TF2 General Chat & Speculation Station V15 - Buff Pyro plz - Games

Demoman takes the title for highest DPM of all the classes and this is an established fact, and yet no one seems to complain. The class is perhaps the most versatile and most capable in the game, so why is it that we don't see many people complaining about its prowess with direct comparison to Sniper? Sniper often deals in scenarios where the damage he deals is an instant death for the target, or close to, and if not either 50 or 0. This is true for Demoman as well, but Sniper does it from a range. In the time it takes sniper to charge up a 150 damage shot to the body, Demoman can pump out well over 250. Again the difference being that Sniper is doing this from range. Is the real issue that people have with sniper the ranged aspect and not the instant damage that more than just sniper are capable of? I'm more than certain this is what it boils down to, but if we're speaking honestly here... Every map has a counter to a sight line that any class is perfectly capable of using to counter this ranged conundrum. Demoman can move the distance a Sniper engages at with 1-2 stickies with one or more jumps. This makes for closing the gap on a sniper relatively easy. So can soldier. Spy can close the distance while completely cloaked! Scout can shoot and scoot. As you mentioned, flareguns are quite powerful, and the scope hop dealt by bullets touching sniper as he's scoped is equally annoying to deal with. But a lot of these scenarios are hard to spot from an outside perspective, so for those of you that haven't played sniper I urge you to do so. Just like I've run into very skilled snipers, I've also run into very skilled Demos, Pyros, Soldiers, Medics, etc... And they're all equally difficult to deal with! And for good reason. They play the class for hours on end. Reducing Snipers damage output in his current state wouldn't work out well in the long run and most probably reduce his effectiveness all together. I don't like this idea one bit. The flinch mechanic is already solid enough and landing a single bullet on sniper from any bullet-based weapon in the game is not hard at all. I believe the complaint about getting quickscoped by a sniper stems from the issue that the flanker underestimated his target. Sniper needs to be aware of flankers, and more specifically spies. Running at a straight line to the sniper even if you think he doesn't know you're there is lazy. Ensure your victory. Taking away class's abilities to survive in scenarios they normally shouldn't would make this game much more rigid and play like Overwatch; a game devoid of a consistent meta and classes that can do more than 3 things.

Because Demoman's skill ceiling is much higher due to his projectile delay on sticky launchers and his arcing projectile on grenade launchers, requiring a substantial amount of skill and experience to consistently hit pills or to actually kill with a sticky launcher. The difference is a good Sniper can literally do that in .05 seconds, or the miniscule amount of time it takes to, again, scope in, flick to a head, and press lmb. Demoman has to anticipate your movement. A good Sniper is also much safer than a good Demoman - even the best Demoman is much more susceptible to a Spy (low movement speed), Scout (no hitscan weapons outside of melee range), and other classes that can deal out damage faster (Heavy if spun up, Soldier with ground advantage, and, again, Sniper). Demoman's range is also inherently limited by his projectiles arcing - Demoman has a specific radius that in which he is most effective, outside of it the class becomes much harder to consistently deal damage with. You seem to be ignoring my initial point that a good Sniper literally has to flick to your head while scoped in and do 150 damage in less time than it takes to fire 2 pipes as Demoman, not even factoring aiming the pipes in. There is no counter to that. Sightlines aren't a guaranteed counter - if he can't see you, chances are you can't see him, so unless you're scarily accurate with projectiles, the Sniper is still alive, and can still kill people. Also, suggesting people play Sniper means nothing. Sniper still has a high skill ceiling, nobody is suggesting he doesn't. The problem is once that skill ceiling is reached, the output of damage is unrivaled. I urge you to play against good Snipers, the best Snipers in the game. Or hell, even look up frag videos from good Snipers. All it takes is the flick. None of the classes you listed beyond Sniper can literally kill you in ~.05 seconds. A Demoman needs to be able to consistently hit you with his pipes or lay a sticky trap and wait, a Pyro is only an effective killing machine if you're a projectile class and they can predict your projectile timing, Medic can't even kill, Soldier requires a height advantage to consistently put out damage against people due to how jumping works. They all have counterplay baked in. And you're basing this conclusion on.....? What you specifically think of the class? Nobody's even suggested an agreed-upon way to actually fix the Sniper. Your post is arguing points I never even mentioned. I'll make my point plain and clear, and if you ignore it, chances are I'll just ignore your response, because I've been in these arguments in the thread before, and they lead nowhere. A good Sniper literally has to flick to your head while scoped in and will do 150 damage immediately. A good Sniper literally has to flick to your head while scoped in and will do 150 damage immediately. A good Sniper literally has to flick to your head while scoped in and will do 150 damage immediately. A good Sniper literally has to flick to your head while scoped in and will do 150 damage immediately.

Well, if there was a delay on being able to scope in after being forced to unscope, would you not effectively solve both the "too much" and the "too quickly" problems by firing a few bullets at him, so that he isn't able to deal any damage at all? He can't quickscope people if he can't scope under fire to begin with. Especially if the aforementioned delay is slightly longer than the rate he receives damage. It wouldn't just be about disrupting or annoying an out-of-position sniper, it would be about denying his ability to actually snipe if he was out of position or found out. How exactly else could you address damage "2much2fast" without also hurting the goal you state sniper should have? If its anything related to lower burst damage and/or over a longer term, he's no longer a pick class is he? Ignoring DDS, Allied Pyros, Healing sources ,dodging the flares, and getting sniped before the flare can land, there are still snipers that are capable of killing you, either through luck or skillful compensation, through the afterburn flinching. And how does CC do anything about being unscoped without an ability to rescope in short term? It was a minor point, but whatever. The class designed to be strong in Long range but weak in short range should, naturally, i'd assume, be weak in short range. And it's not like sniper's only option to being flanked is to killbind. He's got his unscoped primary, as well as the option to pack a defensive secondary as well as a melee. Like you said, Sniper should be aware of flankers, so anticipation is on the list of counters as well, whether that be passive (be near teammates or hazzards) or active (putting your scope where you expect the flanker to come from) anticipation. And like you imply, a sniper being flanked is a situation he normally shouldn't survive, that doesn't mean he'll automatically lose just because raw aim alone isn't enough to win the exchange anymore.

No, because then the class is just unfun and counter the base function of scoping in to kill enemies - it'd be like if the Medic's healing was interrupted if they or their patient took damage, and they had to manually restart their Medi gun. The core problem that I keep repeating isn't solved, either, unless you plan on setting a minimum cooldown for scoping back in. Flinching already exists. The problem isn't a Sniper that's scoped in and charging his damage - the problem is a Sniper that, once again, can deal at least half of their health in damage to any class in milliseconds. You aren't addressing the main issue with Sniper's DPS. I'll use my previous suggestion for this discussion - if headshots mini-crit, meaning headshots deal 75 damage on flick up to 250 damage at full charge, he could still pick all classes except the Heavy reliably, the time to kill just goes up. There's no reason why he wouldn't still be a pick class - why do you think there is? Pick Classes kill important targets. There's no required time to kill on the classes beyond Uber charging, which is more than long enough for even a roaming Medic using a syringe gun to pick other classes considering only DPS. I refer you to my previous comment about what the core issue with the Class is.

Did that even do anything besides artificially drive up the price of their unusual variants? It seemed like such a stupid idea to implement a good, what, 3 years after the hats originally released?

Your issue is not that he does too much damage, it's actually that most of the time you lack the time to respond to his presence in the same way a Spy would. When a Spy gets any kill or makes Spy-like sounds, people either whip around to face him or are overwhelmed by other players/sounds and cannot assess the instant-death threat behind them. Sniper, unlike Spy, is not countered by general awareness. Knowing a Sniper exists will tell you to avoid what you presume to be his sightline. Seeing his dot on a wall is a telltale way of knowing which direction he's in but not exactly where you should be calling out, flanking to, or suppressing with spam. You're upset that the only thing you can reasonably do in the time it takes you and the Sniper to realize that you're looking at one another is to pepper at him with futility because you aren't a Sniper yourself and you're probably not playing a class with mobility skills so you feel like a sitting duck. For Sniper to be countered by awareness, he needs the jarring effects of being shot at to be limiting, but not cumbersome or outright stupid. You have a bead on a sniper and you're maintaining direct eye contact as you pepper him with pistol shot after pistol shot? Great, he can't deal a critical headshot to you until he re-steadies his aim, this gives you agency. It overall reduces his overall damage output if he has to deal suboptimal damage under pressure. It also lets you create windows of opportunity for you or your teammates to close the gap on him and force him into a bad close-range matchup or to run away with his tail between his legs. A sniper would still be a powerful force to be reckoned with if you fail to pressure him. Sniper doesn't exactly stack up too great against the likes of the mobile classes since they have ways to close the gap on top of suppressive fire, he's very soft and lacks any tools to get out of bad situations other than his guns, but it'd give tools to classes that otherwise struggle dealing with long-range shoot man, it'd also make the shotgun a bit more of a viable pick for Heavy even if only for this 1 class matchup.

Pretty sure that's what I mean by "delay on being able to scope in after being forced to unscope" If that was unclear, my bad i guess.

Your point is somewhat true. I agree that it's a lot easier and safer for a Sniper to execute a high-damage, for lack of a better term, "movement", than Spy. I disagree that the problem is just being able to respond though - while I hate how many times people go "oh just bounce around like an idiot to not get headshot", it's true that if you use map geometry well, a Sniper isn't as much of a problem. Even periodically crouching (though I'm pretty sure that's still glitched and the actual hitboxes don't change as quickly as the actual movement) can help. I think a tracer for every round would "help", but it still wouldn't solve his core problem. Even the best movement can be reliably countered by predicting and/or tracking, due to reliable hitboxes and lack of random spread. The problem is still that in that context, even a lucky shot will still instantly kill the Scout unless he's overhealed. Scout doesn't have the benefit of no spread like the Sniper does, even at optimal distance the pistol's stead is barely predictable. Also, I've been ignoring the teammate function of my complaint mostly because yeah, the Sniper crumbles to any Spy worth his gumption. So long as you can reliably get behind enemy forces as a Spy, find the Sniper, and pick him off without retaliation, a Spy will usually beat a Sniper of equal skill level 90% of the time. My issue is more to do with just the core Class's damage and how reliably he can deal that damage. Flanking beyond a Spy isn't nearly as easy as most people here make it out to be - the Sniper has teammates too.

It changes how a sniper should play to be effective. He's still perfectly capable of being interesting just because positioning and timing become relevant factors to being a good sniper. If that's annoying for you, then that's on you. Being able to viably suppress or otherwise push away a one-shot-from-anywhere-instantly-and-completely-shut-down-movement class isn't healthier for balance?

With all this talk of piss jar man and what could be I'd like to share a few things about what his current relationship with the victim is. the average reaction time of a good player is about .2 seconds. A sniper has to first react to your presence, scope in which takes .1 seconds then wait for another .2 seconds for the sniper rifle headshot delay to wear off while simultaneously flicking to your head. Every bullet (except minigun) disrupts his aim by .2 seconds which isn't enough to move that gear up but is enough to save your ass while you get back out of sight. So assuming he's expecting you you have a minimum of 1/3 of a second to get back into cover and if you get into his blind spots you have about 1/2 of a second because his reaction time is delayed assuming they're really good. An average sniper will give you anywhere between 3/4 of a second to a full one before zeroing in and taking the shot. It takes 1/3 of a second for a good sniper to deal 150 damage at any range. No other class is that fast at taking down a single target or even groups if you account for the fact that teams naturally spread out to avoid splash damage.

"It's your problem if it's annoying" is not a good argument. The rest of the discussion just sounds like a you problem. No, because it still doesn't solve the main issue of dealing high damage so quickly. Again, the flinching is still in the game already. It doesn't remove the quickscoping dealing 150 damage. Nor would your suggestion. If anything, it'd just make it more prevalent, because why bother longscoping if you're just going to lose any charge progress from any stray bullet launched your way? If you can't understand that,

My point was that stating that it's annoying was subjective. There isn't much i can address there. Flinching does not prevent someone from dealing a 150, correct, but forcing them to unscope, with a cooldown on rescoping, would, as they physically cannot scope in while taking fire. I didn't address this previously because your previous point seemed to hinge on sniper being able to rescope instantly after unscoping, which is not a system i am suggesting. Why would you bother quickscoping if you're only going to deal a portion of the required damage to kill the enemy, but be forced to retreat once you're found out anyway? Better to bide your time by picking a deeper or safer location to sit back in and charge up, i would think. A sniper that's playing commando like now, quickscoping everything wouldne't benefit very much because the time between shots is still decently long, but for lower damage. So you're just giving the enemy more opurtunity to shoot at you and prevent you form firing another shot to begin with. If you longscope, and open up when the board favors you, you can confirm a kill better tahn you would by quickscoping. And i still ask how the Cozy Camper is relevant in this particular discussion, seeing as it adresses flinch and not unscoping, and that i'm trying to address a core issue, not an unlock issue. But if i were to spitball, i'd do away with the counter-counter mechanic that is mitigating flinch/unscoping/supression in general, and move towards sustenance mechanics like the HP regen so that the Camper is something you'd pick when you're the kind of sniper to stay away from his team/be paired with a bad team. Maybe add an ammo regen, Maybe mechanically mess with the HP regen, maybe slash sniper's base primary ammo and have the camper give some of it back, maybe mess with sniper's movement speed or jump height. idunno, something in that direction.

That sounds like a fun mechanic and definitely not something that's nothing more than a nuisance. Sniper's don't "play commando" like you suggest. Good Snipers a majority of the time play in Sniper spots, like other Snipers. Quickscoping is something a Sniper can do at any range. That's why flinching isn't nearly as effective as you think it is. It also doesn't respond to the problem of Snipers you don't anticipate, killing you in 1 second max. Quickscoping Sniper dealing so much damage isn't something that can be solved by making the Class more annoying. You are still fundamentally missing my original point. Sniper being almost defenseless against Classes that can pepper him with bullets (so Heavy pretty much) isn't going to make him more balanced. he'll still deal high damage, it's just between gaps of being useless and not even able to fulfill his core function. Let me try and remedy our differences by using an equivalent - the Spy-cicle. What you're suggesting would be if the Spy-cicle was the Spy's base knife - if he got lit on fire, his knife would be unusable. As its own weapon, it's "okay", in that it trades off inability to complete the Class's core objective, in exchange getting a safer play against another Class that usually proves to be an issue for it. As a core mechanic, the class becomes a lot less unfun, and a lot weaker without solving its original issues. What I'm saying is your suggestion is interesting as a weapon that has a trade-off. But as a core mechanic, it doesn't balance the class, just makes its weaker points more blatant and less fun.

A good Sniper ... Why are we ignoring the requirements behind landing a 150 damage quickscope headshot? Why are you equating this action to something easier than spraying someone down with a fucking flamethrower, or landing a pipe on someone moving in a predictable manner? Why are you treating this as something everyone and their mother can do? If that was the case, we'd see 100% more snipers in every server ever. We'd see 200 hour players dominating everything in their path. A good scout will dodge your rockets. A good demo will land his pipes. A good medic will stay out of sight lines. A good heavy will jump before he revs up. A good soldier will strafe while rocket jumping. Stop treating the pre-requisite to quick scoping someone in the head hitbox as something simple minded and easy to do. My years of experience playing this game says otherwise. Some reasons why you might think Sniper is easy to play, but actually has nothing to do with Sniper himself and everything to do with the victim: The average player will run in straight lines. The average player has the awareness of a blind mole rat. Maybe the good ol' hat simulator fucked up the Silhouette system yeah? The average player has the memory of a goldfish. Unless its a big scary Sentry gun, chances are the player won't think a Sniper is still in the same spot! I have no fucking clue why! (Just watch people come out of their spawn, doing the SAME EXACT THING to a T after every death. LEMMINGS! The average player is probably blasting music while they play. The average player doesn't understand the concept of choosing their targets efficiently. Deal with the guy farther away? Or the closer guy? Do I run in a straight line to this health pack? The average player has a default FOV of 54. The average player is using default viewmodel options. Big honkin' rocket launcher covering half their monitor space. The average player's reaction time isn't tuned to the 1/3rd of a second shit. They're just as likely to die to things that don't one shot them just the same! The average player doesn't give a shit. Every update we strayed further from the lighting and visual style the original game released with. Pretty visuals = worse off competitively. Bad lighting, flames bright as the sun, etc All of these are issues that effect the way a game will play out and have everything to do with the victim and not the Sniper. These apply to every class! I'd wager its different. It doesn't take much brain power at all to lob projectiles into doorways the enemy has to walk through at some point. You have 4 grenades that have relatively large hitboxes and if they happen to touch a player directly you score 100 damage. I'm willing to bet the amount of tight spaces demo can gain the advantage over players exceeds the sight lines Sniper has on most maps. Lets assume players aren't perfectly healthy from the get-go. Demo can one shot classes. I wasn't ignoring it absent minded. I skipped over it because of how absurd and overly simplified you seem to think quick-scoping to be. After nearly 2 thousand hours on Sniper, I find it easier to dispatch people with pipe spam, sticky spam, the flamethrower, the scorch shot, Force-a-Nature, the Huntsman, etc... Because they don't require effort on my part. I can lose all focus on the game and immerse myself in music or a conversation over Discord with friends and still have peace of mind that my mindless spam will kill people, and effectively too. Why? Because aiming the projectile is half the job. Your victim does the other half. I can listen to music and have conversations while playing Sniper. Just not to the degree of absent mindedness in-game that I can with other classes. See #3 on the list above. 12 people, or 9, or 6! And you can't make assumptions based off the kill feed and the location of your teammates? Its a team based shooter right? If something happens to a teammate you should know about it... Right? You can counter a Sniper by warning your teammates. I've had this happen PLENTY of times. I'm watching a sight line, get a kill, see the teammate behind him instantly 180 and escape. Next thing to peak that sight line? A SNIPER! Or perhaps a buffed heavy! It is not guaranteed that the Sniper will land the head shot on a target that walks into the sight line! More often than not, Sniper gets these easy 150 headshots because people let it happen. Crouch. Jump. Avoid walking in a straight line. Pay attention to your surroundings. Don't underestimate your opponent. I've mentioned before the people I've faced and the matches I've played in. I've played against Max!, Spaceghost, and plenty of other skilled snipers. Which is why I make the claim that despite the existence of these skilled Snipers, this issue isn't plaguing the game like so many people on this forum make it out to be. And beyond that, there are players just as good as these snipers on other classes and create this scenario in which you might think the class they're using is too strong, but its just their technical prowess and knowledge that pins you down. Look at b4nny when he streams himself in a Valve pub with a Kritz medic up his ass. Nursey nonetheless! What does he do to a server? He repeatedly wipes teams with the kritz stickies. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=808017462 I've not seen anyone accomplish this as Sniper, even with a medic up their ass all game. Maybe its been done, but I've not heard about it, nor have I ever once witnessed it in-game over the 11 years I've been playing. This idea that Sniper's damage output is unrivaled is a joke. It requires focus and the ability to land shots with a hitscan based weapon. In order for that bullet to hit you need dead on accuracy. Not anything like prediction or splash. Are you facing god-like snipers on a daily basis? What server are you playing on? Are you in the casual match maker? Can I trade places with you?

Mean, reading (mostly) all of the 90 or so post is a complete thrill. You have people that provide an idea or try to debate the damage of the revolver, then going full-mathematician and providing precise numbers, video evidence, justified experiences and the debate keeps going. You don't see this level of dedication and analysis in most games.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/156906335448700632/33AD9AC8C6FC5F74D5C9CD860C61ADADEAD11BCA/ https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/437237610884308287/AE31DDF8399CDFDD9BC4BBDC5727BB274D6C8CF0/ Community Server examples: 13 doms on demo, 13 doms on Soldier.

Citing horribly imbalanced teams on Dustbowl as a valid data point is akin to considering the Weekly World News to be the paper of record.

The point he was getting at is that Sniper is unlikely to be treated as unstoppable because he fundamentally cannot survive if he gets pressured harshly. Even with a medic up his ass he has at most 185 health and a gun that cannot efficiently deal with multiple threats encroaching on him. Sniper is not a rampant powerhouse like Demoman, Soldier, or Heavy can be to push forward and take territory, he's a Sniper, and his domain is entirely up to the rest of the server to dictate what is and isn't safe for him to peek.

Um, the first screenshot I provided has a team balance IN FAVOR of the team getting dominated. But... This will always somehow be an excuse to write off what took place in that particular match. "Oh the teams were imbalanced", "they must of been a team of noobs!" This doesn't change a single thing.

Dustbowl is a series of choke points with precious few sniper sight lines. Of course it favors a pocketed demo over a solo sniper. It's a launch map and shows its ages at every turn. It's nothing like, say, every payload map in the game (a mode where Sniper dominates hugely.)

You're missing the point. The way Sniper cannot possibly win is if you gang up on him, he's functionally incapable of dealing with more than 1 person at a time, and this gets compounded if those persons are also overhealed so he can't even 1-shot them. Contrast with the heavily-combat focused classes who are built for sustained damage.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1610236241 Don't forget about the Turbine example I posted earlier.

Turbine is a giant box that is historically full of the lowest common denominator of TF2 players. People who are confused by objects more complex than a rectangle. It's got simple geometry by the standards of Doom. The 1993 version. It's medium sized and loaded with surfaces for splash damage. Stomping on it as a krtiz pocketed explosive class is like opening fire into a cardboard box full of retarded puppies with an Uzi and then professing oneself to be MLG pro. Ironically, that screenshot illustrates one thing quite strongly: the lack of a decent sniper on the opposing team. Krtiz medics are incredibly vulnerable, far more so than ones carrying any other medi gun. I'm trash at sniper and even I can put the kibosh to a kritz attack with a full charge bodyshot. You have cited two of the worst official maps in all of TF2. I await your follow treatise on why Sniper is UP with a PoV from cp_junction.

I recently got back into TF2 and oh boy, after Overwatch, it is very comforting to get back to an actually good game. Crossbow bolts flying halfway across the map will never grow old to me; the mere principle of being dominated by a Medic sends people's salt levels through the roof.

any soldier can look in your general direction and deal 60-90.

At this point I don't think it matters what image I post and what map it displays. You'd claim some way or another that the map is full of the lowest common denominator of TF2 players, the teams were beyond imbalanced, or the map itself favors the class. Can we address the real purpose behind these images? Can we stop pretending the text that went along with the images isn't there? It's pretty convenient to ignore the entire argument and derail the conversation to de-legitimizing a screenshot for the n'th reason that you preconceived.

It is though. It's easy to do. You mouse over somebody's head hitbox, and press m1. It's not mechanically complex - all it takes is being accurate. One shot, one kill. Your years of experience don't mean anything compared to the cold hard facts that a Sniper that is accurate can headshot a Scout, Engineer, Medic, Spy, or another Sniper, and instantly kill them, with one shot. It isn't. There's no setup nor is there a punchline. Since when has playing for 11 years been an arugment? It wasn't whenever I weighed in my opinion about Heavy being weak and needing balance, even though I have 5,000 hours, including ~100 of competitive Heavy play, under my belt. It was dismissed. I don't see why I can't dismiss your comment either. You seem almost ridiculously set in your ways. You don't bring up arguments as to why I might be wrong. You're bringing in random factoids and screenshots of B4nny popping off in a random server as a Class unrelated to Sniper. Reel your emotions in before arguments like this. Do you have an actual argument as to why a Sniper dealing 150 damage on a headshot in .05 milliseconds isn't imbalanced? We aren't? I explicitly said that yes map geometry does matter, and using it effectively can prevent Sniper deaths. But other than map geometry blocking his view, a Sniper can still deal 150+ damage if he hits your head hitbox while scoped in. The only way to impair that without hiding behind geometry is Uber or bullet resistance via Vaccinator. If he's alive, he can do that instantly. Jump as a Scout, he can follow your downward trajectory. Rocket jump as a Soldier, he can follow your trajectory. Move around like a crazy idiot as Pyro, he can still headshot you. A good Scout has to be close range to do maximum damage. A good Scout can't meatshot you from any distance he pleases. A good Scout has to close the gap and has less health than the Sniper. A good Demo is defenseless up close or can seriously himself. A god Demo is still slow and susceptible to a Spy, a Pyro, or a hitscan class. A good Demo, as you highlighted, can still carry pubs anyway, so good job defeating your own argument to show off B4nny's screenshot. A good Medic isn’t even related to damage in this situation so why bring it up? A good Heavy will die to literally any skill level Sniper if they don't consciously hide from them. Ask myself or Exor. Same with Spies - a good Heavy that's revved up pretty much can't fight against a Spy without rotating like a beyblade every 3 seconds. “Strafe while rocket jumping”? What does this have to do with Sniper doing lots of damage very fast? What does any of this have to do with Sniper doing 150 damage on a flick headshot? I can do some rollouts on maps like Swiftwater and Process as Soldier, does that mean I'm qualified to talk about Soldier balance? Reel your emotions in before arguments like this. Do you have an actual argument as to why a Sniper dealing 150 damage on a headshot in .05 milliseconds isn't imbalanced? Do you have an argument as to why my perception of a Class that can deal 150 damage, enough to kill 6 of 9 classes in the game, off of a headshot, is unbalanced, is wrong? You seem almost ridiculously set in your ways. You don't bring up arguments as to why I might be wrong. You're bringing in random factoids and screenshots of B4nny popping off in a random server as a Class unrelated to Sniper. I said, and I quote: Before you reply once again with more screenshots of B4nny, a professional player and one of the most skilled players in the game currently, getting a bunch of kills in a random serveras another Class, or with some argument that normal players are idiots, passively implying that because I can't "dodge a Sniper" or consider it a problem, I'm a casual scrub low-tier with a brain less than that of a goldfish, consider the following: No, I'm not just acting like a brick wall. Other people have replied with actual interesting counter-points, and I've conceded them. Mystic Llama and Psychopath both argued more in about 100 words than you did in 5 screenshots and a short essay. This isn't about Snipers being DM gods. This isn't about Sniper being the ez-est class in the game. This isn't about it being super easy to carry pubs as a Sniper. This is about a balance problem I specifically observe - that Sniper deals too much damage on a flick headshot for the game to be balanced in a healthy manner. He can instantly kill 6 out of 9 classes, at any range, as long as he is accurate. This is about the class being so powerful that Highlander is completely centered around it. Bring up all the pub map arguments you want, bring up all the arguments about 6s not featuring Snipers you want, bring up all the skill factors that make you a pro player you want. It's all unrelated to my original point. So, one last time. A good Sniper literally has to flick to your head while scoped in and will do 150 damage immediately.

And here I am reading a post where you've typed the same point with no further reasoning than "its easy." Are you serious?

I'm dead serious. Are you going to actually try to make an argument or just post more screenshots and exaggerated comments about player skill in pubs? Choose your words wisely. I'm not here to prove that my point is more right than yours. II'm not here to prove I have a bigger E-Penis than you. I'm not here to brag about how great I am as a certain Class or as a general TF2 player. I made a statement: Sniper does 150 damage via a quickscope headshot. That's too much, in my opinion. Anything else or are you just going to continue this pointless back and forth?

The tea-pot calling the kettle black. Take a step back and re-read the other 90% of my posts that you've ignored. There's more to it than the screenshots I used to provide contextual examples that back up my claims you've not said a single word about.