• TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V14 - The Bargaining Stage
    999 replies, posted
thanks geel, havent used the site before, but i was wanting to buy in bulk and decided to give it a try
It's not even OG, as it can murder you to make you switch teams, no matter if you have uber or buildings.
Actualy didnt the pre jungle inferno autobalance say that teams will be rebalanced in x seconds without mentioning the fact that the change will only be made if a person of that team dies? I dont remember the text clearly from back then but in comparison to this it seems to be more accurate to the original description (regardless of my opinion of it's current implification.)
Don't know if it's the right thread for that, but. Why did Valve think it was necessary to nerf Dragon's Fury hitbox size? Like it's a short range weapon, and in the game with rocket launchers, that are on par with it, but also have splash damage. And guys. what do you think if Dragon's Fury had splash damage on non player impact. Just small splash damage withot ignition.
its a shame giftapults have the tendency to throw shit into bot inventories I've sent away a rare-ish strange but it appears to have landed at some bot, merry christmas
That's why I don't bother with the Giftapults, I couldn't see that kind of gift-giving system work in any community, video-game-based or otherwise, unless it was like 500 people that are all active. But doing it in a game that's been free to play for 7 years? It's like outright saying "this will definitely end up in a bot account or an account of somebody that played for 5 minutes".
Throw Giftapults to players who are currently playing in Valve servers.
I always had a funny feeling that @Geel looked like Todd Howard
Do you have evidence to back up what you're saying about TF2Maps?
I was told things by a reliable source in the community. And yeah, I edited them in fairly quickly after writing that bit. Realized I should provide any kind of "evidence" I can no matter if it's just text. I can't give away who specifically told me this stuff (privacy reasons) but I believe the person.
Was teien expert the mission where the final wave was a giant heavy med combo?I think when i was on at that time we only beat it by having our pyro airblast them into the train.
Sounds like Program Seppuku by Quenquent which was featured in Teien on advanced.
You mean expert was something even harder than that?
It's suspicious sure, but the staff are actually really really really good mappers. Especially Freyja. Also, in that contest, they had both a public and staff vote, and you can see a lot of the same results even in the public vote.
Still seems kinda fucky that one staffer won in 3 separate areas, and how the judging criteria was changed midway through the contest.
It wasn't changed though. They were saying they realized it was bad but they didn't want to change the rules mid-way. So it was going to be changed for the next competition.
the worst part about mappers v machines was that the rules said that any alpha maps were not allowed as only beta/release candidate maps are eligible for entry into the contest then we get the shortlist and Relic is in there, an alpha map that was never finished, to this day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dIb-iplqt8
"I have talked to a lot of people..." We need proper examples and proper stories. I had a lot of under the hood with TF2 Maps and while I'm currently in a map making hiatus, when they ban people, it's usually deserved from what I have seen. 3 or so were kiddies which had epic swastika objectors and renames with racial slurs; Same goes for discord. And while I do believe a fair part of the community is I suppose somewhat over-sensitive in my eyes, the implications your post carries are giving me a very bad vibe. As far as the contest goes; You went into this discussion saying "They rigged the contest" and then suddenly backpedaled to not having proper proof. "I was told things from a reliable source" isn't proof.
everyone knows barren advanced was the best
certainly better than Teien's Expert was, that's for sure
Ok, in order: I can't provide the name of the person who told me about the contest rigging as the person requested not to be named. I also, out of respect for that individual, had to remove certain bits about a community owner who wasn't happy with the decisions during the contest and after, and who pulled out of further contests. The person providing me info didn't want that individual named out of his respect for that individual. Yes, the swastika kiddies bans were earned. Bravo to the staff for having to endure such mental duress after seeing such nasty swastika signs in a video game. However, the individuals I've spoken to have provided their side of events that took place in the Discord leading up to the ban and from what I've read, there was nothing remotely banworthy. No backpedalling here. I posted the first half of that post first, then did a 2nd post that got merged into the 1st post a little sooner than I should've. I had forgotten to put in the info I was given at the time and didn't realize my fuckup until I F5'd the page and actually read my post, hence why I edited it in quickly afterwards. Yes, they've been helpful at times, but it's mostly been the community members who are non-staff who have helped the most. I will drop this bit of knowledge. One person who was very recently banned from the Discord recently was on thin ice at the time. Why was he on thin ice? He said a situation he had encountered while mapping was "retarded". A staff member stepped in and referred to him using "retarded" to describe the situation as being "ableist". This led to a whole big discussion about censorship of the word "retard" and the discussion led to him being on thin ice. That person had over 4,000 comments in the Discord chock full of extensive mapping information and entity info and updates which are now all gone thanks to how he was banned. Then these events occurred involving a second user (who provided that paste to me to explain what had happened prior to his ban), which led to both users being banned at the same time. You can choose to believe me if you want to. That's your decision to make. I choose to believe what I've been told, especially along with what I've witnessed. This is my last post on the subject of TF2Maps. Probably my last post entirely.
(meant to quote the part about TF2Maps but whatever) I don't actually believe you, but even if I did... that doesn't change the fact that TF2Maps is by far the largest community and resource for mapping in TF2. it would be beyond stupid to develop a TF2 version of Hammer without consulting the one community that is almost exclusively dedicated to TF2 mapping. even if the staff is shady, which they aren't, but if they were...they're still comprised of a ton of skilled mappers whose input, alongside the rest of the community they moderate, would be invaluable for something like this.
Well it boils down to actually wanting to know *what* happened. So far you only said "they got banned and they totally didn't deserve it - On discord.". Do these individuals also do not want to be mentioned? And number 6 is actually very much relatable because the same shite happened to me (ignoring the getting banned part) given I used that word to describe something. That's why my initial post said TF2 Maps has some fellas which are, atleast from my personal perspective, "oversensitive". In my situation I simply said the gate in that one overwatch map where you cant hover over as pharah is pretty retarded, then like 2 people wanted to start some shit about it, a discussion happened, and given I know how these kind of things end I simply said if it makes some people uncomfortable I'll stop using that word in that specific Discord. That happened a good year ago or so, roughly. So yeah; Fair enough.
Hey, TF2Maps.net staff member here. I want to talk about the contest rigging rumors because I've seen that story passed around a decent amount. I'm not here to tell you that our contests are not rigged (because it just becomes an endless game of He Said, She Said, and that will get us nowhere), so instead I'll just try to provide as much context as possible on the situation and where I think these claims come from. I also can't think of any better way to spend my Christmas morning. So: Issue 1: Staff won pretty much every prize in the contest. Why? There's a couple reasons for this. One is that experienced mappers tend to become staff by virtue of being involved in the community for a long time. Not all good mappers are staff and not all staff are good mappers, but there's a general correlation. In the case of this contest, Freyja (who took 1st and 3rd) has been mapping since 2009. I took 2nd place and have been mapping since 2007 (mapping for TF2 in particular since 2012). Both of us have at least one map in the game. The other issue is that we went with a contest format that didn't turn out as designed. For our previous contest (Asymmetry 2) we tried out a new format where, in addition to the standard 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places, there are "caption awards" to recognize maps that may not have placed well overall, but did well within a particular category. The idea of this was specifically to try and recognize more than just the top three maps. It worked decently in that contest, and we decided to reuse the idea for the MvM contest. We also have a rule that allows anyone to enter up to two maps into a contest, just in case. It's rarely taken advantage of. The combination of both of these contest rules backfired pretty significantly. Instead of recognizing maps besides the winners, the caption awards just re-recognized the maps that already won. In addition, Freyja made two maps that were both scored highly. The result is that it more or less shut out anyone else from being recognized in the final results. We weren't very happy about this. In contests since, we've gone back to the old format of only placing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd maps, and instead of caption awards, we do a more in-depth breakdown of the map scores, giving more individualized attention to maps that did not win. You can see that in the results of our Connect 5 Contest. Also notable in this contest is that Freyja/UEAKCrash voluntarily withheld their map from winning (because they're tired of people complaining when they do well), and my own map was withheld because I was a judge. (This turned out to be a good idea because our maps took 1st and 2nd in the overall scoring.) (Note: 2nd and 3rd place were taken by staff members in this contest. However, these members only became staff about a week before the contest deadline.) Issue 2: The judging process didn't go as planned, and many maps were eliminated early on without being given the same amount of play time as other maps. Why? The last time we ran a MvM contest, we got 7 entries. We expected a similar turnout, and instead got 44 entries. Whenever we get a large turnout, we run a round of preliminary judging before choosing finalists to get a full consideration, and we decided to do the same for this contest. Judging is time consuming - in the case of this contest, every map takes about 4 hours to judge properly (1 hour per match, 2 popfiles per map, 2 tests per popfile). For 7 maps, this means asking for 28 hours of volunteer time from each judge. 44 maps comes out to 176 hours of volunteer time, which is almost exactly a month of a 40 hr/wk schedule. There were 16 finalists in the end, which is maybe the most we've allowed into a finalists round in any contest. We got a decent number of complaints about this system, partially because we didn't disclose the way our finalists system works from the start, and because certain maps were eliminated that other people thought should have gone onwards. The former was a mistake, and we've addressed it by disclosing at the start of each contest that, if we receive a lot of entries, there will be multiple rounds of voting. The latter is harder to address, since opinions on maps are subjective, and it would be difficult for me to talk about the issue without picking on particular maps. However, two things: 1: Many of the maps that went onto the finalist round are made by TF2Maps members, and many of the maps that were eliminated were made by people outside of the community. I don't want to make any claims about TF2Maps mappers being better than the rest. However, there are some general shared values within the community about what makes a map good or bad. As such, a map from a TF2Maps member is more likely to cater to a TF2Maps judge's tastes. 2: The first post made claiming that the contest was rigged was... emotional and unfounded, at best. It was deleted the same day it went up, but lives on in the quotes later on in the thread. You can read it here if you'd like. I don't really want to say much about it. I don't believe this comment is the sole origin of people claiming that the contest was rigged, but it should provide some insight. Issue 3: Hydrogen has a sour relationship with TF2Maps staff because he believes the contest was rigged. I have not heard this before. It may be true. However, I can guarantee you that it is not the sole reason why TF2Maps staff and Hydrogen do not get along. It's not my story to tell, and the people who could tell the story would prefer not to. I hope this clarifies things. Please ask if you have any questions.
Oof. As of this writing: If you're logged in to Steam, don't log out. If you're not logged into Steam, you won't be able to do so. You'll get "The account name or password that you have entered is incorrect." for a valid username/password. Merry Christmas from Gaben!
Communities can ban anyone for any reason. It's not a right to be part of the TF2maps community. If they don't want people who think it's okay to go around saying "retarded" as a pejorative, that's their prerogative. You know how many times I've heard people whine about a "totally unjust ban" and it turned out, hey, this person's actually just a piece of shit?
Had to come back to say one thing, and say it on behalf of two of the users mentioned who were recently banned from the TF2Maps Discord; While you may think those people are pieces of shit, the case is often that you don't know the person on a personal level and are only judging them based on interactions that occurred online and in many cases, after that person was baited by others into responding in a certain way. And in some cases, perhaps if you had gotten to know these people, you would've known some of them were going through some deep personal issues. So maybe people like you, and the staff of these communities should start making a concerted effort to get to know the people in your community a little more instead of listening to a bunch of bystanders dredging up all sorts of past incidents from up to a decade ago and using that against them. Perhaps these people have changed over the years? But how would any of you know?
I am not going to put immense effort into learning the intricate details of the life of someone who enters my discord and starts calling people "fags," sorry. Being in a discord server is not a right. Don't break the rules if you care about being there. Don't be an asshole if you want people to think you're not an asshole. They may be having a shit day, but the people they're abusing are definitely having a shit day, due to some asshole causing problems. I'm going to prioritize those who aren't being dicks, thanks.
the big problem with the mindset you're presenting here is that it basically means you can't take action against poor behavior from anyone because 'you don't know them well enough to know that they really are the kinda people you don't want around' rules do exist to give people guidelines on what is and what isn't allowed and once you begin to skirt around those lines, you can't just say "oh no I don't act like this all the time" or anything of the sort
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