TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V13 - Heavy times
999 replies, posted
tbh mvm isn't relevant toward facing skilled opponents where every detail count.
as long as beast can't respond to the simplest encounters itll remain forever garbage.
No revwalk can be dealt with but slower spin is a massive joke. Take it from the guy who mained it since polycount. (got tired of being a deadweight to fellow meds and just went tomi forever)
I basically only use the Brass Beast if I'm camping a really secure spot or if I need to fight a heavy who has a medic but I don't have one. In pubs I rarely get a medic so stopping a pub stomp is a bit easier if the heavy turns a corner and gets beasted. It's basically the anti-tank weapon and that's it's niche.
If I'm pushing ahead, I use the Tomislav, because there's no reason to use anything else besides maybe stock. The silent rev does come in handy sometimes as well. Natascha I use if I'm defending against a bunch of scouts or demoknights and I need to crowd control. If the enemy has a gang of Scouts terrorizing then it's a nice "fuck you" option.
Huo Long Heater is useless. That thing seriously needs a buff, and there's no reason that Spies should be able to leap over the flames because that makes the one potential use of it pointless. Standing near a payload or dispenser with that is just so pointless because people generally aren't in your face to begin with as a Heavy so it really only affects Spies who can jump over it and Demoknights who aren't bothered by it.
I actually don't like running Dalokohs because that extra HP has a lovely habit of running out at the worst possible moments, and the overheal has been buggy and not applying for me sometimes. I get more use out of the shotgun, because I tend to run into a lot of snipers and the change in posture from the shotgun also helps if I weapon juggle to bait a bodyshot. Also I can corner peak with the shotgun which is helpful in situations where rev jumping would get me murdered. I've taken out a few sentries like this, wheras I'd take damage trying to do that with the minigun (or it'd take a lot longer).
I think the Brass Beast doesn't need any changes, it's got a solid niche as a defensive minigun, but the Huo Long Heater definitely needs some tweaks, if only to make it better against spies.
Brass Beast is such a strange weapon to me.
The only sensible way to buff it, is to entirely change the weapon's stats.
Remove speed penalty and it just requires you to spin up behind a wall first before engaging.
Remove rev speed penalty and you become a mobile sentrygun.
Honestly at that point I'd just suggest wiping the stats clean and make something else that's more interesting.
It's too bad actually since "Stronger, but slower" is such a basic balancing trope that you really feel it would be more viable.
Which map/server is that? I am always looking for new MvM stuff.
I wish it did turn heavy into an actual tank. like giving him a masive defense bonus on the front and/or crit inmunity and a larger ammo pool with far less spread so he could just stand there and shoot endlessly. it kinda works in overwatch with bastion except of course that bastion's minigun has little to no spread, so you can effectively headshot people with it.
yeah which is really annoying because stronger but slower is almost always astoundingly terrible balance anyway. it's always either op/up depending on which stat is more valuable. I don't know why devs even still bother with it
in fact I don't think I can think of a single game where the slow but strong characters are actually well balanced and can think of barely any where they're good
What are you talking about with demoman?
I agree he’s much better stock than heavy, but nobody seriously uses any of his unlocks in competitive, save for maybe the iron bomber as a preference gun or on shorter range maps.
Stock demo is comp demo. The QBL maybe but none of those unlocks are particularly interesting or useful outside gimmick plays or really specific situations, as utility and DPM are king almost everywhere.
I never said otherwise, I merely stated that Demoman has more variety in playstyle as a whole. If I want to be more aggressive with Demoman in a pub, I can do it reasonably well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEt9MyhqKtI
i keep rewatching this video and weeping for the days of community servers, since this video captures that sense of community so well...
I always prefered stock over the brass beast because of it's slow movement speed while firing and/or reving up. Mostly because with stock I can stay on top of all but super scouts like butter and if they run around the corner I don't have to stop firing my gun to reposition myself so that I can see them again. That's the biggest downside to the brass beast in MvM .
How long have you been away from Overwatch? Bastion's minigun is a fucking joke because of how atrocious its spread is and has no headshots.
If anything, the Brass Beast needs the spin up penalty reduced to something like -30% because in most encounters you become a liability if you don't have a shotgun handy.
Anyone knows where I can find the Iron Bomber sounds? I want that powerful "pwamp" to be my SMS default sound.
they're at tf2_sound_misc_dir.vpk/sound/weapons/tacky_grenadier_X.wav
While we are sharing fond community server memories there was this guy that used to do great commentary during matches. Unfortunately this was the only video I could find. It even features yours truly a bit!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJCuz8snOR0
Judging by the name of the bots, that's Skullcove and Hell Overdrive, one of the halloween missions on Canteen Crasher
Its been a year or so since I quit OW. I think I got like 10 hours total of playtime out of it before i got bored.
at least i bought it during the 50% off sale last year.
I know there are many people here that enjoy the push/pull aspect of linear 5CP and Payload maps, and I was wondering if anyone could explain to me what is so appealing about them. I know I've taken flak in the past on this forum for expressing my distaste for these game modes and maps, but I'm not looking for personal attacks, I'm simply curious to know what your thoughts are.
To me, an ideal gameplay loop in TF2 looks like this:
Spawn
Travel the map/position yourself
Frag
Frag
Frag
Frag
(Repeat until next step.) or Accomplish Objective
Death
This loop flows well and ensures that the player experiences a constant state of action while also providing an overarching meaning to the match beyond simple deathmatching. A series of isolated and scattered 1v1 or 2v2 deathmatches places a greater emphasis on individual skill while still maintaining a team framework.
Instead, the gameplay loop for a 5CP or Payload map ends up looking like this:
Spawn
Move forward on linear path
Reach an impasse as two teams meet at one spot to contest the objective
Protracted war of attrition begins
Push forward or retreat
Reach an impasse as two teams meet at one spot to contest the objective
Rinse and repeat
I get that maps forcing team fights can breed strategy and coordinated maneuvers, but that's a tall order on pubs with randomly chosen and uncommunicative teammates. In a 12v12 or 16v16 server, you're going to be facing wall after wall of enemies to stop any advance. The crux of the FPS, the frag, becomes more of a scarcity depending on what class you're playing, and how tightly-knit your opposition is. This loop rewards coordination and strategy above individual mastery, which isn't intrinsically a bad thing, but I find that there's less room for an individual to showcase his/her talent than there should be.
So what are your thoughts on this? (Please keep the discussion mature, let's refrain from "lololol Exor only likes TDM gtfo.)
The appeal is having the objective area move around completely different places each time without having to constantly load new maps.
Breaking a defense means the bulk of the team pushes through, not just 1 or 2 persons. However small encounters are still very common when the server has less than ~24 players.
controversial opinion: 5CP is just TDM with a purpose.
Teamplay is fun and linear progression is, too. A proper coordinated push against an objective even in a small way in just a uber combo and a single pyro is enjoyable and gives you a sense of accomplishment while just fragging in a map feels very pointless and without some kind of end goal. You just kinda pop in, kill people without any kind of large goal and then fuck off when you feel like it. I don't think there is an "accomplish objective" part in a lot of those "90% of the time you frag" maps and if it very much doesn't affect gameplay in the slightest. These maps do not generate these insanely exciting moments where you've got 20 seconds left on the clock and suddenly the pub activates it's brain and you've got the glorious pub push team battle. A 16vs16 is not proper TF2.
Individuals still have a chance to shine in linear gamemodes, there is a massive amount of room for engineers, medics or really any other kind of class to shine and make important kills at important times, arguably being gamechanging. The frag gets more meaning instead of just being another 1+ to your counter.
Maps that disperse teams into small units scattered around don't feel like you are playing with a team. That's why most people didn't enjoy the initial version of rd_asteroid, it was huge, had a lot of gigantic areas and you'd never meet a teammate.
Linear maps are also prone to be more of a team effort instead of "one guy and his pocket gf does all the work" - while that's totally still a thing, it mellows it just a little bit.
That's atleast how I see it. Especially once on a community server where people communicate and coordinate, linear maps shine the most.
welp artifact was released around half an hour ago and it has more players than tf2 right now
That should not surprise you in the least. Valve could release a game that was nothing more than a simple puzzle that unlocked a grainy video of gaben scratching his itchy grundle with a stack of 1000 bills and it'd outpace TF2 until at least the next major update.
its almost like its a new game
So what you're saying is Artifact is the next TF2 killer?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I cant believe tf2 is dead
this is so sad. alexa play the tf2 defeat round song.
Let me put a positive spin on this: TF2 is no more of a dead game now than it was before the official release of Artifact.
matches with balanced teams and people who talk in chat and being good sports about the game are nice
and it somehow even managed to have airblast happy pyros, an all-lime scout, minisentries, and the "i try to trickstab everything" spy
you know it's balanced when the cart at the last point is a permanent death zone to both teams
Isn't player destruction that? Sure you can only score in one position at a time, but it makes anyone an objective, with higher weight towards the people with more souls. I think it plays well as just playing defense unlike 5 cp, isn't a very viable strategy, because you can't prevent everyone on the map from getting souls and it's not so easy to defend the capzone when it moves.
I like cp (not excluding Powerhouse), because it offers a large area for gameplay. With higher player counts I'd argue it's not as easy to steamroll 5cp as it is payload, so when you roll the MM dice and get potatoes it isn't as merciless. Unless your team is rolling engineer has as much of a place in cp as payload. cp is definitely TDM heavy, but without the dying to someone you didn't see as often as flanking is a commitment with chokes between each of the points. On a map so wide like hightower, its not viable to defend the whole border between your teams side and the enemy teams side, so checking all angles becomes a full time job more than it already is with spies. I enjoy cp over payload because it isn't as linear as payload because you have to switching from attacking and defending making more areas of the map relevant at a time, putting more value in DM skills then shoving bodies into a small area.
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TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V13 - Heavy times
