TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V10 - It is not dead, is Aliven't - Games

and everyone can be kept at bay by a competent heavy+med, even more so in nocrit servers. big woop

"Why not give them better counters?"

The event is now officially over. Glad to say that it had a stable 8v8 all until the end of the event, even reaching 9v9 at one point.

still i would like it to last a bit longer but i guess a well event isnt really the most exciting thing in the world.

Oh please, let's not get into this "oh but he has a Medic" rigmarole. And then the Demoman with a Medic shows up and shuts down the Heavy with a Medic, now what?

if it's a casual-esque match we're talking about, the medic then goes vaccinator and re-shuts down the demo then the demo gets a vaccinator medic so they become unable to fight each other at all

This would be a HUGE buff to Scout and a direct nerf to Heavy. tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads 1 works on all scout primaries, and every other hitscan weapon (save the Panic Attack, which has fixed spread all the time) ...except for the miniguns. Heavy's primaries have a unique spread mechanic all their own. From the moment he spins up, Heavy starts at 50% of his (already shitty) accuracy and has to be an immobile target for a full second before he reaches his max (still shitty) accuracy. The same is true for his damage. Fixed weapon spreads makes his giant hitbox that much easier to meatshot. Until Valve either removes the Love & War damage/accuracy ramp up completely and/or makes more of the minigun's bullets travel down the center of the spread cone. I maintain that if Scout is going to have the best mobility in the game (and be able to be pocketed by any medi gun) then it's time for him to get his own L&W nerf. How about this: the stock Scattergun has 6 shots in its magazine. The first does half damage, the second does 5/16ths the third does 3/8ths damage and finally the forth and onward do full damage? The other Scout primaries can get damage percentage values based on their magazine size. Yes, including the FaN and Soda Popper. :P I'm not being serious of course, but the fact is that even with random bullet spread an encounter between a Scout and Heavy of equal skill results in a dead Heavy almost all the time. Advocating that it be even easier for Scout to kill Heavy is lunacy. This is to say nothing of fixed weapon spreads making it easier for a Scout to kill every other class (especially jumping splodey classes). When Valve boosted the base weapon switch speed, that was a direct buff to Scout and a passive nerf to Heavy (he's never switching weapons except to run away and/or have a snack, and his primary has to spin down.) Scout can pump out even more damage by switching to his Pistol that much more quickly. Also, the 2016 base speed buff to Spy makes Heavy's life far worse but does nothing to Scout at all. In fact, during the entire YEAR+ period from MyM until JI, Scout was one of the best anti-spy classes. Mad Milk + 400HU/s base speed was the only thing that could keep up with a spamming Dead Ringer Spy. I have previously ranted (quite recently in fact: TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V9) about how Sniper is a terrible fit in TF2. The game is based on movement, reloading and medium to close range encounters. Sniper doesn't HAVE to move, reloads only once and can insta-kill any class from across the map. High skilled snipers are the least fun thing to fight against in TF2. It goes without saying that there is a reason that cheaters prefer Sniper to all other classes, combined. The existence of Sniper does not make the current state of Scout any less OP in skilled hands un-fun to fight against, either. I just might turn Feeble Oaf's "script" into a Patric meme later.

I don't think Valve will ever fully revert the Love and War nerf, it's only had fairly minor buffs in four years. A dev must have gotten pissed at dying to jump revving Heavies

This is probably what dictated most of the terrible balance changes. A dota 2 dev gets the can, has to work on tf2 for a bit and decides the baby blaster totally could use a buff when it doesn't need it, makes it op as shit for a year when it was fine, then it gets nerfed into nothingness. I miss the pyro update baby blaster variant :/

There aren't too many variants of Well.

You never know, the Claidheamh rework that turned it into a worse Eyelander got reverted after years.

A dev might have not have read the tip on the Bison punishing retreating enemies and got mad, which resulted in the Bison nerf.

Some of the weird balance reasons has to be of new employees looking something which in their views needed fixing and ended up breaking it to the point that it caused it to become crap or op,and because of how valve works most of the tf people are rotating from other games apart from the old guard of driller and jill and the rest of chlorophyllic crew we already know that worked in tf2 for a long time.

You can blame SPUF for that one--it was dominated by Pyro mains back in the day, and you know how Pyro mains feel about Heavy. It seemed to be Valve's primary source for feedback for a while, especially concerning Heavy balance.

This would be a HUGE buff to Scout and a direct nerf to Heavy. "This would be a HUGE buff to Scout and a direct nerf to Heavy." This is exactly why we need the Heavy update though.

miniguns need and deserve fixed spread tbh

Finally managed to get this on recording... Wonder if Sigsev could explain what causes this one. https://youtu.be/OwWWC0rhFs4 Pipebomb Launcher (Classic) makes a return.

What an odd crosshair.

That pipe clearly bounced once out of frame before it touched him.

Let me see if i understand this correctly. Your idea of counterplay to sniper, is to get close, hope he misses, dodge and unavoidable, instant hitscan attack, and abuse hitbox lagginess? Oh. Yeah. It must be a perfectly balanced class when your best option against him at his usual range is to try to replicate a cheat program's exploit of the game engine. Yeah. Real balanced. You are off your rocker if you think that in any way promotes skillful or active play. "Stay out of sightlines" is not counterplay. Lets think about this: What you've really got for "sniper counterplay" is really "hidein fear from an undodgable (hitscan) 150 damage to the spleen", that can be done: -By bad players without much practice or skill -With 8/9 classes having no weapons that deal any kind of reliable damage at his range -From complete safety behind teams, sentries (many times in spawn, free from ANY retaliation) -From across the majority of most maps, in particularly payload/AD since sniper sightlines are either the whole map or the strategically relevant areas where players are required to be -That can wipe out 5/9 classes in one shot, including the medic -With weapons like the machina/sidney sleeper granting even more power to it Which is no counterplay at all. Seriously, it doesn't matter how many times he misses while cowering in spawn if your medic drops to pablo.gonzales2005 the 4th gibus sniper on upward. You know something is wrong with a class when the only reasonable way to counter it is with itself. You know what the solution is? DONT NERF SNIPER: Buff the other classes instead or give them tools that can be used to counterplay his effectiveness. Honestly, TF2 is one of the only class based shooters still relevant that both features snipers, and also lacks anti-camping or sniper unlocks or elements. Smoke screens. Mortar strikes. Armor. Shields. Helmets. Flash Bangs. Disruptor Fields. Drones. The list goes on- these are all things that every other game (even CSGO!) has that stop the effectiveness of a good sniper from completely dominating play, as no other class rewards you for being good with it as much as sniper does, to the point where balance shifts to itself. TF2 just relies on snipers missing, or overwhelming numbers of teammates swarming an area in a 12v12 clusterfuck to drive out snipers. But none of that matters, as all sniper needs to do is take out the medic, or one or two key enemies out of that tide of bad guys, which his own team is charged with facing. So even that isn't a counterpoint. This is also the reason why sniper is overplayed in casual. Solve things this way, and you help tamp that down, too.

Is what I thought, but off what? And how did it manage to keep its velocity if that were the case? It came in at what would appear to be your standard uninterrupted velocity.

Funny you should mention that. The last match we played on the Facepunch Server, before most everyone disconnected for no clear reason, was a great illustration of why I hate this piece of shit medigun so much. We were playing a custom Payload map (Moonbase - actually quite cool), and offense was running a Vaccinator Medic. Nothing our defense did could stop them for lon. I was so desperate I actually switched to sniper at the last point (and I hate sniper for the most part) , cause spawn was nearby and I could toss endless jarate to soften them up. Not even that was enough - because no matter how many headshots I landed on the Medic's jarate-covered pocket heavy, he just wouldn't fucking die.

wouldn't be surprised if it bounched off the weapon entity itself. That could use some testing

Wouldn't lowering the amount of overheal Scout can get bring his power level down to a more reasonable level?

his power level is fine at least IMO. He has insane kill and pick potential, but even with overheals, he crumples against any coordinated effort to kill him. He has to play very carefully to not get blown to pieces by a single stray rocket.

Nathan Vetterlein (the voice actor for the Scout) streams TF2 every Saturday and Sunday afternoons. His server is one of the few regularly populated (when he's streaming that is) community servers that has map rotation. Nathan is actually a Heavy main. Someone in text chat today commented that it was funny that the voice of the Scout mains Heavy. Regulars on his server hear this all the time. Someone else commented that Heavy mains are rare AF. Yet another person chimed in with "there's dozens of us!" I understood that reference, so I made this shitpost after the game was over: https://i.imgur.com/qoaijOs.jpg

https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/9effcr/entire_rtf2_right_now/ Not implying anything but didn't I post something exactly like this a week ago? lmao

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who started with the Heavy before moving onto learning other classes. TF2 was the first mutiplayer shooter I ever invested serious time in, and I wasn't exactly good at FPS games. Heavy was simple enough mechanically that I quickly learned how be a fairly effective teammate, even as my knowledge of other classes was so limited that I didn't even know how to upgrade buildings as engineer or how to cloak as spy. I think my first 50 to 100 hours in the game were almost exclusively spent playing heavy. Seriously, if more people started with him instead of trying and inevitably failing as scout, spy, or sniper, F2P might not be as much as an insult as it is. But then again, the majority of F2P's are kids (I was 18 when I started playing), so they don't have the common sense to start with classes that allow you to contribute something even if you suck. A brand new FPS player can still accomplish something as heavy or soldier or pyro if they have teammates willing to help them. If they choose scout or spy or sniper, they're just taking up a player slot.

I remember seeing a video a long ass time ago ( had to be around 5+ years ) were a demoman pipe boucing off a scouts scattergun before colliding with any surface of the map on Granary, in that room with the ramps just after Mid. So it is actually possible, or at least was...

This makes me sad, I want to play TF2, but I got burned out and kinda want some new content. Cmon Valve https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/242166/258d0dff-2cc4-4b6c-b804-86fe76a0f782/burn.PNG