TF2 General Chat & Speculation Station V17 - Ms. Pauling Won't Stop Calling Me - Games

There's also this for TF2:C https://youtu.be/pkfwCYJdgU0

I think if they did that. I'd be the Cloak n' Dagger Spy that just cloaks all day from start to finish and that'd be it... Have fun trying to find the invisible spy that does absolutely nothing till that circle is the size of a small box lol.

Inversely, try to have fun doing that. The only time I have fun as CnD Spy is when I'm annoying enemy Engineers by sitting on top of their shit and spamming voicelines.

those fists scare me. is it even "battle royale" when the map can't hold more than 3 players?

I dunno, maybe it's a change in times and terms are different. I remember playing an online RPG were lobbies oculd hold like 4 players and people were still calling it a MMORPG... Apparently 4 players is considered "massive" lol...

It's a nightmare from a logistics, gameplay and programming perspective. People don't already like stock Arena very much - imagine having to sit for not 30 seconds or 2 minutes, but for up to 5 - 10 minutes on a map extensive enough to contain 32 players (that's if we're ambicious) just to play another round - players can't just leave and click a matchmaking button either (if they could, the community/server provider would have to provide multiple servers for this to work, which costs a bit of money, would need a decent enough-sized playerbase, and also would have to program a matchmaking service through a website for this to work). If you want to have neutral-colored classes, you'll have to use custom models and textures, and people dislike downloading custom content, moreso if it takes a long time. It's also likely not the only custom content they'll have to download. Also, TF2 enforces teams down to a T, so you cannot have a proper free for all. Enabling friendly fire results in projectiles sometimes not caring at all about you hitting a teammate (there's actually a plugin that fixes this pretty nicely aside from minor valve bugs, though). If you want to have multiple 2/3/4-player teams, you'll need neutral-colored class models that can be painted through proxy (like hats) and use programming hacks to get them to paint nicely without the stank that using the "color" entity input would have (aka just painting all of the model), then enforce different checks between teams (winning conditions, etc). Having small teams instead of a free-for-all would be much better for TF2's "team" approach, though. Gameplay-wise, you likely should have every class start with Melee only (no watches or PDAs either) and have them pick up weapons from the ground. This starts getting tricky, though: should classes only be able to pickup their class's weapons? This means that they could potentially find loot that is 100% useless for them, as the weapons they could find could be for other classes which they can't equip. Should they be able to pick other classes' weapons and completely forgo the point of classes at all, with Soldiers having Sniper Rifles and Scouts having Medi Guns and their Scattergun? Ah yes, and unless you employ some extra hacks, weapons that are given outside of spawing with them (their initialization) will usually be invisible, so players won't be able to tell what you're holding. Then you also have to handle pickup randomization, the play area, player downs and revivals (if any at all!), equipment (again, if any), and get someone to make a decent-enough map to play, alongside some stuff I probably haven't accounted for. Don't even think of making a minimap (it would be kind of possible if RT anything in TF2 worked, though). The BR custom mode that Petroklos posted looks incredibly half-baked because it doesn't stop to consider what would be fun and possible and just tries to make something that tries to ride a fad that will die in 2 years. We'll likely not see a good custom BR gamemode until people find out all of these nuances and try to make it work. On the topic of TF2C: it would be a vastly better base for a BR mode, because there's a built-in Deathmatch mode as a base, the Mercenary class can hold any weapon (the strange hands are due to bonemerging to other classes's), and I think you can simply color the models without any programming hacks involved. Too bad it's a rather unpopular mod, though.

I think it's worth understanding what they consider that "certain range" to be. My gut is that they set it at either mid-range or max-range as far as damage falloff calculations are concerned. I can understand having no jarring effect at extreme ranges since the random spread of bullets winds up making it purely spray and pray and not at the behest of the Heavy at a technical level. However, at the very minimum, if my pitch of having a fully-accurate bullet were to be implemented, if nothing else that bullet specifically should at the very least be able to ignore that range limitation since it is very much on the part of the Heavy to be cognizant of hitting things with it. I can see a case for keeping that specific non-jarring interaction, but with 11+ years of experience I think it's high time that Heavy have a way to thoughtfully engage with a Sniper in a way that is more meaningful than running away and hoping someone else takes care of it. Plus this of course depends on my other pitch for Sniper to have to resteady his aim after being jarred (not a large length of time, but enough to be meaningful -- the only numeric example we have to start with is the scope-in delay so we can start from 0.2 seconds and evaluate upward or downward from there; whether that time is too long or whether that timeframe would do better with minicrits only to compensate for hitting the head still is entirely up to speculation and I'd be dishonest to say I have the answer here). None of my pitches necessarily fix Heavy's issues with the other core combat classes. But taken as a whole it allows him better-damage consistency at mid+ ranges to reward good tracking, allows him (and everyone else, really) thoughtful counterplay to approach or get to cover from snipers, makes his shotguns less useless by allowing him to deploy them in a meaningful window of time to help him break off of combat commitments (and indirectly buffs Brass Beast and Natascha due to their heavy commitment to spinning being less cumbersome, it also allows him to unspin quickly enough to jump away from hazards while still being able to deal damage with mobility) Heavy still can't pursue enemies who have retreated behind cover, he's still big and lumbering so he still has his issues with people edging around corners or catching him out of position, his healthpool -- while significant -- still only lets him last through 3 well-placed shots. These issues are a lot more nuanced to evaluate, but little nudges here and there in a positive direction might push him into a position where he's strong enough but not too strong. Also as far as raw numbers go the L&W nerf still needs to go but that's a discussion for another time.

https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/132767/5f96f044-9acc-4b2c-bb69-8cdafdac4588/image.png

I don't think the Team Colors would be an issue. Just have you and your allies be RED/BLU depending on your choice, and every enemy be the other. For the Weapons I'd just make some tfbr_weapon_primary/secondary/melee/pda entities, which would spawn as generic Weapon icons (use the Crafting Tokens) and when picked up would grant a random Primary/Secondary/Melee of the Class you're playing as. On death, drop a crate like in Apex (use the Special Delivery Intelligence) which restores the Random Weapons to tfbr_weapon_type entities, becoming a random weapon of the responding type for the responding class who picked it up. For a Map, just use tc_hydro, but all of it at once. Scale it up if you have to. Every time the "circle" decreases, just remove one of Hydro's sections, down to one picked in random. And as for other pickups, I actually love how CS:GO does it, where you pick up money and use them to buy stuff. We've got the money models and shop UI from MvM, you can even repurpose MvM Upgrades if you wanna be super lazy about it.

tf2 is not a game that was built around a battle royale playstyle and it doesnt need a new gamemode that introduces an entire rework of the base gameplay just because it's the big new thing right now

steamchat absolute fubar for everyone else too?

SourceMod cannot add more into the base game, you can't create new entities since that'd require to have the game recompiled outright, and anything MvM outside of MvM is pretty much difficult if not nigh-impossible to make it work. However, you can make entities (prop_dynamics, for the sake of simplicity) that work like you suggested.

you would be absolutely shocked how many people actually do this though seriously back when people actually played arena (this did happen on release, I was part of an arena community before I was into 6s) you'd always see people on playing CnD spy, always last alive and always the other team would just start capping the point, at which point they'd always go on an omega cope, whinging and and crying about it. You know the classic OMG CAPPING NOOBS you still see in VSH, that still happened back then. We actually had to put rules in place in for people to stop, because sometimes the last 2 players would both be CnD spies and the game lasted ages. I will never understand it either, but make no mistake, there are genuine players who appear to have fun with this ? PS. rate lucky if ur one of the rare ARENA SQUAD members (rare as a 4 leaf clover do u get it (haha im very funny))

reminds me of this gem

I mean, there's a _lot_ of hacks you can do. For example, I made a Repair Node plugin that just hijacked a dispenser entity, changed its models, handled logic, etc. You can do a lot if you're willing to write a lot of code in the world's shittiest language, Pawn.

Back to the heavy discussion, the only reason I use the shotgun is because it's the only thing that heavy has that can flinch Snipers at range, and it's helpful if I take the Brass Beast, which is my go to "fuck Heavy/Medic pairs" weapon. Maybe change Heavy's stock shotgun so it fires slugs? Since the only real reason to take it is if you run out of ammo (which is rarely a problem and nerfing Heavy to change that is dumb), or to hurt classes at ranges that the minigun is ineffective, slugs would increase his range and skill floor, since you'd have to be able to aim to land damage at all. Since it's a stock weapon a huge change would require a new model to differentiate it from other weapons, and this would be the first time a class would have a stock weapon changed, but I'd argue it'd be worth it.

You're absolutely right, I should clarify that what I meant by "adding into the base game" was that you cannot add or create with SM what Source can't do already in a sense (which funnily enough makes it incapable of doing basic stuff newer engines can do). You can make a frog prop that gives you uber and Robin's Valve Rocket Launcher if you touch it or shoot it, but that's because that's already possible in the game in some way, yet you can't make it give you the HL2 crossbow because that doesn't exist in TF2's code (maybe you could make a replica, or something that's darn close, but you cannot "port" the entity with SourceMod).

I wouldn't change the Shotgun, but giving him a new single-pellet super-fast-projectile Shotgun would be fun. And a Primary which compliments Fat Scout would be nice too.

Oh you can port entities across games, if you're mad person like pRed https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=87500 Granted you have to correct a few things for viewmodel & fire. But for other things like hl2 zombies, a quick copy paste and you're done. The real hard limits of SE are the 2048 networked edicts, and the 32 players limitation, that would prevent 100 players BR game. (Although you could work something out with multiple servers.), and any client hud or others limitation. But anything that lives on the scrds, you can bend the server's will to yours once you know how to do it. Also yes @Geel Pawn is annoying but that's a payoff that must be made if you want safe env, with error log lines ect. However nothing prevents you from going crazy and make a sourcemod extension in C++ or go directly with a metamod plugin or even better (/s) a valve plugin.

I mean sure but we've known how to do sandboxed scripting languages for a long time and we can do a lot better than Pawn.

I'm taking a 99% shot at this and guess this was when Deathmatch and TF2C were still part of the same mod, but... this BR thing has a high chance of being an abandoned project. Both because TF2C and Deathmatch split, and, well... nobody really knows what DM is being developed like. And going by what I found in the TF2C Discord (yeah, they have it linked right in their wiki page) https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/107118/ff18356a-dcb2-4ba9-9f29-db8ebb66f2d8/image.png Yeah, it looks like a no (Drudly is the Lead Developer of TF2C), since this was posted nine months after that video.

So guys, can anyone explain why people suddenly began to use L'Etranger more often? Literally every spy I see uses this weapon now. Is it only because of cloak-related attributes?

i use it on my dead ringer loadout to recharge cloak faster. Sometimes on my Cloak and Dagger to extend the cloak time too. It has good utility, and with the Dead Ringer nerf from jungle inferno, it has a great use now.

Pub spies are slowly realizing how valuable cloak time is now that Dead Ringer training-wheels isn't nearly as effective as it used to be and there's no real reason to equip Ambassador anymore.

nah, pub spies still use the amby and give zero fucks about it because they can still roll a random headshot and get the job done.

I used to love playing arena but I could never get over, or even understand, the non-cap rule. It was omnipresent, and very strictly enforced. Even the waiting players would rather wait for the last remaining player to find that last remaining cloak and dagger spy than for someone to cap (which often resulted in a ban/kick). One of the best part of Overwatch is that the 3-3 and 6-6 arena modes there do not have any no-cap rules placed by the commuinty.

i hate it how in panda's freak fortress the and in most other saxton hale mods the point is either locked or you get punished for asking people to cap or getting ass blasted when capping the point yourself,i know i got perma muted on a server where i was asking people to cap so they dont waste time chasing that scout around the whole map in granary.

What actually happened with TF2C?

Instead of weapons it could be tokens. Soldier picks up primary token and get his rocket launcher, a sniper kills him and takes the primary token, giving sniper his sniper rifle. Or maybe all classes can pick up any weapon, but only the class its meant for can use it to its full ability. Other items you get could e MvM upgrades. It's most likely never going to happen, but its fun to think about and I'm sure it would be fun to play. No BR game has gunplay as good as Team Fortress. No BR game has proper classes either I was thinking 30 players. 10 teams of 3 like apex legends. Or if valve removed the player cap you could have 21 teams of 3 players

apparently thermal thruster takes no skill but making your watch 50% more effective by literally doing nothing is acceptable.