TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station V14 - The Bargaining Stage
999 replies, posted
Hmm... Still can't login to Steam through browsers. Good luck to those of you that *can* enter the raffle.
I was with you until this line.
I've been using the Scorch Shot since 2013. The single WORST aspect of the weapon is that it allows Phlog pyros to build mmph. "Good" Phlog pyros (such that they are) equip the Mannmelter. I have said this before and I will continue to do so: only the Mannmelter and the Phlog itself should increase mmph via burn damage. I'd give a possible exception to the SVF, because it'd still be a piece of shit, but that's it.
Uhh vaccinator?
I never said that it was an acceptable thing, just that good players with knowledge of the mechanics use Scorch for solely those two reasons.
Phlog's Mmph should only regenerate from primary attacks, not secondary or melee to prevent players from playing entirely safe just to build Phlog.
Yes Mannmelter is pretty shitty, but gimmicking a stat with another weapon kinda defeats the purpose of free-flowing weapon loadouts to suit needs.
Personally I'd like to see Mannmelter receive a quicker switch to speed depending on amount of crits stored.
That way extinguishing and even punishing with crits is far quicker.
fan.. loosecannon.. huntsman, natty, circuit, wrangler. depends what degree of annoying you're into
short circuit hard counters demoman and soft counters spies and soldiers
WHO IS SUPPOSED TO COUNTER ENGINEER AGAIN? 🤔
Literally every other class
Shotgun
I've posted this before but I thought I'd bring it forward considering the conversation is relevant again.
There are a few weapons that take the base concept and basically give a direct upgrade while reducing overall efficiency as its main drawback (if you want to call that a negative).
A comprehensive list of the weapons I find obnoxious and not so fun to play against: (ordered by class)
Force-A-Nature
Shortstop
Soda Popper
Black Box
Reserve Shooter
Backburner
Phlogistinator
Dragon's Fury
Scorch Shot
Axtinguisher
Loch-n-Load
Loose Cannon
The entirety of Demoknight's weapons. Shields, Swords, Movement control from boots.
Vaccinator
Huntsman
Sydney Sleeper (although not as bad as it was)
Diamondback
Red-Tape Recorder
In addition to the list of weapons, there are some mechanics I find frustrating:
Random Crits...
Airblast (Airblasting soldiers from the back shouldn't 180 the rocket into their face, happens in comp too...)
Flame Particles (Still broken!, Momentum is still wonky)
Stun Lock; Loose Cannon, Scorch Shot, Force-of-Nature (FoN can do it in some circumstances)
Knockback bonuses
It'll take a bit to justify my reasoning for the listed weapons above however the common theme these weapons have is the nature in which they perform. Take a mechanic from the base game and make it easier to do while sacrificing the efficiency you'd have using a stock weapon.
Scout
Force-A-Nature, Soda Popper, Shortstop:
The Force-of-Nature is basically: More bullets per shot (harder to miss), Knock player in predictable direction(easier to land a second shot), simplifies 2 shotting 125 hp classes.
The Soda Popper is the same thing, except the lack of a knock back.
The Shortstop gives scout some annoying fire power at range and I don't think its necessary. Just try sniping a sentry with it. You'll immediately see what I mean.
Soldier
Black Box, Reserve Shooter
The Black Box is a pretty weird scenario. It makes for a great weapon for Soldier to use when there isn't a medic to heal him or the team... But at the same time it turns the 1v1 into an uphill battle for whoever is facing it and turns Soldier into a tank when he engages crowds of people in chokes.
The Reserve Shooter...
Pyro
Backburner, Dragon's Fury, Phlogistinator, Scorch Shot, Axtinguisher
The Backburner is on this list primarily because of its wonky nature. Much like the "face stab" phenomenon, you can experience this with the Backburner. Otherwise, you're better off using the stock flamethrower cause Random Crits are more frequently available to you.
The Dragon's Fury doesn't need to two shot most buildings. The Dragon's Fury doesn't need the hitbox it has. The Dragon's Fury shouldn't penetrate players (three shotting both combo members...)
The Plhogistinator is one of the most over powered weapons I've seen implemented in this game. If the consistent spawn traps on Dustbowl third don't make this weapon's over powered nature clear enough, I'm not sure what else could convince you. The ease in which MMMPH is obtainable and the lack of required skill to aim the crits you were rewarded for doing your job is brain dead in nature and is 100% un-fun to play against.
The Scorch Shot tops the list of obnoxious weapons though. I have no clue why this thing hasn't been nerfed yet. You can stunlock and effectively shut down an uber with the scorch shot alone. On top of the stunlock, you can knock people back based on where the projectile hits them and in what direction they are moving. You'll deal mini crits on already aflame targets and doing so is stupidly easy with the generous splash and the nature of the projectile's arch. With the lack of afterburn damage nerfs for flares, you can effectively keep someone aflame and taking full afterburn damage from across the map.
The Axtinguisher is like a demoknight that can't charge at you but is guaranteed additional damage for simply hitting you when the time is right. Its not hard to close the gap nor is it difficult to hit someone inside of your active hitbox. Unlike the market gardener, it doesn't matter where you are.
Demoman
Loch-n-Load, Loose Cannon, Demoknight
The Loch-n-Load has always been a frustrating weapon, the only difference made to it recently was the redirection of its effectiveness. Want to snipe people with crit pipes? Want to make countering an engineer's sentry that much easier? This weapon is here to make doing that easier!
The Loose Cannon's gimmick revolves around a Stun Lock mechanic, but can also deal stupid amounts of knockback. You can tap fire it at people if you know the optimal distance to doubledonk people. Its not more efficient than well landed pipes, but its obnoxious to play against and often leads to some very annoying stunlock or extreme knockback deaths (similar to the scorch shot). If you can time your reloads, you don't even need to doubledonk people until you've shot them around like a pinball with the first 3 cannons.
Demoknight as a whole is similar, but is far more effective and efficient against players who are not communicating, casual or not. The explosive resistances on the shields lets demoknights get directed by stock rocket launchers 5 times with health to spare in a relatively easy right-click sprint back to spawn. The usual spy class spam in Casual makes farming heads that much easier, letting demoknights acquire more health, and a speed that rivals scouts. Playing passively with the resistances and shield speed is not hard. Its obnoxious to play against something you can't effectively dumpster in one go like he can with his right-click crits, silly "fire-rate" with no reload, and the generous active hitbox melee system.
Medic
Vaccinator
The Vaccinator can forcibly make up for the lack of raw skill your combo has and effectively turn the tide against combos that give you trouble. It has a similar nature to the old Darwin's Danger Shield in which the team not using this weapon will be at a disadvantage.
Sniper
Huntsman, Sydney Sleeper
The Huntsman is obnoxious to play against considering it naturally counters player habits. Players will dodge into arrows. Players will successfully dodge the arrow but misjudge the time it takes to flyby and walk right back into it. You can't hear the sniper when he shoots a huntsman like you can when he shoots a rifle (makes you wonder why the heatmaker's silencer is still easily audible...)
The Sydney Sleeper is like the Machina when it comes to body shots. Except its more efficient due its increased charge rate. You don't need to take your time aiming with this weapon. It's not the worst of things to face though.
Spy
Diamondback, Red-Tape Recorder
The Diamondback is the Ambassador without the skill part.
The Red-Tape Recorder was made purely to smite the interests of engineers. Its similar to getting thanked by the player that just killed you, but with middle fingers in every direction.
I don't have anything against implementing different ways to kill people but when weapons reduce the difficulty as a trade off for less efficient output I have a problem with it.
Since we're on the topic, I made a comprehensive list of every weapon I personally find annoying in TF2 and that I hope is reworked, if not outright removed. Yes, their may be some controversial picks in here, but I heartily believe that EVERY weapon in this list needs SERIOUS work.
hearing that they said they'd get back to him shows they do have plans for the future, so thats good at least
remove all weapons even the ones I like
remove every map while we're at it, and make this the only playable one.
Xmarksit almost nailed it but here's the deal with Scorch Shot
For a very long period of time after its release on pyromania, players failed to understand its harassing strength and were used to the brute impact of flare and shotgun. This is the reason valve gave it nothing but buffs over buffs.
The flare has splash when hitting inorganic objects. This means it explodes upon the map. The thing is literally a rocket, except the 90 damage is dealt over time rather than in one hit. As a secondary that auto reloads.
This splash has so much potential that you can literally hold a choke with scorch if the enemy team has no medics.
Obviously the splash is a godsend to less able players. Shoot the map, shoot the floor, hit a choke, you'll burn people constantly. Even detonator doesn't create splash when colliding with objects. "fire and forget" in infinite ways.
The lingering pellet (after a player hit) should be its main focus and gimmick, however it only turns the knife in the wound as it increases dmg via minicrit and burning nearby people that weren't hit by the projectile. A solid hit means you'll do double the damage potential on a single person in a single attack.
The thing provides a limited self jump, devours stickybombs and even causes a lingering pellet on a teammate hit.
The knockback is baked. This alone is terrible even if we assume the knockback has a legitimate purpose considering the gun is already full of unique abilities in the first place.
JI buffed its afterburn as a tragical side effect
breaks mvm by overriding giant push resistance but who cares i guess
this weapon is a blight to watch, use and get shot by. It rewards mistakes as much as excellency and it's a favorite amongst players that will never actually get better at the game (or don't wish to).
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/3/32/Scorchshot.png/250px-Scorchshot.png
The concept CAN work, it would be a shame to waste its neat assets and design. This flaregun is meant to sacrifice individual damage and instead do some limited crowd control / spread as much burn as possible. If you ask me these are the needed changes :
It must no longer produce splash when striking non-players surfaces
The mini-crit upon burning target gotta go. The impact being crappy must be a key factor.
The special knockback can go fuck itself. Pyro's primaries take care of pushing business.
ban all pyros and replace them with another skill-based class like a cyborg ninja or the mascot from super monday night combat.
remove the entire game. we're going back to TFC lads.
Double negative - we can't remove the entire game and go back to TFC, because TF2 already removed Grenades so... we'll be double-not-TFC?
Pyro is probably the most skill-indexed it's ever been as a class at this point without also being useless. There's the classic "but it's still easy to die to a w+m1 pyro" argument, but the counter there is "just don't walk only backwards against a Pyro", just like the arguments leveraged against Sniper is "don't just walk forward nonchalantly", the argument against Spy is "don't only look forward, constantly check around you", et cetera.
What the hell are you talking about?
Vasquez is saying we should start playing TFC again. Really, though, we should be playing Fortress Forever.
replace pyro with dante from the devil may cry series
I'm making a joke big brain. I thought that was blatantly obvious
I like scorch because fuck stickies
Counterpoint: detonator
It's significantly harder to destroy stickies with the detonator than it is with the scorch shot. You'd have an easier time with the shotgun.
whats up with det and scorch doing all 3 fire, bullet and explosive damages anyway? it doesn't even feel intended and is just a mess
yeah. it should also deal explosive damage.
Looks like we had another round of fake TF2 items. Another Russian outfit released a "game" on Steam that drops fake Golden Frying Pans ...that look like they're Dota2 items. Solid .ru/10 right there.
https://i.redd.it/d8g3vpmnet621.png
Valve have already removed the game. The SCM listing is still up, and it's UTTERLY NSFW. Don not click unless your day is lacking penis.
Given that it only costs $100 to release a game on Steam these days, it's quite possible this is the same "dev" that pulled this trick previously.
"free blowjob coupon from sourcegames.ru
to use it you must:
1) join the staem group
2) join the discord
3) send a message to any of the admins informing of your wish to receive the service"
Brilliant
You'd think that if they were just going to copy a game, they'd had picked TF2 instead of Dota to make it more believable...
Thank god I'm not interested in any of those higher tiered garbage though.
I dare to say its far more versatile and fun to figh with and agaisnt.its always amazing to hit people behind corners thanks to it.
shouldn't have a dmg penalty. That is all.
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