TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V12 - Miniguns are SCARY - look it up - Games

Oh joy, now I can get blinded by a bright green light instead of a bright yellow light for the occasion.

Look what one of my friends gave me as a late b-day gift. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/213180/502c788a-84e5-4d99-b55f-b187bff9c3e0/image.png

I'm a little bit confused. Some warpaints came with a defined pattern from the creators, but when they got added into the game said pattern became randomized. Now after this update, most patterns (such as Neo Tokyo) became their original pattern?

Did existing painted weapons get changed?

Sadly, it's not the case. I also thought that I actually have some good matches, but just don't remember it. So I started to rate every match after its end. The result is - 93% of my matches are garbage, in my opinion. For reference, it was 75% after Swissmas 2016.

Then you ought to have massive standards or are rating matches negatively solely because of certain, small factors. Maybe you grew more cynical over time, who knows. But in a similar light to other team games, the statement "90% of my matches are unbalanced and onesided!" is objectively not correct.

I suppose having high standards isn't a good thing, right Fluury?

Since I don't have objective criteria to measure one sided match - yes, it's my subjective rating. This statement can't be objectively incorrect unless you provide me with criteria of rating one-sideness of the match and bust it. For example, I played bunch of CSGO matches recently. I heavily dislike the game, but there were way more balanced matches than in tf2. I just think blindly applying CSGOs matchmaking doesn't work in case of tf2.

This so much, the tut we have in the game is abysmal. We only have tutorials on how to play 4 of the nine classes, Soldier, Demo, Engineer, and Spy but not for arguably the most important class in the game. The Medic. I had a game yesterday where a new player had no idea what "uber" was or how to activate it. Without new players understanding how each class works or even how each gamemode works (Though there are small videos at the start of maps but I'm sure people skip over them). On top of the fact the tutorial is optional and tucked away no one would ever actively look for it.

My friend hadn't known that he can extinguish with right click as pyro before, like 300 hours when I just yelled on him because he hasn't extinguished me.

Oh on top of the lack of a decent training mode, the game is also riddled with a number of bizarre bugs. Take this scout for instance. See this cool scout? https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/57947/6b4c2440-841c-4212-8d39-e048097142fd/20181026182246_1.jpg Yeah he's wearing a hat. All items with transparency render behind anything that isn't a player model. And since maps are like 90% props you never see this shit ingame. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/57947/181ce754-8be4-4790-8efd-afd5497e7355/20181026182247_1.jpg

i learned how to rocket jump and crouch jump seeing someone else and actively asking them how they did it. tf2 "lacks a proper tutorial" because for the most part everything you can do is learned through experience and research. and the key mechanics that arent that evident are explained in the tutorial, wich, if anything, should be enforced to all new players just so they can get a grasp of said mechanics.

what really amazes me is that you managed to find a match on maple ridge in the year 2018

Wait really? Its like my second most played map this event, I wasn't aware it was a lower populated map.

This is a Source issue that has existed since 2003. They are never going to fix it.

Well I don't know what people are expecting out of Quickplay in Overwatch, Casual in TF2 or any other teamgame like the old Loadout, etc. Casual is a shitfest, Quickplay is a shitfest. I don't enter these zones without having insanely low standards, because these are fuck around zones where people are acting like clowns which makes things unbalanced. So if things are strange and weird/bad in Casual, I usually just nod it off and accept it, given in those kinds of games Competitive is the true game per se. But more about that down under Feeble's post. So a good match of TF2 Casual for me is a match where players stay and it isn't so same-sided that it's basically a roll. I have low standards when it comes to Casual. How about you quit being incredibly emotional, aggressive and stop putting words into my mouth? TF2's Training sucks donkey dick and the matchmaking system doesn't properly work due to the lack of players alongside of the massive amount of map selection. I quite literally said the second point like... 3-2 pages ago. So I've already "admitted" that. This is something that is hardly debatable and might aswell be fact. My personal view of TF2 and the TF Team itself is a gem caught in a mud puddle that is Valve's structure, something that would be great and valuable but ultimatively gets fucked over by the circumstances it finds itself in. And when I think about the fact that it's just 5 jabronis working on the game, my standards are very, very low and I'm pretty grateful for any drop of content this starved game finds in the desert of time. So basically, I'm questioning standards and what players are expecting out Casual Matchmaking. The biggest drawback of TF2 is the incredibly mediocre and underpopulated Comp mode. If you enter a Comp game and the game is entirely one-sided or insanely unbalanced, this is where I'd entirely accept people twisting their panties over it. TF2 only has casual because competitive still isn't working properly; So all we are left with is Casual. And Casual, by definition, is most of the time a shitfest. Maybe I should keep a tally myself or we should declare a definition what a good game of "Casual" is, but *please* don't try to tell me that I can't "admit" a lot of aspects of TF2, Valve, whatever suck massive ass. This doesn't have anything to do with ego, it simply has to do with different perspectives on things, and I don't expect a lot out of a team of 5 people under a cooperation structure that doesn't grant them the tools and support they, or rather, the game itself deserves.

bottom two, any time, any day.

sniper stink guy

I reported this to valve in an email fairly recently and they said the usual, "I'll forward your email. Thanks." Though given their track record and the fact 2-4 updates have passed with no mention of it, i'm fairly certain they don't care.

its such a prevalent issue wth the source engine even some SFM shorts feature it.

Exactly my thoughts. In fact, back in 2007 the lack of an immediate tutorial to play when opening the game kinda shocked me, but so did Half Life 2. I think part of what justified no tutorial at the time of release though was the fair amount of players coming directly from previous Source games. The beauty of Source is the ability to transfer from one game to the next without any major changes to movement and general controls. Half Life's Hazard Course and the campaign taught me a lot about basic movement and even showed me some of the more complex movement like crouch jumping. Half Life 2 didn't have an immediate tutorial but as I found out while playing the game, they'd lure you into learning things by drawing your attention and preventing you from continuing if you did not move correctly. Its 2018 now and most if not all of the new players joining TF2 have probably not played or for that matter even heard of Half Life. Sad as it may be its probably a pretty accurate assumption. Which then begs the question why the team thought it'd be a good idea in the first place. I'd sooner get rid of the match maker than limit the maps people can play in Team Fortress 2. I strongly believe that ALL matchmakers have a very inherent flaw that no one can do anything about; It can't match players who don't care with others who similarly do not care. Could you imagine paying money to go watch a football or soccer match, but both or maybe just one of the teams very clearly did not care? In order to get the most optimized and arguably the best entertainment BOTH teams need to actively play to their best. There isn't one correct way to play, but there sure as hell is an incorrect way and its really easy to spot those players. I've said this in the past, and I'll say it again. "Casual" is a term people are using nowadays to hind behind an untouchable category in which they can save their appearances in the face of better players. Its always used as an excuse "I don't try because its Casual", "Tryhards ruin my Casual experience", people will actively inhibit team play because its Casual. I have never thought of the servers outside of Competitive as servers in which you must play like a brain dead retard to have fun. Rather I see them as a place I don't have to worry about losing a first place medal in the event I lose a round. It just so happens the vast majority of players in Casual servers are new to FPS and would rather have instantaneous satisfaction instead of feeling a sense of self accomplishment from learning how to overcome most opponents in the game through practice. This goes back to what I mentioned about inherent flaws; matchmakers cannot determine who in the group will actually play the game or not. If I had to pick the lesser of two evils, I'd side with TF2's matchmaker. Because at the very least I wouldn't have to experience getting matched into the same map on random chance several times in a row. War Thunder is notoriously bad about this.

I don't think tf2 truly needs tutorials since all classes can be effective at a near brain dead level in your everyday pub. Even needy classes like scout and spy can still just focus objectives at a newbie level. improvement and dedication only comes with experience and there is no shortcut. if you give up before even starting investment then the game is better off without you.

Really? Probably to simply test it out. TF2 has always been a testing ground, afterall. I personally am all-in for a map rotation that reduces the amount of maps available hourly or something like that, but that's another box. Also, what is the solution? Quickplay has no ELO either, and Id personally argue that matches in Quickplay were EVEN MORE of a shitfest, unbalanced and entirely torn apart. It depends on what each person values the most out of a matchmaking system. I don't know about the second statement. TF2 still has a decent chunk of casual players. You can't compare it with a paid-for competitive football match. I seriously doubt the majority of players in Casual are new players. Atleast in my matches when I glance at the medals, most are outside of the lvl 1 color. And please don't hit me with that "new players are too lazy to learn!" - Being new to the game, entering and getting smashed by Fluttershy34 and his pocket medic Rainbowdash[<3Fluttershy] is not fun, that doesn't have anything to do with the "law of the jungle, eat or be eaten,,,,,,". Its a game. It all boils down to Competitive not being fully utilized and populated. That way Casual would be the designated clown-fiesta and Competitive would be the place where everyone can try their hardest. Right now both kind of players are mixed in the same bag.

a tutorial is not going to make you aim better, or not get dominated, or give you a pocket medic. only the time you invest in the game does. and if eventually you decide that tf2 is not for you, so be it. there's a good chunk of tutorials and guides in youtube to learn and take notes. overwatch has a developed and encouraged comp scene, a "well developed tutorial" and even a good chunk of guides and tutorials for most of the heroes. yet people still pop on, play teh game and drop it.

Well it wasn't always like this right? I swear this is something that's happened at least within the last year or so, because I know for a fact it wasn't always an issue in TF2.

I would love to see the new player retention numbers for TF2, I imagine they're pretty bad in part due to the bad tutorial in the game currently. If a new better tutorial would help increase new player retention and make those players a little better at the game I'm all for it.

Every time you say that it makes me think of someone with Stockholm Syndrome that thanks their captors profusely for giving them some scraps to munch after weeks of privation.

I disagree. Quickplay allowed for players to take a more direct approach at finding what they wanted to play. Not only could you find the map you wanted, but you could also pick from several servers. If you didn't like the balance in the server you could jump to another in a fraction of the time it takes with the match maker. Considering the servers weren't swapping maps every 10-15 minutes you'd also see servers sorting out the balance issue over time in a natural manner. Players would tend to stay on one server making it easier for the flow of players to find something they liked. Part of what adds to the struggle the match maker faces is the frequency in which players leave servers. I don't ever recall seeing similar scenarios with the Quick Play servers that I see on a near every game basis; A party or 3-5 players rage quit after losing a single round which immediately destroys the server as it attempts to find replacements and autobalance the teams. By the time it does anything remotely productive, the second round is over and the server begins changing maps. Casual Matchmaking is a shitfest on every front. I guess the point I was making flew over you. This is true of every single multiplayer game/sport out there. Both teams must play out the objective otherwise there is no meaning to the game other than mindless fuckery. In the rare cases they don't (specifically to tf2) it suitably turns into a DM which is fun in on its own right. Hence Deathmatch gamemodes in other arena games. Whatever it may be, everyone on the field or in the game must simultaneously be striving to do the same thing as the other team. You can't honestly believe walking from Dustbowl first to Dustbowl last in under 5 minutes is fun right? Or on any map for that matter. I consider players under 300 hours to be "new." I consider players with around 700 hours to be interested. I consider players with around 1000 hours to be players. And anything above 2000 shows the player is invested and is a regular. But of course none of these are consistent representations. Casual medals are perhaps the worst method to judge a player by and I'm not surprised you used it as a form of judgement here... You can't see an exact rank/tier. You can't tell from the medal alone if they've played prior to the Meet Your Match update or began playing afterwards. https://puu.sh/BU4l9/c6c8477ed4.png I'm not there yet, but getting close. And as someone who still plays in DX8 I can't even see the color of medals. My judgement comes purely from watching players move about the map. Do they get lost frequently Are they using A or D keys? Do they crouch jump, rocket jump, take shortcuts over railings, etc... Do they help themselves aim using the A or D key? Are they asking silly questions like "how do i change class" in chat, despite managing to find the chat key. There is a lot more to this list but I think you get the point. I'd make the claim you can get an accurate read based on their name and if the avatar is a default question mark but this would be similar to judging based on the casual medal. While it may seem to show true to a stereotype of the sorts, it isn't the best and most accurate method. Back when games were still releasing with single player / offline modes as expected, players had an environment to learn the game without getting run over by players who have been playing longer than they have. Of course its a game but that doesn't mean its void of responsibilities. Just like with anything else you need to learn and practice to get better at it. Problem is people like to think that this isn't the case and they'll be the best of the best in the first 10 games they play. Not to mention if the majority of people call team players in Casual tryhards who the hell are the newer players going to learn from? While I'd argue some players are in fact lazy I believe its more so they aren't given a reason to want to learn. Specially if they get called names for it. While I agree that Competitive not being properly implemented impacts the scenario, I don't believe its the sole reason for discontent. Yes! Competitive is more serious than Casual but Casual is not meant to be more brain dead than picking your nose.

well it's pretty hard to judge whether OW or tf2 has better retention given that blizzard isn't publishing the concurrent players. no doubt there are people dropping it but without knowing the figures it doesn't mean a lot still, you are right, we also have to remember that tutorials are not the biggest problem tf2 has by a long shot. New player experience is disgustingly bad thanks to awful stock netcode and poor optimisation. In my opinion, the game is borderline unplayable without a config, especially the projectile classes. I can't imagine coming from overwatch, testing tf2 and finding the stock game fun.

The game engine can simply barely handle future development anymore, probably diminishing returns for the amount of work put in.