over extended. If the Heavy is moving up it's because you either already lost the fight and he's just cleaning up or he's a dumbass who's about to get a bullet through his skull and his medic stabbed.
Heavy is destroyed by Demoman in any situation that isn't point-blank range.
Heavy med is not the dominant force in highlander. That would be sniper picks, and scout flashed demo ubers with numerical advantage. Those are the kinds of meta game things you are forced to react to as a team, or are likely lose the objective against as a result. The fact that you think payload pub strats will work in competitive play tells me that you don’t have very much experience with either, and that’s not a crime- just don’t go talking about it like that’s the case lest people be given a misleading view of top-down balance. For those of you out of the loop- Heavy is a last hold pick in 6s/prolander when you lack the time to set up a sentry or require big health on point right then. He is too slow and his unlocks are banned for him not to matter in the rest of the metagame outside those situations. In highlander, heavy is a combo class who’s job is to defeat flankers/bombers threatening the demo and medic, and to throw sandwiches to the medic when hurt. Sometimes he does things like fists of steel on the cart for cap time, or as a backup Uber target when your demo has died on defense and you need to hold against dry pushes (defensive pyro ubers actually work better to stall vs enemy ubers) but for the most part he’s just there to pull security and provide a big, painful deterrent to attacking his teammates while they’re trying to work. If a heavy is carrying a competitive match, that means the enemy team has made serious mistakes in just running in and dying one by one to the heavy instead of playing strategically and not botting forward to thier deaths.
You're a few years off, actually. TF2's been dead since 2001.
Pot... Kettle. Also, I'd like to point that while the QuickFix is UP in pubs, it counters Heavy better than any other class. Additionally, the Wrangler does a really good job of countering Heavy unless he's already on top of the Sentry. Over the years Heavy has suffered a bunch of strong nerfs, most significantly the Love & War damage/accuracy ramp up. Sniper nerfs include making the Machina and Bushwhacker slightly less disgusing, and several sniper v. sniper changes (can't jump immediately after firing primary, DDS now an anti-pyro buff.) While I'd like to think that the TF2 team balance their game around what they genuinely believe to the best for all 9 classes, the evidence suggests that they favor the four "S" classes the most. Spy has more movement speed and damage resistance buffs than I can remember (moves at full medic speed and has damage resistance with stock cloak regardless of current disguise etc etc) and that's to say nothing of the still annoying AF Dead Ringer. This is to say nothing of the entire YEAR where the DR was disgustingly OP and zero fun to play against. The Amby got nerfed (I believe overly so) but the Diamondback remains one of the most poorly designed weapons in the entire game. Letting a class that can cloak and disguise store critical shots is utter stupidity. Sniper remains the dominant force in any game mode that's not Sixes, for the reasons we've been discussing for pages now. Ever since the change to all Medi Guns granting the same movement speed as the heal target, Scout is the boss in Sixes. Soldier has had his worse primaries (the LL and CM5K) buffed and only had minor nerfs (the DA is slighly less OP.) Heavy got ...a wafer think un-nerf by allowing him to do full damage if he's been a spun up immobile object for a full second. The GRU is now nerfed into the toilet, and FoS got a really stupid nerf (why not just give it -1 cap rate when deployed so comp players can't whine about FoS heavies sitting on a point?) The Eviction Notice are still GRU, Jr. which shows a fantastic lack of creativity on the part of the dev team. The HLH got a "rebalance" in an attempt to make it more viable but the fact is that the L&W Nerf (which rewards Heavy for being spun up) is completely un-done by the HLH punishing him for the same. The Tomislav is remains the most viable Heavy primary. The Brass Beast is the "I want to be a free kills" weapon. Natascha is barely viable for punishing Scouts and Demoknights, in select locations, on a few maps. Sandvich remains the "stock" Heavy secondary. Banana is sort-of effective at keeping a medic alive. BSS is not even a good meme weapon (yet still banned in comp.) Chocolate bar got nerfed hugely in a ham fisted way to patch the "infinite health" exploit. It's now barely viable. The Family Business is similar to Pyro's Third Degree in that it is both a straight upgrade from stock and basically useless. Also, I take issue with your assertion that Heavy dominates Highlander. His role is to be a body guard and damage sponge for the Medic and Sniper on his team It's even less interesting than the job of the Pyro, who at least has to reflect projectiles. As I said before, Highlander is "Sniper Picks the Enemy Medic" mode.
This strikes me kind of like saying "Soldier would be one of the least-used classes if he couldn't rocket jump" or "Scout would be useless if he couldn't do so much damage while moving so quickly". Like, well, he can. It's a huge part of how that class plays, and even if there are items that alter how/if that feature works (BASE Jumper, Baby-Face's Blaster, GRU, etc.), it's something that's still more or less going to factor into teh vast majority of matchups involving that class in one way or another. Heavy/Med can be stopped fairly easily if a team knows what they're doing. I play Casual exclusively and wreck shit as Heavy because no one seems to understand how important positioning is. A single Scout can take a Heavy/Medic singlehandedly if he knows how to move and prioritize his targets properly. Heavy/Med is gonna shit on some matchups because that's literally Medic's role in the game; to make beefy dudes even beefier and therefore more dangerous. Heavy/Medic is gonna trump just about any single class simply because by that point it's 2:1 and that's how this game tends to work (the major exception being someone like the Spy or the Sniper). It's called Team Fortress for a reason; Heavy/Medic is a prime example of two players working in tandem, so they're gonna win out over disorganization every time. The second they get focused, however, they're done for. You can have a Spy or Sniper take out the Medic and force the Heavy to try and retreat (which will almost never work out in his favor). You can say fuck the Medic and just lay into the Heavy; something like a Level 3 combined with a decent Soldier, Scout, Demo, or even a Pyro is enough to stop a Heavy/Medic combo where they stand. Hell, you don't even need to kill the Medic, or the Heavy for that matter; if they're pushing an objective and you get them to back off, you've stopped them from going where they want to go and doing what they want to do, which is a damn sight better than nothing. Speaking as someone whose favorite way to play as of late is to go Heavy and team up with a pocket Medic, the worst thing you can do to me is give me too many sources of fire to focus on. If I'm trying to peek a sentry while my Medic keeps me topped off and you come around and start peppering my doctor while he can't fight back, one of us is gonna have to stop doing our job (damaging the sentry/healing) to deal with you. The second the Heavy stops spinning or the Medic stops healing, you've got an opening to just have your way with them. You might not even need any backup. Heavy/Medic is one of the best combos in the game, but it's by no means unstoppable. All it requires is a little bit of forethought, decisiveness, and good positioning (along with the bare modicum of teamwork). If you don't have those qualities when you engage the enemy, you're not gonna win the matchup, and that's true of just about every single situation in TF2.
If you're not watching i63 right now, you're missing out on some top tier TF2 competitive action between 2 best TF2 teams in the world.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AnimatedSucculentAntelopeWTRuck
I don't usually watch insomnia, but the 'B4nny go Home' chanting got a chuckle out of me.
I was under the impression that sniper + heavy/med decide HL matches. thanks for correcting me
Sniper, Pyro, Demo.
or the truckload of miss pauling porn.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BumblingTriangularShieldBigBrother Absolutely amazing.
What. a. Fucking. Game.
11k, is that a new record? what's been the highest amount for viewership in comp tf2?
For anyone who didn't tune in for Insomnia, Froyotech won overall.
A regular on my TF2 servers who lives in Ireland went to Insomnia and took these shots: https://i.imgur.com/OdlK1NF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/b82A4AK.jpg https://i.imgur.com/j83GYAd.jpg Credit to All_Over_RS.
Those were some sick plays from the same four classes.
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