Super Smash Bros. General v26 - 🃏 THE SHOW'S OVER 🃏 - Games

I can understand people throwing Corrin under the bus because nobody likes Corrin and despite transforming into a dragon and having a transforming chainsword their moveset and animations is really bland, but people who throw Shulk, the guy with a giant lightsabre that he swings like a baseball bat, or Robin who has noticeably clumsier animations and uses the sword for none of their specials, get thrown in the samey swordfighter bin.

Mario, Sonic, K. Rool, and Snake all punch twice and kick once for their basic combo. That means they are all the same and there is no difference between whatsoever.

There is a LOT of "well it's okay if it's MY anime sword boy!", just look at Joker and more topically Chrono. The moment people actually like a character or the series they're from, people suddenly start pulling out dozens of reasons why this character isn't just another sword character. Isaac would barely use his sword anyway, he's a spellcaster like Robin! Chrono has a dozen neato abilities and would totally be nothing like Erdrick despite both being Toriyama JRPG sword guys, don't you dare even consider comparing the two! And so on. Nobody says "actually chrono's a bit boring, we should put robo or lucca or even frog in over him" because the moment you have a personal attachment to the series, suddenly objectivity goes out the window. RPGs suffer from protagonist syndrome. Heroes use swords, they're usually medium-size all-rounders, and the diverse designs are given to the party members. They usually aren't as colourful or wacky as a 3D platforming anthropomorphic animal mascot, but it's stupid to throw a series and its moveset potential under the bus just because you see a human with a sword and there are too many gosh darn Fire Emblem characters in the game.

Man, there are too many sword characters in the game. Also please add Dante, Chrono, Sora, Travis Touchdown, 2B...

If you want to argue based on semantics, sure: I am not interested in yet another character that has a sword as his primary weapon and has massive disjointed attacks. In a similar way, I do not wish for another zoner.

I do, those are all still generic and based on one-handed broadsword swings when there are literally dozens of swordfighting styles. We literally have Shulk who swings a weapon made of light as if it's a one-handed, heavy broadsword and Corrin who has a sword that is a chainsaw and doesn't even use it as a multi-hitting weapon outside of a smash charging gimmick. Pit isn't using swords, he's wielding machetes: https://www.garrettwade.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/730x/0dc2d03fe217f8c83829496872af24a0/0/4/04d0124.jpg For all the reprimanding you've been doing about how people aren't seeing differences, I don't see you once bringing up the lack of fencers, kendo masters, kenjutsu masters or sword design variety, period. Play Soul Calibur, The Last Blade 2, Samurai Shodown (II, V or the reboot coming out soon) or UNIST and then tell me Smash that has a lot of variety with swordsmanship. In UNIST, Orie, Hyde, Wagner and Yuzuriha alone have more variety than Smash does with swordsmen, and it was developed by a bunch of doujin artists while being nearly broke. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D-LA_fmfsE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPKlFg065Z8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JomFblDi4Qk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypz4Cxu-cuE I'd even say that there wouldn't be complaints anywhere near what we get about how many swordsmen there are in Smash if they had more unique nuances. It's one of the main reasons people still would be fine with Isaac or Lyn, because it'd take more effort to make them generic swordsmen than to not because one is a magician first and swordsmen second and the other has a Japanese style and would be our first katana-user. It's also why Takamaru was still wanted.

the only samey sword fighters in smash are the Marths, we reached that conclusion last time

The problem was never that "there are too many swordsmen", the problem is that they all play very similar to each other, fire emblem characters especially.

How about gasp: A Grappler. An arch-type which arguably enough is only available with DK at the moment. Compared to the zoner and large disjoint gang which have more than enough representatives.

I'd argue anyone with a throw that can ground is a grappler because that's usually their best kill setup. ROB as an example.

the only fe characters with the same playstyle are the ones the game also labels as clones, Corrin, Ike and Robin play nothing like each other or like the Falchions if you ever played them

Almost every move Shulk does with the Monado, he swings it with both hands. The only moves where he isn't thrusting and swinging it with both hands are his up-tilt and down-tilt. Also, saying that Pit's swords are "actually machetes" is honestly just a cop-out answer. Also, just because Smash doesn't follow the wide variety of specific fighting styles like other games, doesn't mean there isn't any there. Truthfully compare characters like Marth and Shulk and tell me they use their swords exactly alike.

If you tell me that Marth, Ike, and Robin play similarly I'll tell you to see an optometrist because you need your eyes checked.

Well, something similar with all of them is that they have a charging move, a counter, good/great aerials, and all of them have a meteor(?)

I would start listing characters who also have all of those things but there are seventy characters on this roster and it's downright impossible to not share similar attack properties with somebody or other. At this point the down-B counter thing as a swordfighter exclusive is disingenuous to add because Sakurai has a fetish for giving those to anybody and everybody.

I guess you're right, almost all the non echo newcomers have a counter or something similar to it.

Dante: Gun + Swordsman (Something Smash doesn't have. No Joker doesn't count.) Chrono: Katana user who can also use lightning (Something Smash doesn't have) Sora: Magician who can use his key-shaped blade as a gun (Something Smash doesn't have) Travis Touchdown: Uses a combination of swordsmanship with a lightsabre/bat/neon light and wrestling (Something Smash doesn't have) 2B: Dual wield swordsman whose swords float in the air, can create additional swords using light and uses robotic machinery (Definitely something Smash doesn't have) Isaac: Magician who can use earth-based magic, stop time, use plants, manifest the force and make blades of fire rain out of the sky (Something Smash doesn't have) Lyn: Uses a katana and can move fast enough to turn invisible (Something Smash doesn't have) Takamaru: Katana user who can throw knives and windmill blades (Something Smash doesn't have) Lloyd Irving: Dual wield swordsman who has brazen dive attacks and can summon tornados (Something Smash doesn't have) Erdrick: Swordsman who uses a broadsword can shoot fire (A character with panned reception because it's something Smash has plenty of) Byleth: Swordsman who uses a broadsword (A character people are hoping isn't in because this is absolutely something Smash is flooded by) IDK, biggest takeaway is that Smash fans want to see actually new, interesting ways to use a sword.

I don't know why people want Banjo in this game, what does he have to offer that isn't already in the game? He punches and rolls? Gee, never seen that before. He has a bird companion who attacks and carries him for assist attacks and moves? Geez, what a Duck Hunt Dog rip-off. Shoots eggs? Please, we don't need another projectile character in this game.

I think Dante, 2B and Sora are among some of the most interesting ways for a sword fighter to be added in Smash. They're unique enough that there wouldn't be much of a comparison with other characters.

It's almost like this is completely my point. Ignore for a second that the character is wielding the "dreaded sword" and look at everything else they do. Shulk: Manado Arts that alter his stats, sword has a special hitbox that extends and hits for extra damage. Cloud: Really wide sword that he swings like it weighs nothing, Limit Breaks that power-up his special moves. Ike: Swings his giant sword in big, powerful arcs Robin: Has a variety of magic tomes with limited uses, same for sword. Corrin: Uses a variety of dragon transformations for extended range and moves. Meat Knight: Extremely fast sword swings and a variety of aerial based swings. Link: Uses a vast variety of ranged projectiles. Looking and judging at characters just on a surface level because of a weapon they use is stupid. Stop it.

I'll give you this, for some reason, I was thinking he just steadied his arm with the other like Ike did. Still wish he swung it as if it was a bit lighter like in the games, though. The commitment necessary made him way worse than he should have been in SSB4.

Especially when nearly every punch is either a standard jab or an upwards uppercut and a ton punchers just have a down smash that kicks/punches in front of them and then a second kick/punch behind them.

There are also plenty of backhands, slaps, collarbone breaks, palm strikes and the like in Smash. This is a ridiculous strawman because there is plenty of variety in the way they punch in Smash, as well as how they kick. Sakurai has placed plenty of legitimate street fighting and martial arts moves into the game, too, even with Diddy Kong's forward tilt. I'd just like to see the same level of creativity in the way the swords are utilized in the game, which I personally don't feel is as elaborate as they could be. I don't see why that's such a problem to feel that way. Also yes, I would actually like to see more down smashes that only hit in front, like Lucas and Mewtwo do, because too many of them follow that shtick. One of my favorite things about PM Ike is that they made the second hit of down smash optional, which allows for a lot more interesting properties.

I have one fear and it's Rex getting in with the same VA as XC2. How does everyone in that game do a fine job but then they got a guy who literally cannot emote as the protagonist.

Again, that is my point. Just as it's stupid to look at every punch as "some jab" or "some uppercut", it's just as willy as saying every sword swing is "standard arc". When you actually look at all the ways sword characters actually fight, there are actually a lot of differences, some more subtle than others and that honestly goes for all types of fighters. The game has over 70 characters for christ's sake Yes, they aren't all "unique fighting styles based on an actually real-life techniques" (at least that I'm aware of), but it honestly really comes across as you stretching really hard to make a point.

I want more weirdos that don't fall into any current archetype

yeah man #steve4life ✊😌

Almost every heavy character has a grab attack though? Not really seeing what the classification is for.

That's why I said arguably. Just having a grab attack does not make you a grappler, I gave DK the benefit of doubt given he has cargo throw, which makes grabbing an a lot more central part of his gameplan. Smash lacks a grappler - a traditional one. And I can't see why.

Could you not Argue that what Dedede and Kirby can do by inhaling functions similarly?