TF2 General Chat & Speculation Station V15 - Buff Pyro plz - Games

Since when? The entirety of the past two pages the complaints have been that Sniper too effectively kills all classes too quickly.

anyone with competitive experience will agree quickscopes involve more than "i cant do anything and the sniper will always hit me". They don't happen as much as everyone thinks they do. Mould nailed it last page and im pretty sure he plays comp. headshots as a mechanic is fine for the effort it demands. Bodyshots however are guaranteed hits for any average-to-skilled snipers.

Mannconnomy was in 2010. Have to wait another year there.

Then make my change so that it only ever mini-crits.

Oops, slight miscalculation

The machina is a straight upgrade. It's "downsides" ...aren't. Remove either one of its bonuses (the extra damage or the penetration) and it's still OP. The piss rifle also sucks to fight against, but not nearly as much. The minicrit-on-headshot mechanic is irritating, but less so than any of the rifles that do full crits. The real issue with the Sleeper is the faster charging time. Those piss soaked 150 damage bodyshots arrive entirely too quickly. This is to say nothing of now trying to endure minicrits from everyone if one survives the first attack.

as for the sleeper, perhaps nerfing the actual damage the sniper could do would be in order? Half the damage or make it a max of 125 so it can be more of a support sniper and less of a "i can't hit shit" sniper (like how i use it :V)

once again, the original design of the sydney was the best and fairest, as was the vast majority of items. The only problem was coating ubered players. The legacy of the ancient TF2 team was often spot-on, because their interest and knowledge easily competed with the best players in the game at the time. Of course they still immensely fucked up at times like slow/stun, but I suppose those were "experiments" to them. this TF2team nowadays just constantly uses item bases that already suffered nerfs/buffs years ago and keep stacking more nonsense into them. Then they wonder why people hate this and valve just gives up balancing completely / do it once every two or three years.

The railgun was available to everyone that happened to find it, it wasn't the exclusive domain of a single class of character.

I just checked scrap.tf and realized I won a raffle made by Geel... 20 days ago. This is the second time I forgot to log into the website or open TF2 in general. Oh well, its finally time to play with a friend, let's see who can rage faster.

The machin should take longer to charge, that's all

Today is the tenth anniversary of Meet the Heavy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHgZh4GV9G0

god DAMN it me too

It's not Meet the Heavy

I thought date wise it would be the anniversary, but oops .

Oh god those matches.... First time I was sent to a Stockholm inwhich I was autobalanced less than 2 minutes in. Not even in the other side of the world I'm safe of autobalance. Next ones became a general shitfest of bad teammates and the usual binders.

Just reverse the rolls in this vid I got last night... I can see the "out of nowhere argument" but that applies to a lot more than just Sniper. I'm sure a lot of people get equally frustrated with backstabs, the loose cannon double donk stun locking, the scorch shot stun locking, the cleaver, the huntsman... But what sets the 150 body shot damage apart from the things listed there, it takes Sniper's scope time to charge up, and that is plenty of time (on average) for players to spot and react to the sniper aiming at them. I genuinely believe a majority of these "I just got body shot for 150 by some random scrub, how is that any fun" moments are primarily due to a lack of awareness and unfamiliarity with the WASD, Crouch and Jump keys. Look at how hard this scout beefs! I out played his aim by using ONLY my movement keys! If he had hit me once or twice I'd have been dead. I only heard him shoot 5 times with his scatter-gun. It is beyond me as to why he didn't use the 6th shot, but nevertheless you shouldn't go underestimating the movement in this game. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/315994/d1d1ed5f-9d2c-4078-bd80-24eedd18fdb2/onebeeftoomany.mp4

tradenoobs down

yes...because TF2 is a class shooter, too, not just an arena shooter. that changes how you have to look at its balance, but it still means that you can't argue against Sniper existing on basis that arena shooters don't have long range combat. arena shooters have even deadlier ranged weapons, and in theory the first person who gets to it can simply camp the spot they're at and snipe people before they can cover the distance. (I wonder why this isn't a problem?...oh yeah, mobility!) anyway, just wanted to pitch in with that. my stance, in case it has been forgotten, is that I agree that Sniper could use more counterplay added to the game, especially in the form of Spy buffs/changes to make him better for the job. however, I also believe that effective Sniper counterplay still does exist in the form of high-mobility classes, and the multiple weaknesses of the Sniper class that make him prone to getting ambushed. nobody @ me with that "but why don't you think sniper needs counterplay?" shit.

tbh just nerf the shit out of the Razorback and lower body shot damage and sniper would be fine. Like take half his remaining health on a backstab and remove the ability to magicly regen the shield after 30 secs.

I don't really think the razorback really needs any more changes, at least not for the time being. Is it really still a problem at all?

The razorback is a hard counter to the sniper's hard counter (spy). It's addition to the game breaks up the "rock, paper, scissors" dynamic of TF2 and makes it so the only way to take out a skilled sniper is with another skilled sniper in many scenarios (I'll admit this isn't always the case, but I've been in so many games that were dictated by which team had the better sniper it's not funny) this means a game can boil down to who has the most skilled sniper and if no one is good enough to countersnipe there's almost no other option to counter with since spy is almost useless against a sniper with the razorback. it's a "get out of jail free" card that pretty much breaks the dynamic of TF2.

the no-overheal kinda fixed that tho

This is what I feel as well. Now that sniper's no longer get overhealed with that on gunning them down isn't really all that difficult. You just need to pay attention a little to make sure you won't be destroyed by one of his teammates usually.

I just want the recharge mechanic removed from Razorback, it doesn't make sense gameplay-wise or design-wise. Razorback isn't what makes Razorback powerful, the knowledge that Razorback is equipped makes it powerful. Spies being forced to ignore Snipers, especially ones near their teammates, is what makes the weapon powerful, especially in a world where Amby is nerfed to not be a long-ranged cannon. Why give it a recharge function? Best-case scenario with that addition, a Sniper that gets it broken now... can get it back without going back to spawn? Does that even affect gameplay positively in any way? I think it's perfectly balanced in its current state without recharge.

The razorback on principle should not exist. It makes life pointlessly difficult for the class who provides the most of what miserably little non-sniper counterplay sniper has, and in all other situations is a direct downgrade and a waste of data space if spy isn't picked or run. And now it regenerates. Sometimes I really do think that the tf team has never played before in their lives outside countless hours in a dev server against bots. Pyro still being a no-range low damage butt monkey after JI and its historic wait time is proof of this. And speaking of dev time being pissed away on gimmicks- yes. I totally forgot to mention that, these high mobility classes can indeed cheese crap like the bonk, vaccinators, demoknight shields, sandman, and several others to use against sniper. How silly of me. That makes things more balanced, right?

Related, why does the DDS give afterburn immunity? I understand how annoying Scorch Shot spam is, but if there is ONE class that doesn't deserve to not flinch after getting hit with a flare, it's Camping Long Shoot Man. Pyro is a mess of bad ideas and broken mechanics, and while he's annoying to fight he is still fundamentally UP. As we've discussed ad nauseam, Sniper is un-fun to fight against. Flare spam is about the only thing pyro can do against Sniper (other than sneaking behind him and bashing his brains in with a car battery, but I digress...) I think the TF2 team has some career sniper mains that are willfully blind to how out of place and OP in skilled hands the class is and make some at best "questionable" design decisions because of their own biases.

joke is, based on the video, that teamwork (cake) makes the game fun like any other coop game, but one game depends heavily on it(OW) and the other benefits from it(TF2). In tf2 teamwork often leads to fun but you can also play solo and still contribute to the overall effort, both on pubs and comp play. teamwork can spawn naturally in pubs and when it does you naturally grow empowered. and if you don't you can still play solo and have an impact, even in crowded servers. In OW you will enjoy a match ONLY if you're teamed with competent people who understands the game's meta(wich often means play with friends or else). you're fucked if you just want to play - and not only that, you'll get yelled at for doing so and punished accordingly.

I was referring to core mobility options like explosive jumping don't twist my point to be about gimmick weapons, you know that isn't what I was talking about

What are you talking about. These things hurt sniper and while gimmicks on their own, become that much more useful against the kiwi longshoot man, I'm dead serious. I haven't played 2fort in about three years, but I did recently and had a blast cabering snipers. Same thing with the soda popper: THAT level of ridiculous movement is an acceptable level of class counterplay for sniper. Sure its completely unbalanced everywhere else, but that's the lengths you have to go to, to get a fair fight with a sniper.