TF2 General Chat & Speculation Station V15 - Buff Pyro plz - Games

Don't know where you got the idea that the context any of us are referring to, where you don't know the precise location of the enemy Sniper, or even that there is one, and you're distracted with attempting to complete objectives, involves 1v1 in any way whatsoever

You know, the Chemistry Set concept was really neat and I wish they'd bring it back. They could do so much with it, like making Strangifier Chemistry Sets drop for items that cannot be obtained in Strange-quality yet (i.e. the normal Powerup Canteen, cosmetics without workshop pages [all Grordbort cosmetics, the original hats, etc.]).

clearly what TF2 needs is a new wave of vintages

clearly what TF2 needs is a new wave of vintages substantial update. FTFY.

Please re-read the rest of that post, not just the part you quoted. The prime range of the 7 other combat classes is mid/close. So putting each class in their prime range would lead to a similar distance away for every class but sniper. But please, explain to me how each class is unrivaled in its prime range, when 7 of those prime ranges are the same.

Disable weapon drops, make every existing weapon vintage and make every unique stat weapon stock There, I fixed metal inflation :v

And literally every single Class is hard-countered outside of their prime-range to the point where living is the favorable outcome. Demo in short-range, Demo in mid-range vs. Pyro of equal skill level, Heavy in long-range vs Sniper, Heavy in short-range vs. Spy or Scout, Soldier vs. Pyro mid range, Soldier vs. Scout short range, Scout vs Engineer any range, Engineer vs. Spy any range, Engineer vs. Demo any range, Medic vs. anything any range when alone, Spy vs. Pyro any range, Spy vs. any class mid-long range (except maybe Scout if his shots are accurate). Sniper's strength is long-range, but as long as he doesn't get spammed out and have to move, mid-range he's just as strong, and his only hard-counter close-range is Spy, which can be fundamentally countered by using Razorback and either learning to flick headshot in close-range, instantly killing literally any Spy, or just using bodyshots. Scout is also a hard-counter I suppose, but he has the task of getting into the Sniper's close range without teammates playing a part, unlike most other range matchups which are almost always plausible in any given round.

I mean an aspect which is highly debated here is how sniper is technically overpowered due to the fact that he can flick your ass up-close and instantly kill light classes/deal heavy damage to any other one at a split second - saying that specific scenario doesnt take more skill than spammin your average sticky down a hallway and dealing 200 damage isnt exactly farfetched

If anything the argument about massive hitboxes would better apply to a massive projectile flying at a massive hitbox than some lazer pointer rifle round. Predicting where to fire a projectile in anticipation of a player's movement is just the same as trying to flick on someone who can at any moment in time let go of their movement keys, press crouch or the jump key, get pushed by damage/airblast, rotate their head by an offset axis by moving their mouse, etc.... I can't tell you how many times I've missed a player because they get stuck on a rock, or fail to walk through a door way, or quite literally let go of the w key for some unexplained reason. After n something posts I've seen the same claim that "Sniper is easy to play", "Headshots are easy to do!", without a single justification and/or evidence to show such that even the most average of Joes can join a server and absolutely dominate everything in their path. Why is it that most every team starts to complain when they have too many Snipers? Its just the same with Spy. If Sniper has some kinda holy infinite range, including effectiveness at point blank, why isn't everyone just picking sniper? If the class was truly as easy and godly effective as these posts make it out to be, we'd be seeing more and more Snipers. Kinda like the Pyro spam when Inferno was released!

You can miss with hitscan and that shot is a guaranteed miss. You can miss with a projectile, but that miss isn't a guaranteed miss. Projectiles are all about "missing" your target, with the added bonus that splash can help you out. Okay, and nowhere in my "average joe" did I specify he had to be a brand new, first time fps player that installed TF2 just a few minutes ago. I used the word average to specify a broad range of players. Maybe the player is new to TF2, but has been playing FPS titles for years? Maybe they've played TF2 casually for several years but never really intended to elevate themselves to a competitive experience, perhaps the average Joe is you and I? I'm not so daft to think jose.gonzoles.2007 is capable of 20-0'ing b4nny in MGE. But I do think its absurd to suggest that someone with, for example: 1000+ hours exclusively on any particular class aside from Sniper, is then capable of "easily headshotting people." Every competitive player will tell you the same thing: If you want to get good at a class, play all of the classes.

So deer.... The reason why everyone doesnt pick sniper for being the overpowered god you think we're describing him as, is that it is largely a defensive/pickoff class that loses you the round when overplayed due to a lack of presence, speed and capturing sustainability. Unfortunately, those are downsides that don't compensate for his upside, and are more a result of his class role and design rather than how effective he is at his one, specific and currently poorly countered job. Everyone knows that. From the casual pubbers to you, so asking that is clearly rhetorical.... Except when your pub team has 5 edgy sniper mains who never switch class, and get rolled because they're bad. Numbers do compensate for skill somewhat, and if you have a 2-3 good snipers (you've played with bo4r and minty before in team stacks haven't you?) then life becomes a living hell for the enemy team, empowering even a bad own team to compete a lot more effectively because all the good players on the enemy team are being focused down for free.

overplayed due to a lack of presence, speed and capturing sustainability downsides that don't compensate for his upside It feels like you're caught in a logic loop that just repeatedly contradicts the prior statement. You have, in the past mentioned how strong and capable a Sniper is at clearing a point in a 5cp scenario, but just now you've contradicted this by claiming these particular downsides do in fact exist and quite clearly reduce Sniper's effectiveness to clear a point. Sniper is op because he has insane range, but he isn't op because he has no movement or field presence. There isn't a both. Everyone knows that. From the casual pubbers to you, so asking that is clearly rhetorical.... Can you explain this common sense knowledge to a daft person like me? I'd have thought that after 14+ years of playing video games, I'd have figured it all out by now but maybe that is not the case. I'm certain I haven't read an explanation yet.

no no you see, you literally click on people's heads. anything in between is superfluos because you click on people's heads AND THERE IS NOTHIGN YOU CAN DO BECAUSE ANYONE CAN CLICK ON YOUR HEAD. there, sniper's gameplay is broken riot please ban sniper make tf2 great again than you.

Sniper isn't that overpowered as generally most snipers can score about 1 headshot in 4 attempts, its the skill/reward ratio that's fucked because its a fucking sniper. most snipers are dead meat once you get within shotgun range but sniper mains can just do pointblank headshots out of muscle memory rather than actually trying to aim. Its one of those things that isn't really a problem except in special cases and we're not gonna shove the nerf hammer up a new zealander's ass just for those people who played sniper during their entire childhood

Somehow I missed this... Can you tell me what map has a sight line from one spawn to the other and can you then justify the map is balanced and designed well? That isn't a problem with Sniper. It's a problem with the map. But for the sake of hopping on the exaggeration bandwagon... Yeah, I'd hate to get domed from a class that is in an unreachable spot too!

Maybe tf2 is better off dead if this is the best the community has to offr in terms of discussion. Thogh the ridiculous hyperbole makes sense considering how many people spouted "TF2 IS DEAD" whenever a new pc shooter came out.

This discussion doesn't fit my wants and needs and therefore its useless to me, join me in wishing this were a dead game! I concede. I've lost. You won! I never got a reply from you, and I will never expect to get one. Not with how you treat discussions, and now evidently with how you view the current one and how it somehow comprises of the entire community...?

What the fuck else is there to talk about, the last(?) comic is late by years, no peep from the TF2 team about the heavy update, we went a Halloween and Christmas without new content NOT EVEN A COMIC. we had our laugh at Artifact, and now we're just stewing around wondering what could of been if Valve didn't went mad with greed.

I think one of the things that makes people angry about sniper is that in general sightlines have become WAY bigger as the games gone on. back in the day, pretty much the biggest sightline that existed was about 2500 and it was pretty much the hard limit. you'd see 2fort at about 2300 hmu and gpt b had a 2500hmu sightline from the top to the rock, and another 2000 going between the crack of the house and the cliff, looking into short. gpit was great because you'd have these sightlines but if you looked at rock you'd be getting bombed from the top of house or someone would just run in through C and kill you in like 2010 we had thunder mountain and upward, both of which have sightlines of 2500 pretty much everywhere and some extending into the 3000s territory. pretty much most payload maps contain sightlines this big, presumably to curb the effect that soldiers and demos had on the game since 07/10 was pretty much them as the relevant classes then everyone else. Upward has a 3000hmu sightline where u can sit in spawn. you've got lakeside, mountainlab, hightower is probably one of the worst offenders. but by the time all these came out I already had adapted my movement to a level which most non competitive players never reach. I'm not trying to say that in an elitist way, but most players in general have HORRIBLE movement, with long strafes and very poor air mobility. I had absolutely dreadful movement and didn't even realise it until someone made a video with a good couple of thousand views of me getting sniped repeatedly in a tf2lobby. That was almost 10 years ago and sometimes I still look back and it's a good reminder that in 2000 hours, maining scout, I had learned absolutely nothing in terms of moving. Most players never do. The result has essentially been that scout and sniper have both received mega buffs over the years, despite never being buffed themselves, just because of the change in maps. I think it may be worth thinking about, if you're a super experienced player, did you grow up on maps that were even good for sniper? If you didn't, you don't have the same perspective because you'll never again have average movement and be playing on these super open maps. You can never relive that and you'll never know what it is actually like for an average player in the current game climate

Why are you still replying to me?

I'm not berating you, I'm berating the god awful shit you say. Don't make this about who is talking about who. Keep this about what is being discussed.

Okay. Let me break this down barney style for you since you have seem to have taken a number of my points together and distilled your own meaning from them: Aside from medic, spy, and defensive hold engineer, all the other classes fight on the front lines. This is done at mid-close range and control the map objective with their player models being physically near it. This comprises the bulk of tf2's gameplay. The classes that do this all have exploitable downsides which, make counteracting their particular brand of mayhem a fun and interesting deathmatch challenge as you fight them. Except sniper. Sniper's downsides are mainly that he can't do this aforementioned job that the other classes very well. Unlike the other classes. His downsides don't affect his ability to do his job, and with enough player skill, they can be largely erased. With any other class, you still have to contend with the limitations your class, even if you are a DM god or experienced player. This makes fights fairer, and reasonably able to be won in a more diverse number of circumstances. Sniper on the other hand, lacks reasonable counterplay when performing his job from anyone other than himself. Just because something isn't almighty and singlehandedly game-winning doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked at in terms of rebalancing. Having sniper's specific, yet uninteresting and ill-fitting influence be rethought isn't the end of the class or those who play it. Especially considering its effect on game speed and aggression for both teams. Going back to you quoting my previous posts- many of them have said notto touch sniper at all, but instead give other classes more counterplay tools. What is the big issue with that?

Yeah, it was like drinking alcohol! I had a hard time understanding the meaning in that one sentence, so I broke out down piece by piece to extract the meaning as it was typed. None of my extrapolations were forged from misunderstandings or for the sake of proving an argument through malevolence. You continue to provide contradictions: Aside from medic, spy, and defensive hold engineer his downsides don't affect his ability to do his job The exact opposite exists in this game as well: Pyro v Pyro. Why does this matter? It doesn't actually. A lot like how Sniper can hard counter himself. So regardless of whether or not Sniper hardcounters himself, the claim that nothing else is effective enough to counter Sniper is unsubstantiated and quite frankly said with inexperience. Just because the weapon your class holds does not contain somewhere in the list of benefits and drawbacks regarding its effectiveness against a Sniper, you are not left completely defenseless to the degree you are suggesting. https://puu.sh/CFmxv/77adfc9ace.png Just like Sniper can exploit your positioning, you can exploit his. You have stated yourself that Sniper's lack of mobility is a downside, but then promptly write it off as some insignificant factor so as to inappropriately justify your position on the matter.

'cept you explicitly responded to me, Einstein. Even simple questions like "why are you still responding to me" you do mental gymnastics around. My biggest tip would be to just stop. The "god awful shit" i say and do literally amounted to me saying "I think sniper deals too much damage" and then pointing out you're getting too emotionally invested in such a topic.

It really is convenient to ignore everything but the perceived pain in your side isn't it... Should I stick to leaving ratings on your posts so I exert minimal efforts to share my opinion with you, and the others who visit this forum? Stop making this personal when it was never meant to be in the first place. You are seeing things you want to see through your own paranoia. Once again, the world does not revolve around you.

every time facepunch argues about sniper the update gets delayed by another week

Come on guys! Let's argue about a different class for once! Like Soldier. Fuck that guy.

Solider is a really well balanced class. He's the most popular class in the game for a very good reason. His banners are kind of OP in pubs, particularly community servers with 32 players. He's still got some items that are problematic in comp. All of this is small potatoes compared to the one massive issue he has THE BISON REQUIRES A BUFF.

bring my son the bison back i miss him so

They brought the bison back, but not in its original form. Flamethrower particles have the Bison effect now.